Nest Wifi VLAN Connection issues

Question

Apologies for the long first post but I have fallen down a rabbit hole and started something I wish I hadn't.

Been having issues with Nest Wifi dropping. Contacted Google Support who said it was a Double NAT issue. I needed to plug Nest into a Switch between my router/modem and Nest. Also had to buy a BT Business Hub as they said Hub needed to be put in Bridge mode in order that it acted only as a modem. Put PPoE settings into Nest and away we went.

Still had issues so went back to them. Apparently BT as well as most UK ISP's use VLAN Tagging. So Google told me switch needed to be managed. So bought GS324T. This is where I knew it would become difficult as I had no idea how to configure the switch. I contacted Google support again. I have Google One for storage so getting help is very quick.

They were very helpful but basically said that Nest should just plug into switch and did not need configuring.

However, they did say I needed to go onto the BT Hub AND the switch and Turn on BPDU Flooding? I have looked in the Hub and the switch. I cannot find anything on BT Hub about this. On the switch there is a section in the manual but I am not clear what I need to do. They also said I need to take the Hub out of bridge mode. However doing this gave me more connection issues.

So I have renabled Bridge mode

https://support.google.com/googlenest/answer/9798157?hl=en

According to the above link Switch must have VLAN features which this does for Nest to be happy but it does not tell you exactly what you have to do.

I have a basic knowledge of networking but this is not something I have had to do before so some guidance would be appreciated in relation to the settings in the switch and whats needed in the configuration to allow Nest to work and give a stable connection

Thanks

schumaku · Answer

Not sure this is the appropriate community here. We could certainly help finding such configurations for 3rd party routers and the BT Internet connections where VLANs are used.

BT has different platforms and Internet connection styles - so without more details it's hard or impossible to help. Could be two wide DSL, could be FTTP/FTTC with an ONT, ...

Much better place would be the BT Community. Here a recent talk on this subject -> FTTP and Google Nest Wifi router (love the part where somebody wrote "There are numerous posts on the forum with regard to this nonsense that Google seem to be spouting as the cause for all problems. They are totally clueless." Looks like this is the root of your rabbit hole.

sjd101 wrote:
Been having issues with Nest Wifi dropping.

Not clear what you are describing here. Your Nest WiFi does run overall, and you experience WiFi drops on some/all devices, e.g. ner to the router, or ner to the sattellite units?

sjd101 wrote:
Contacted Google Support who said it was a Double NAT issue.

A WiFi system with a router can work, regardless of there is any customer sie double NAT, e.g. a BT hub and the Nest router. Unless one of these routers does work badly, the Internet connection isn't badly affected. There are some limitations in double NAT configurations, but you need this only if you run services or need direct access to some systems on your LAN direct from the Internet Double NAT does not make WiFi drop....

sjd101 wrote:
I needed to plug Nest into a Switch between my router/modem and Nest. Also had to buy a BT Business Hub as they said Hub needed to be put in Bridge mode in order that it acted only as a modem. Put PPoE settings into Nest and away we went.

This does proof my suspicion! With the BT Business Hub in transparent bridge mode, and still experiencing WiFi dropping under some conditions, ... it's not likely a problem with double NAT, or the "outer" BT Business Hub.

sjd101 wrote:
Still had issues so went back to them. Apparently BT as well as most UK ISP's use VLAN Tagging. So Google told me switch needed to be managed. So bought GS324T. This is where I knew it would become difficult as I had no idea how to configure the switch.

Appears you try to replace the BT Hub (NAT router) and the current installed BT Business Hub now.

What is coming to your house/appartement/office?

an Openreach modem (ONT), or
a Fibre Optic Broadband: Getting Connected - BT Equipment (be aware this is information from another ISP - but the port on the wall might be similar) - the interesting point is that there can be VLAN tagging required, or not...

Once you figured out what you have, and what VLAN config you need on the switch (one dedicated VLAN, one port tagged to the "Internet-side", one untagged to the Nest router) we're happy to provide some guidance.

