I am running a pfSense Router and Firewall now (since Oct 2021) and using my ORBI RBK50 in AP mode (Router Firmware Version V2.7.3.22). I have been trying to find a way to disable the UPnP/IGD functions on this device to no avail. Everything that I read states that UPnP is disabled when the router is in AP mode. I disagree.I am setting up a Smart Home environment using Home Assistant software - and it is detecting the ORBI as a UPnP device. I know that is not coming from pfSense - as when I enable it there - Home Assistant sees it as such. (see the image) - but Home Assistant is not able to connect to the ORBI for UPnP. This fails. It says to check the logs - which is not helpful - as if ORBI was not sending out the signal -- Home Assistant would not see it. I have changed the router back to Router Mode and disabled it from there - and then switched it back to AP mode. The Home Assistant software still sees it - which means that it still broadcasting a signal to my home network. How do I stop this?

(I enjoy the community forum because time after time topics come up which expose how little I know about networking....) My impression is that question involves two topics: Does putting an Orbi router in Access Point mode eliminate the UPnP capability in the sense that devices on the LAN are able to participate in UPnP with the internet. (This is a topic of much interest, and it appears that the general consensus is "Don't do this unless you must do it.")Yes. When the Orbi is in AP mode, it has no direct contact with the internet, and thus it cannot enable devices on the LAN to open ports using the Internet Gateway Protocol (IGP). Only the actual router that connects to the ISP is capable of enabling UPnP to the internet. Does the Orbi device itself participate in UPnP? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Plug_and_Play )i.e. Does it send SSDP "Alive" messages? Does it act as an SSDP "Control Point"?This is a much tougher problem to address. After searching (and searching) for tools to discover UPnP devices on my local network, the only thing I have come up with so far is gupnp-tools for Linux. Have been running gssdp-discover for quite some time. So far, it has found: Sony DVD Player Sonos One speaker Plex Multimedia Server But, so far the Orbi router has not been "discovered."This could be because my Orbi has to be in router mode (ISP device is a plain modem). And, UPnP is not enabled on my Orbi router. I have another Orbi that is connected to the primary LAN for testing. It is also in router mode and has not been "discovered" so far. (how long do these tools take to find UPnP devices?) I suppose it could be put into AP mode as a test. So, after much typing, I have no method to 'turn off' UPnP on the Orbi in AP mode.

p.s. found an app for Android. called UPnP Scanner. It reports the same three devices on the network (DVD player, Sonos speaker, Plex Multimedia Server). The common thread is that none of these apps can scan the Orbi WAN (public) interface.

(Damn, this is fun!) After placing that test Orbi router in Access Point mode, (TaDa!) NOW the UPnP Scanner app "sees it": Netgear,Inc NETGEAR Orbi DesktopAC3000 Router RBR50 Friendly name: RBR50 (AP) Device Type: urn:schemas-pnp-org-device:WFADevice: 1 Base URL: http://192.168.1.80:56688 PresentationURL: http://www.orbilogin.net Services: urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:Layer3Forwarding: 1 I logged into the router to double check: On the web interface, the UPnP menu option is greyed out. As the Orbi is not acting as a "router", the function to enable UPnP is not accessible. My guess is that you have discovered a Bug. When the router is in "router" mode with UPnP disabled, then it does not respond to discovery probes. When in AP mode, it does respond but cannot actually "do anything." I have a feeling that this might have to do with changes made to the eth0 interface because of the change in mode. There's a lot that is different based on mode. Router mode is Layer 3 (IP). Broadcast packets do not pass through the Orbi WAN port in either direction. AP mode is Layer2 (ethernet), so broadcast packets do pass through in both directions. Waaay over my head.

I am glad you think this is "FUN" - LoL I agree - it is a BUG - and given that these puppies (when I bought them - were considered "Premium" devices) this concerns me that something this simple is overlooked. If it was DISABLED in Router Mode - it should not start listening or broadcasting on UPnP port when the mode changes. Given that this the RBR50 / RBS50 are both basically running OpenWRT (limited and lots of things disabled) - they need to fix this or allow OpenWRT to create a Firmware which gives access to Everything. Who even knows if NETGEAR reads these posts and will even address this - probably blow it off, given they have their "SHINY NEW WIFI 6" Orbis out there now...and in their lameness do not offer an UPGRADE discount to us other ORBI owners - especially with the CHIP SHORTAGES. Just expect us to TRASH 'EM and spend another $400-600 to upgrade. So NETGEAR - I ask - how do we fix this???

