RBR850 Continually Reboots after Firmware Upgrade V7.2.6.21_5.0.20

Question

I have an RBR850 with two satellites.&nbsp; The two satellites are using wired backhaul here is the setupISP--&gt;Router/FW (DHCP)--&gt;Managed Switch--&gt;RBR850, RBS850 and RBS850 all on separate ports on the switchRBR in AP modeI can access all 3 devices via their web interfaces on local 192.168 addresses.&nbsp;All have connected devices on both 2.4 and 5.0 bandsI have upgraded to the newest firmware&nbsp;V7.2.6.21_5.0.20 on all three.&nbsp; (The RBR kept rebooting so I factory wiped all three and started over but now I'm thinking it wasn't directly the firmware)&nbsp;RBSs are both stable and remain up.&nbsp;Here is where it gets crazy to me:&nbsp;If I plug the RBR into the switch with the yellow "Internet" port on the RBR it is stable but via the web GUI it shows no satellites&nbsp;connected and only a dozen or so devicesIf I plug the RBR into the switch on one of its 4 LAN ports (how it was working for a year prior to firmware upgrade) it will continually reboot.&nbsp; I can see this via a continual ping test and loss of GUI Web access.&nbsp; However, when it is up it shows&nbsp; both satellites&nbsp;connected and 30+ devices.I'm walking away for a while with it plugged into the "Internet" port, at least its up and running but feels wrong.Anyone seen something similar or have suggestions?&nbsp;&nbsp;

FURRYe38 · Answer

The Internet port is required in router or AP mode for the RBR to work correctly.&nbsp;
What brand and model is this switch?&nbsp;
Be sure that the RBS are ethernet connected to the back for the RBR or with the switch connected to the back of the RBR then RBS connected to the switch in this configuration:
https://kb.netgear.com/000051205/What-is-Ethernet-backhaul-and-how-do-I-set-it-up-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-System 📡 ‌‌🛰️

CrimpOn · Answer

vader716&nbsp;wrote:
I'm walking away for a while with it plugged into the "Internet" port, at least its up and running but feels wrong

We are seeing more posts on the forum lately about Orbi routers in AP mode with all units connected directly to a switch that is between the Orbi router and the ISP router.&nbsp; As FURRYe38 commented, Orbi&nbsp; routers expect that Orbi satellites will be connected directly to the router, either (a) using a 5G WiFi connection with a hidden SSID, or (b) using an Ethernet connection.&nbsp; It does not expect that satellites can be found through the WAN port.&nbsp;
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Having everything connected to the switch (ISP router, Orbi router, Orbi satellites, possibly other user devices) creates an IP subnet where "lots of things work"***(see note), but the router cannot gather information from the satellites because "they're not connected": not through WiFi and not through one of the LAN ports.
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Moving the switch from "in front of" to "in back of" the Orbi router will create a working solution:

With the Orbi router connected directly to the ISP router with the WAN port, everything will flow through the Orbi router.
With satellites connected to the Orbi through the switch, traffic will flow in a way that the Orbi expects.
User devices connected ot the switch will be accessible from everywhere because this remains one IP subnet.

Because this is a managed switch, it would be possible to manufacture a similar solution using port based VLANs.&nbsp; i.e.

In addition to the WAN connection to the switch, also connect one router LAN port to the switch.
Create a port based VLAN consisting of the ports that the router and the satellites are connected to.
This will result in all traffic from the satellites passing through the switch to the Orbi and then to the rest of the network.

Personally, I would just move the switch.&nbsp; Unless, of course, the Orbi is not physically located near the ISP router and the switch.&nbsp; Then things are a bit more complicated because there is probably only one Ethernet cable from the switch location to the Orbi router location. (there is solution for that involving VLANs as well, but it requires another swtich.)
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*** Things "work" because the Ethernet hardware in the ISP router, Orbi router, Orbi satellites, and the switch "learn" where to reach devices by their hardware MAC address.&nbsp; Ethernet switch modules have internal address tables, often capable of thousands of MAC addresses.&nbsp; In an IP subnet, data packets are addressed by the hardware MAC of the machine they are intended for.&nbsp; It goes something like this:

Send a packet to IP xx.xx.xx.xx
OK, is this on our IP subnet, or is it "somewhere else"?