For my part, I doubt this would magically fix these undefined WiFi dropping issues I'm afraid.

sjd201 · Answer

Firstly, this is sjd101.&nbsp; I have lost access to that account.&nbsp; I am having a nightmare with Netgear Insight as everything is connected and I didnt realise I already had an account.&nbsp; Now I just cannot access it despite resetting password so have had to open a new account just to reply.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Thank you for the really detailed response.&nbsp; I am grateful to you for taking the time to reply.&nbsp; Difficulty with what I am faced with is having 3 different companies to deal with.&nbsp; Ultimately assistance I am looking for here is with settings on the switch but there is obviously some crossover.&nbsp; I will try and respond in order of your response:&nbsp;1.&nbsp; Got BT Broadband FTTC.&nbsp; Did have a Home BT Hub but bought a Business Hub as this was one of&nbsp; fixes Google suggested having ability to put Router/Modem in bridge mode.&nbsp;2.&nbsp; Wifi ultimately works and is stable on Home Hub or Business hub on its own.&nbsp; Bought Nest to have a mesh network and improve network in the house (wish I had never bothered!).&nbsp; When you introduce Nest and connect to this network devices do not stay connected.&nbsp; Regularly get message Connected without internet.&nbsp; Spoke to Google Support and was directed to this link&nbsp;https://support.google.com/googlenest/answer/9798157?hl=en&nbsp;This is where my problems started.&nbsp; I was originally connected directly to Hub but Google suggested a managed switch so that is where I am up to.&nbsp; Was also told BT use VLAN tagging which Nest does not support hence needing a switch with VLAN features.&nbsp; So connected Nest to new GS324T switch&nbsp;3.&nbsp; I agree from what I have read re Double NAT&nbsp;4. Again I agree.&nbsp; Other than being able to implement Bridge mode which Home version cannot do all I have done is satisfy one od the criteria from Google support&nbsp;5. So set up now :I am with BT Home Broadband with a master socket accrding to your link.&nbsp; I have spoken to them about VLAN ID today but they said i had to identify it via my PC by going into network settings and apparently it was in properties oon Network Interface Card.&nbsp; I could not find the info.&nbsp; I did find the following on the BT community so would assume that this is correct but not had clarification.VLAN: 101VPI: 1VCI: 32&nbsp;BT Business Hub in bridge mode and plugged into Port 1 of switch.Nest WiFi wan into switch port 3&nbsp;&nbsp;Google support can see my network (which is a bit disconcerting) and they have confirmed VLAN tagging.&nbsp; From research the last piece of the puzzle is the set up on the switch.&nbsp; I believe thgis is the page i need to do the set up&nbsp;https://kb.netgear.com/31026/How-to-configure-a-VLAN-on-a-NETGEAR-managed-switch&nbsp;But I have no idea what to do.&nbsp; My BT modem is in Port 1 and Nest WAN goes in to Port 3 but would appreciate some guidance on how this should be set up in order the Nest can deal with VLAN tagging.&nbsp; Its not understanding what I am trying to achieve other than Google support who have said they can still see it and to solve issue they need not to see it.&nbsp; They said IP should end 1 or 254.&nbsp; Nothing else.&nbsp; Apologies for laymen explanation&nbsp;Hope you can assist with set up and again thanks for taking your time with thisSimon&nbsp;

