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R8000 Firmware v1.4.1.30_1.2.26 won't restore config from previous firmware
Hi guys
I've just upgraded to the latest version of the firmware for my R8000. There was lots of messing about (Netgear servers must have been busy or something) but after the firmware was appl...
So my accepted solution (NG want me to provide one), is to no longer use NG for saving lots of config as they can trash my data whenever they want and expect me to type it in again - not doing that!
Instead I'm using a Raspberry PI as a DHCP server and disabling this feature on the NG router.
That way I can properly back up the settings.
What you are saying makes perfect sense.
The whole story was as follows;
1. I backed up the Settings
2. I applied the new firmware, which reset the router back to factory settings
3. Being happy that I'd just done a backup, I just set a couple of parameters, eg, the router pw and the network names and then restored from the backup that I had taken before the upgrade
4. When the router restarted after the restore, it had gone back to factory settings, and wiped the few settings that I had applied manually. None of the fixed ip addresses, static routes, port forwarding or anything I'd setup and was present in the backup was restored.
5. No matter how many times I tried, it did the same thing.
Taking a straight memory dump of the settings is a lazy way of doing a backup. In the past this may have been acceptable but not these days.
I never assumed it would be straight memory backup, i thought it was an encrypted file which is why i couldn't read it
The settings should be dumped to say a JSON file or something so that they can be easily restored when new entries are added in the firmware
To get everything working took over 4 hours of manually inputting all of the data that I could remember I'd configured.
You don't get this with other devices, why should a router be different.
With my phone, I don't have to print out all the settings whenever there is an upgrade to the firmware/operating system, the settings are either preserved or previous backups can be restored.
This should be the same, preserve the data on upgrade or provide a mechanism to transition the data to the new firmware
As you say, with IOT, this is going to be more and more of an issue. This is certainly the reason that I have a complicated configuration (currently using Alexa, Hue, Smartthings, security cameras, the list goes on!)
Before IOT, I had a very simple configuration, but now it's really something that can't be easily manually input
Thanks for your reply, now i understand what NG have done
So my accepted solution (NG want me to provide one), is to no longer use NG for saving lots of config as they can trash my data whenever they want and expect me to type it in again - not doing that!
Instead I'm using a Raspberry PI as a DHCP server and disabling this feature on the NG router.
That way I can properly back up the settings.
Using a different DHCP server you can backup is not the complete solution. There are many more settings (Wireless, LAN, Ports, USB, etc.) that need to be saved. Some of those like the ports could be extensive.
Exactly, but I have around 60 fixed ip addresses that I'm not going to type in again.
The other settings I have, like port forwarding and the network names/passwords can be backed up using screenshots/pen & paper.
Whilst NG have a backup solution that is not reliable (which defeats the point of a back solution), I need to look elsewhere to back up the fixed ip addresses.
It's not until people raise the issue that NG will look at the 'old' backup solution they provide and update it to modern day environments where fixed ips solve lots of prblems, eg, where people have Alexa, Hue, Smartthings etc
I can't find anywhere other than here to raise the issue!
rowets wrote:
It's not until people raise the issue that NG will look at the 'old' backup solution they provide and update it to modern day environments where fixed ips solve lots of prblems, eg, where people have Alexa, Hue, Smartthings etc
I can't find anywhere other than here to raise the issue!
Well, here is not going to have that happen. Burried in the bottom of a problem a moderator might not even look at is not a good place. However, here is, https://community.netgear.com/t5/Idea-Exchange-For-Home/idb-p/idea-exchange-for-home. No guarantee that will work either but it is just possible someone who can take this up the ladder would.