bearhntr wrote: ...... So NETGEAR - I ask - how do we fix this??? Considering the clusterf**k frenzy going on with Orbi AX model issues, my guess is that this UPnP issue is not likely to rate in the "top 10" for Netgear engineering. Software engineers do not spend time browsing the forums, so no one going to look at it until support makes a case to management that the problem needs to be fixed. To "complete the test", I put the Test Orbi back into router mode and verified: When UPnP is not enabled, a UPnP scanner connected to the test Orbi (not the primary network) did not detect any UPnP function. When UPnP is enabled, the UPnP scanner detected the Orbi router as an Internet Gateway Device, which it is when enabled.(Note that this is different than the report on the Orbi when in AP mode, which did not claim to be an IGD.) This is where my lack of network sophistication comes in. What damage does this UPnP flaw do? Will devices on the network not be able to find media servers? Will media servers not be able to announce themselves on the internet (if that's what the user wants and the primary router supports that capability)? I think damage is the key element. an explanation of how this affects operation.

ORBI RKB50 and UPnP/IGD - Broadcasting in AP mode

11 Replies

CrimpOn
Guru - Experienced User
May 10, 2022
(I enjoy the community forum because time after time topics come up which expose how little I know about networking....)

My impression is that question involves two topics:

Does putting an Orbi router in Access Point mode eliminate the UPnP capability in the sense that devices on the LAN are able to participate in UPnP with the internet. (This is a topic of much interest, and it appears that the general consensus is "Don't do this unless you must do it.")
Yes. When the Orbi is in AP mode, it has no direct contact with the internet, and thus it cannot enable devices on the LAN to open ports using the Internet Gateway Protocol (IGP). Only the actual router that connects to the ISP is capable of enabling UPnP to the internet.

Does the Orbi device itself participate in UPnP? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Plug_and_Play )
i.e. Does it send SSDP "Alive" messages? Does it act as an SSDP "Control Point"?
This is a much tougher problem to address. After searching (and searching) for tools to discover UPnP devices on my local network, the only thing I have come up with so far is gupnp-tools for Linux. Have been running gssdp-discover for quite some time. So far, it has found:

Sony DVD Player

Sonos One speaker

Plex Multimedia Server

But, so far the Orbi router has not been "discovered."
This could be because my Orbi has to be in router mode (ISP device is a plain modem). And, UPnP is not enabled on my Orbi router.

I have another Orbi that is connected to the primary LAN for testing. It is also in router mode and has not been "discovered" so far. (how long do these tools take to find UPnP devices?) I suppose it could be put into AP mode as a test.

So, after much typing, I have no method to 'turn off' UPnP on the Orbi in AP mode.
- CrimpOn
  Guru - Experienced User
  May 10, 2022
  p.s. found an app for Android. called UPnP Scanner. It reports the same three devices on the network (DVD player, Sonos speaker, Plex Multimedia Server).
  
  The common thread is that none of these apps can scan the Orbi WAN (public) interface.
  - CrimpOn
    Guru - Experienced User
    May 11, 2022
    (Damn, this is fun!)
    
    After placing that test Orbi router in Access Point mode, (TaDa!) NOW the UPnP Scanner app "sees it":
    
    Netgear,Inc NETGEAR Orbi DesktopAC3000 Router RBR50
    
    Friendly name: RBR50 (AP)
    
    Device Type: urn:schemas-pnp-org-device:WFADevice: 1
    
    Base URL: http://192.168.1.80:56688
    
    PresentationURL: http://www.orbilogin.net
    
    Services: urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:Layer3Forwarding: 1
    
    I logged into the router to double check: On the web interface, the UPnP menu option is greyed out. As the Orbi is not acting as a "router", the function to enable UPnP is not accessible.
    
    My guess is that you have discovered a Bug. When the router is in "router" mode with UPnP disabled, then it does not respond to discovery probes. When in AP mode, it does respond but cannot actually "do anything." I have a feeling that this might have to do with changes made to the eth0 interface because of the change in mode. There's a lot that is different based on mode. Router mode is Layer 3 (IP). Broadcast packets do not pass through the Orbi WAN port in either direction. AP mode is Layer2 (ethernet), so broadcast packets do pass through in both directions. Waaay over my head.

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ORBI RKB50 and UPnP/IGD - Broadcasting in AP mode