schumaku · Answer

sjd201&nbsp;wrote:Firstly, this is sjd101.&nbsp; I have lost access to that account.&nbsp; I am having a nightmare with Netgear Insight as everything is connected and I didnt realise I already had an account.Hi Simon,&nbsp;Netgear does just use a SSO system for all applications, for Insight, for Support / MyNetgear ... one identity should be enough.&nbsp;sjd201&nbsp;wrote:1.&nbsp; Got BT Broadband FTTC.&nbsp; Did have a Home BT Hub but bought a Business Hub as this was one of&nbsp; fixes Google suggested having ability to put Router/Modem in bridge mode.&nbsp;I am with BT Home Broadband with a master socket accrding to your link.&nbsp; I have spoken to them about VLAN ID today but they said i had to identify it via my PC by going into network settings and apparently it was in properties oon Network Interface Card.&nbsp; I could not find the info.&nbsp; I did find the following on the BT community so would assume that this is correct but not had clarification.VLAN: 101VPI: 1VCI: 32FTTC is fiber to the curb, from there it's VDSL or VDSL2 on two wires. The&nbsp;VPI and VCI parameters are for ATM (as used before on ADSL for PPPoA and PPPoE), FTTC uses PTM so nothing to care about.&nbsp;You can't connect this to a whatever Ethernet port on the switch. The set-up is similar to an earlier ADSL connection (the BT Hub and Business Hub can do this, too), VDSL does just allow much more speed on the shorter telephone cables - which end on some BT equipment on thier fiber box.&nbsp;The Business Hub does act as a VDSL modem, and does handle the VLAN tagging on the Internet side. This device is certainly up2speed for the usage on the BT network.&nbsp;&nbsp;Replacing this would require yet anther VDSL/VDSL2 capable modem ... but as I said above, this can't make much sense.&nbsp;sjd201&nbsp;wrote:BT Business Hub in bridge mode and plugged into Port 1 of switch.Nest WiFi wan into switch port 3&nbsp;And here again, in my understanding the BT Business Hub does already handle the VLAN thing - in bridge mode it is intended to connect a customer supplied router without any VLAN config - all the router has to do is establish a PPPoE session with these standard logins as published: bthomehub@btbroadband.com as the username and left the password field blank.&nbsp;Does the Nest WiFi have a config option for MTU? It should ... lower it from 1500 to 1492 (8 bytes are used for the PPPoE overhead).&nbsp;There are many examples showing this is the way to go on the FTTC connections...&nbsp;sjd201&nbsp;wrote:2.&nbsp; Wifi ultimately works and is stable on Home Hub or Business hub on its own.&nbsp; Bought Nest to have a mesh network and improve network in the house (wish I had never bothered!).&nbsp; When you introduce Nest and connect to this network devices do not stay connected.&nbsp; Regularly get message Connected without internet.&nbsp;BT Business Hub in bridge mode and plugged into Port 1 of switch.Nest WiFi wan into switch port 3&nbsp;Almost convinced you don't need the switch to convert from a tagged VLAN 101 to an access port on VLAN 101/PVID 101.

sjd201 · Answer

HiHad issues as someone else set up origianal account for some access points at work and I didnt realise I was only a user rather than admin.&nbsp; All went awry when he tried to transfer it.&nbsp; Got a support ticket in so hopefully they can fix it.&nbsp;So I have read your respose and understand it. The Google support page indicates that you have to plug the nest into the WAN port of the switch but as I see it all the ports are the same. Is that right?&nbsp; Or can you configure one of the ports to act as a WAN?&nbsp;I have been onto Google support again and they said should only have Nest WAN plugged into switch.&nbsp; This works for WiFi but devices plugged into switch have no internet so thats an issue.&nbsp; Resolved that by plugging Nest WAN into modem and LAN into switch.&nbsp;So would you just plug the Nest router directly into the BT Hub via Wan and plug LAN from Nest into the switch as I described above?&nbsp; PPPoE info is in the Nest device as you described other than password field which is BT not blank.&nbsp;I cannot find anything in the config for MTU.&nbsp; Did some google research and it does not appear to be an option.&nbsp;Dont understand your last comment other than you think managed switch is not necessary with any VLAN settings?