If it is on our subnet, do I know the MAC address?&nbsp; If not, use ARP to find it.
If it is not on our subnet, address it to the gateway and let the router deal with it.

Send the packet.

All this happens at the hardware level. User programs think only in terms of IP addresses.&nbsp; The hardware takes care of all the details.
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CrimpOn · Answer

One situation that has come up on the forum is adapting network gear to existing in-house wiring. It is now common to find a house "pre-wired" with Ethernet jacks located in many rooms of the house, each with a single Ethernet cable running to a patch panel in some location.&nbsp; Often this location was chosen because at the time it seemed a good compromise between cost, ease of installation, and other factors.&nbsp; The installation often included coaxial cable to bring the Internet Service Provider signal to the patch panel.&nbsp; (Optical fiber is a relatively recent development. Often WiFi was limited to 2.4G which has greater coverage area than more modern 5G - and now 6G.)
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From posts on the forum, it has become clear that some users do not find the patch panel location suitable for their WiFi router.&nbsp; They want to place the WiFi router somewhere else and also locate satellite units in other locations.&nbsp; Alas, there is only one Ethernet cable from the patch panel to each location. While it may have been routine to install cable when the walls were open, retrofitting more cables can be a nightmare (expensive, disruptive, etc.)
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This can lead to situations like this discussion.&nbsp; Place the ISS router and a switch at the patch panel and connect everything in the house to the switch.&nbsp; Netgear's Orbi product, however, is not designed for this.&nbsp; (Maybe other products are?)
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There was a discussion on the forum about how to use one Ethernet cable to carry:

The ISP connection from the patch panel to the router WAN port, and
The router connection from LAN ports to satellites

The concept is illustrated with this diagram:

The managed switch at the patch panel has two port based VLANs:

VLAN1 connects the ISP router and any miscellaneous devices around the house.
VLAN2 connects the Orbi satellites to the swith

There is one "Tagged" VLAN port, which carries VLAN1 and VLAN2.
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At the WiFi router location, there is a second managed switch with two port based VLANs:

VLAN1 carries traffic to the router WAN port
VLAN2 carries LAN traffic destined for Orbi satellites

There is one "Tagged" VLAN port, which carries VLAN1 and VLAN2 traffic.&nbsp; In addition, if the user desires, miscellaneous devices can be connected to this second switch as Port Based VLAN (1 or 2. Doesn't really matter.)
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The "magic" comes from VLAN tagging.&nbsp; Once the Ethernet switches have used ARP to discover where everything is, they know which port to use to reach every device.&nbsp; None of the devices themselves are aware of the VLANs.&nbsp; If a packet comes into the switch on a VLAN1 port, it can only go to other VLAN1 ports. (Same for VLAN2)&nbsp; So, packets from the ISP router will never go directly to Orbi satellites, because they are on VLAN2.
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plemans · Answer

You can't (without issues) do it the way you have it set.&nbsp;
It should go modem/gateway---&gt;RBR (into its wan port----&gt;switch/satellites.&nbsp;
If you're going to put the switch before the RBR, then the satellites need to direct connect to the RBR's lan ports. Or a 2nd switch used connected after the RBR for the satellites to connect it (if you're needing more ports)

vader716 · Answer

I think this is close to my solution minus the VLAN tagging which I can implement.&nbsp; Apologies for the rudimentary diagram but here is the current network topology.I do not understand why I should/would put an ORBI in front of either the first managed switch in the basement or worse yet the first device after the ISP.&nbsp;&nbsp;With ARP and IP addressing I'm unclear why RBS 1 and 2 can't reliably find RBR.&nbsp;&nbsp;As of now all three APs are working and passing wireless traffic but RBR can't "see" the RBSs in the App or Web GUI.&nbsp;I can VLAN them but it too seems odd to me.You'll notice the purple dotted line was one answer given.&nbsp; When that happens the RTR goes pink and all traffic is lost on that AP.&nbsp; Feel like that is creating a network loop and bringing a halt to traffic.

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RBR850 Continually Reboots after Firmware Upgrade V7.2.6.21_5.0.20

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