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Devices connected to satellites have bad latency. Router traffic is fine.
Hey everyone,
I have had an Orbi RBK853 for just over a year now. Been solid thus far, except for the past week. Recently, any devices connected via a satellite - both via ethernet and wirelessly - have had terrible latency and intermittent to persistent packet loss. My average latency to my gateway is 200ms-500ms with a DNS latency of 500ms-750ms. I have also verified that the latency exists in loaded and unloaded circumstances as well as when uploading data.
I have been able to pinpoint this problem with tools like WifFiman, which let me quickly see what access point a device is currently connected to. When troubleshooting these latency issues, I noticed that when devices are connected to the router, the RBR piece, latency remains perfect - 3ms-4ms to gateway and 17ms-22ms to 8.8.8.8 for example. This leads me to think its something with the backhaul. Devices on the network only experience latency issues when connected via satellite.
For my troubleshooting, I have tried:
- Power cycling all devices (Router, satellite, modem)
- New coax between home coax port and ISP modem
- New Cat5e cable between ISP modem and RBR router
- Re-synced satellites with router via button on the back of each device
- Changed broadcast channel to the least congested in my area
- Manually updated firmware to V7.2.7.15 via Netgear downloads
- Was running V7.2.6.31
- Also tried to rollback to V7.2.6.21
- Removed connected devices one by one while monitoring latency
- Hoped to maybe find a device that was loading the network
- Changed the network passkey and readded all devices to establish new security
- Changed backhaul password and resynced devices via Orbi web GUI
- Called ISP for a ping - 6kb of data took 33ms roundtrip. This means that the issue is with my equipment.
When I unplug all the satellites and all traffic goes through the router, everything runs fine. As soon as the satellites are in the equation and a device connects, their observed latency goes up. I feel like its a backhaul issue, but the Orbi web GUI says the backhaul status is good. I am kinda at my wits end. Anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks!
8 Replies
I factory reset my first satellite and now I cannot get it to resync. Doesn't matter if I sync via web gui or buttons on my router.
I am in a perpetual sync failure loop.
What is the Mfr and model# of the Internet Service Providers modem/ONT the NG router is connected too?
Be sure your using a good quality LAN cable between the modem and router. CAT6A STP is recommended.What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router 📡 and satellite(s)🛰️? 30 feet or more is recommended in between RBR 📡 and RBS 🛰️ to begin with depending upon building materials when wired or wirelessly connected.
https://kb.netgear.com/31029/Where-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite 🛰Does this happen with the RBS turned OFF?
What channel configurations are currently set on the router?Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?
Be sure to disable any MAC Address randomizers on phones and pads while at home:
https://community.netgear.com/kb/en-orbi-knowledge-sharing/netgear-mobile-applications-and-androidapplewindows-devices-faq/2457046Has a power off for 1 minute then back ON with the ISP modem and router and satellite(s) been performed since last update?
Be sure to restart your network in this sequence:
Turn off and unplug modem.
Turn off router and computers.
Plug in and turn on modem. Wait 2 minutes for it to connect.
Turn on the router and wait 2 minutes for it to connect.
Turn on computers and rest of network.
Has a factory reset and setup from scratch been performed since last FW update?Hey there!
My modem is a Technicolor CGA4234 - Supplied by my ISP Breezeline. It is a DOCSIS 3.1 modem.
My home is 1700sq feet and 3 stories. I have one satellite on each floor. (I recognize this may be closer than 30ft as a crow flies, but this configuration has worked flawlessly for a year. MY expect result has been proven to be achievable)
When RBS devices are turned off, I do not experience any latency. In this configuration, all traffic is running through the router
2.4ghz is set to choose its broadcast channel automatically. My 5ghz channel is set to 40, the channel with the least congestion in my area. I see 12 total interfering broadcasts via WiFiman, NOT including signals broadcasted from my equipment (4 total)
There are no MAC randomizers connected to this network
I have performed countless reboots of the networking equipment. I will try once more with your suggested steps.
I have performed a FW update, I am about to try a factory reset.
Will check back in tonight with results! Thanks!