schumaku · Answer

sjd201&nbsp;wrote:Had issues as someone else set up origianal account for some access points at work and I didnt realise I was only a user rather than admin.&nbsp; All went awry when he tried to transfer it.&nbsp; Got a support ticket in so hopefully they can fix it.Is this on a Basic or Premium Insight subscription? Then only one account exists. All devices should be registered to the same account to keep things simple, e.g. for taking to support or claim hardware warranty.&nbsp;If this is an Insight Pro environment, there is a more complex roles concept starting with the Pro Admin (a single technical role, held e.g. by your Insight supplier or installer, we use e.g. insightpro@supplier.abc), an Insight Organisation Owner (as there can be many organizations&nbsp;managed, also a technical role, like CIO@customer.xyz), multiple Insight Manager (personal roles, like yourname@customer.xyz and/or a shared role for the supplier like support@supplier.abc). All technical roles should point to email aliases and distribution lists - never to a single personal account. Trouble is that most businesses don't have any working policies on IT processes...so this is where problems are caused when people are doing any kind of registrations for a multi-user-business on personal business accounts or worse private accounts.&nbsp;It's technically possible to include Insight devices registered to another owner account into the Insight environment, unless these are already insight managed under that other account.&nbsp;That's enough on Insight excursions for now - convinced Netgear is able to assist for merging accounts&nbsp;or transferring&nbsp;ownerships to the same organisation.&nbsp;sjd201&nbsp;wrote:So I have read your respose and understand it. The Google support page indicates that you have to plug the nest into the WAN port of the switch but as I see it all the ports are the same. Is that right?&nbsp; Or can you configure one of the ports to act as a WAN?Whatever you have read here. Depending on a switch config, a port could have some role based on the switch VLAN/port/routing/whatever config. Per se, a switch does not have a WAN port.&nbsp;sjd201&nbsp;wrote:I have been onto Google support again and they said should only have Nest WAN plugged into switch.&nbsp; This works for WiFi ...&nbsp;So this is just:&nbsp;BT Business Hub (bridge mode) &lt;-&gt; Switch &lt;-&gt; Nest Router WAN &lt;-&gt; WiFi&nbsp;Great, so your Nest router and WiFi system does work to this point as expected, isn't it?&nbsp;So it's time to streamline things:&nbsp;Confirm at this point there is no VLAN configuration for VLAN 110 with a dedicated port [T]agged to VLAN 110 (no other VLAN), and a dedicated [U]ntagged port for VLAN 110/PIVD 110 ... that's what users with direct Fiber/Ethernet connections have to do to connect any user-supplied router. You don't have to do this at all:&nbsp;The BT Business Hub does handle the BT Internet VLAN part for you also in Bridge mode.&nbsp;Reduce your set-up by removing the switch from the Internet-side of things:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;BT Business Hub &lt;-&gt; Nest Router WAN &lt;-&gt; WiFi&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;I'm convinced your WiFi will continue to work as expected.&nbsp;sjd201&nbsp;wrote:&nbsp;... but devices plugged into switch have no internet so thats an issue.&nbsp; Resolved that by plugging Nest WAN into modem and LAN into switch.Here I begin to understand where your network issues are coming from. Why on earth is the idea coming from connecting different networks onto one (I assume non-configured!) switch, which out of the box has a plain L2 switch functionality?&nbsp;If you would like to have TWO networks on your switch - these are the BT-side Internet and your LAN - the switch must be configured accordingly for handling two networks as indicated above, into two VLANs: Two ports for the WAN/Internet, one tagged, one untagged; and all others for your LAN.&nbsp;But here again, I'm convinced this isn't required at all - because WiFi will run well (as long as you don't connect the BT Internet network and the LAN onto the same plain L2 switch....).&nbsp;Connect your switch only to the router LAN port as it is. And it will serve you well....&nbsp;And nothng else must be ever connected to that BT Hub...&nbsp;sjd201&nbsp;wrote:So would you just plug the Nest router directly into the BT Hub via Wan and plug LAN from Nest into the switch as I described above?&nbsp; PPPoE info is in the Nest device as you described other than password field which is BT not blank.Yes, as explained several times now.&nbsp;sjd201&nbsp;wrote:I cannot find anything in the config for MTU.&nbsp; Did some google research and it does not appear to be an option.Oh well, can't find anything, too - guess Google Nest WiFi does derive some MTU based on the connection type and/or testing.&nbsp;sjd201&nbsp;wrote:Dont understand your last comment other than you think managed switch is not necessary with any VLAN settings?Re-read this post from the top again.

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Nest Wifi VLAN Connection issues

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