The main problem in my estimation is the code itself and how created. I'd think each new router started with the old router code and followed that path. I've seen bad code and good code, and designs as well. In the cases here, I suspect it is where and how the data (settings) are stored. I suspect right after each other at a specific RAM location however that RAM location might/could change on every new release, hence the need to reset (clears NVRAM) and re-enter. Now if the new code in the firmware uses data area at the END, that might not be a problem. Somewhere inside of the old data for a location, trouble... and restoring old save configurations would just not work. Matter of fact, add even 1 byte to the executable code and if the data wasn't structured to a specific address but was directly after the executable code, trouble then would happen and a clear of NVRAM and a re-enter of all data required. Even saving in some 'readable' format might not work. First you might be able to edit it, but I'd hope it was check-summed so that couldn't happen. What happens when a new setting was added but the old settings didn't have it? Hopefully the code using it would use a default then, but who knows.
Not sure how other devices do it? Maybe they have dedicated RAM in the device so that the first thing the update would do is write the settings/data to it, install the new code, and then copy back the settings to the proper place? All part of the design.
Not sure what other vendors or 3rd party firmware creators do? If you look at http://192.168.1.1/debug.htm on your router you can see some data such as RAM used. The R8000 seems to have plenty of space left. At least mine does.
Thank you so, so much for the URL, the only places that I could find always required me to pay money to NG so I could contact them (outside of the 90 days etc).
I totally get what you are saying about even adding 1 byte to the size of the executable would screw up the backup feature between firmware versions.
With the product I work on, settings are saved and restored using JSON (something else could work equally well). The restore process is more intelligent and picks out the fields that the code knows about.
If a new field is added with a new code drop, the new code will not find the new field in the backup when doing a restore from old versions, so a sensible defualt is used instead.
This way, all old backups will work on new code versions, and any new values have sensible defaults.
This is a fairly simple pattern, and with all the clever things that the router already does, this should be childs play to implement.
Thanks again for your reply
rowets wrote:
This is a fairly simple pattern, and with all the clever things that the router already does, this should be childs play to implement.
I don't think it would be 'that simple'. Maybe for brand new routers, but not for older ones. They'd have to 'test' the old save file first, and it can be from any f/w version. Also you assume the folks doing the coding are able to do this. If a 3rd party it might be a function of how much they get paid? These folks can't 'code right' it seems. Always something breaking. Now there are complaints about Smart Connect, and others have some problems. Old problems seem to drag on and/or get worse.
There are 3 parts that are the problem here. Project Management seems to be a big part of it. They don't seem to have a handle on all the problems that exist. Support that does get the problem reports. Do they actually tell the code people and project management what needs to be fixed and HOW they recreated it? Lastly the coders. Are they competent? Can they fix the code AND verify it was fixed? I don't think so. And of course one major problem is NG's Project Management doesn't see to be 'here', nor true support people. No one seems to pickup problems, and when they do see one, they 'endorse' you to Support and open a case for you. A lot of good that has done me, I've got one on SMB 1 needing to be used to see shares (security exposue using SMB 1) since 3/31/2018. I've demonstrated the problem with screen captures and detailed info to recreate. They have CLOSED it at least 4 times on me. Last time I was communicating directly with the Taiwan support team and at one point 3 different ID's were on my PC. They saw the problem and the main contact told me he doesn't understand why SMB 1 is required. They then closed it again. I've contacted forum monitors and they are working to re-open it... Confidence I have of this being fixed, almost ZERO...
...well in my experience backups taken before V1.4.1.30_1.2.26 don't work with V1.4.1.30_1.2.26 anyway, so maybe now would be a good time to implement an improved back/restore process.
Interesting the other points you raise re Project Management etc. I've worked for big Teleco companies and what you say is so true. I've seen them focusing just on 'the bottom line sales' and outsourcing everything they can - and overall the product looses it's quality due to the high staff turnover at the outsource company. The outsource staff are always chasing the bigger salaries so they never hang around too long - the staff have told me this is simply their culture!
So as an end customer, you are dealing with a company whose staff are mainly outsorced/contractors who don't care.
This is what I'm starting to see from a customer perspective with NG
I'll add a post to the suggestions area, and thanks for the heads up on anything happening!