So you have a Gateway router at the ISP level. This would be a double NAT (two router) condition which isn't recommended. This would be a double NAT condition which isn't recommended. https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT
https://kb.netgear.com/30187/How-to-fix-issues-with-Double-NAT
Couple of options,
1. Configure the modem for transparent bridge or modem only mode. Then use the NG router in router mode. You'll need to contact the ISP for help and information in regards to the modem being bridged correctly.
2. If you can't bridge the modem, disable ALL wifi radios on the modem, configure the modems DMZ/ExposedHost or IP Pass-Through for the IP address the NG router gets from the modem. https://kb.netgear.com/25891/DMZ-on-NETGEAR-routers
https://kb.netgear.com/24086/How-do-I-set-up-a-default-DMZ-server-on-my-Nighthawk-router
3. Or disable all wifi radios on the modem and connect the NG router to the modem, LAN to LAN configure AP mode on the NG router.
https://kb.netgear.com/20927/How-do-I-change-my-NETGEAR-router-to-AP-mode
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-WIFI-6-AX-AND-Wi-Fi-6E-AXE/Procedure-for-Factory-reset-of-RBS850/m-p/2367505/highlight/true#M53985
Try option #2 first...2ndly, your home maybe a bit too small to have the RBR and two RBS deployed. You maybe oversaturating the home and system with too much wifi: https://youtu.be/UR0viMLISz4
30 feet distances in between the RBR and RBS is starting.
I recommend that you turn OFF one RBS and test with just one RBS and see how the system works for you.
Try channels 1 and 40 on the RBR.
Great description. A latency change from under 20ms to 200 ms is not trivial. It is not clear (to me) that the WiFiman app describes which specific WiFi access point a device is using. (The app is really interesting. It is probably clear from the Orbi web or app interface how the test device is connected.)
The focus on the WiFi backhaul link seems reasonable. I keep a 100 ft. Ethernet cable on hand (under $20 on Amazon) to perform random experiments. It would be interesting to see what happens if one of the satellite is connected to the router with a 'wired' connection. i.e. temporarily plug one end of the Ethernet cable into a router LAN port, run it through the house, up the stairs, etc. and connect to a satellite LAN port. After the satellite connection changes from WiFi 5G to 'Wired', what happens to the latency?
Page 145 of the user manual
(https://www.downloads.netgear.com/files/GDC/RBK852/RBK852_UM_EN.pdf)
indicates that the default channel used for WiFi backhaul is:
Unlike the user facing 5G WiFi channel, there is no option to change the backhaul channel.
While the signal strength appears to be strong enough for the system to recognize a "Good" connection, Orbi routers do not provide information about the performance of the backhaul connection. (My ancient RBR50 had - at one time before Netgear took it away - a command line method to display the current WiFi Link Rate between router and each satellite. The AX product never provided command line access to the Orbi router.)
One hypothesis could be that recently some neighbor installed a WiFi system that is using the same 5G WiFi frequency as your Orbi WiFi backhaul. (The WiFiman app might be useful here.)
A latency change from under 20ms to 200 ms is not trivial.
Thanks for taking the time to answer.
The latency combined with the packet loss is certainly more than trivial. It is limiting my wife ability to do work from home effectively.
I am beyond frustrated at Netgear that my $800usd mesh system CANNOT change the backhaul channel. This is a la John Deere and right to repair as far as I'm concerned.
Regardless, I am not certain it is from a neighbors wifi. First of all, my latency issues began suddenly. It was not iterative as one would expect. I would almost expect something malicious to be installed at a neighbors in order to achieve this congestion. Furthermore, when rebooting a satellite, like unplugging/plugging, upon reset, device latency is great for about 5 minutes. After the satellite 'warms up', the latency issues return. If it were congestioon based, I would expect persistent latency at all times.
What I haven't done is run a 100ft ethernet cord. Making a wired backhaul might fix the solution.
Lastly, I have not performed a factory reset. I will probably do that after replying to this message and check back in. Thanks again for the suggestions! Off to continue troubleshooting!
ps. I am aware this response may seem defensive, apologies. I am just beyond frustrated with the quality and configurability of this very expensive networking equipment.
