Backup to USB drive fails with unknown error

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colmosiris wrote:

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CIFS is windows file sharing and it is available on the v2.  In backup jobs it is usually called "Windows/NAS (Timestamp)". 

 

Not on mine, it isn't, unless it's called something else in Services. I've got the choices of: SMB...

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SMB is the same as CIFS.

 

Browse is even greyed out if I select a USB drive. And on the v1, no, I can't. Don't know why, if you say I should be able to. When I backed up stuff to the USB drive, it all went on to the top level, which is really messy and annoying.

 

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I don't use USB drives for NAS backup.  However, I do use rsync NAS-NAS, and I did confirm that I could manually enter a path on the v1 using remote:rsync server as the NAS source, and also on the NAS destination (using share: sharename).  I am running 4.1.15-T3 on the v1 NAS.

 

TBH, this is really now just a proof of concept, as it were, rather than an actual necessity. The remaining folder is small enough to copy using the 1TB USB drive, which on past form would take about six hours. I would like to know how to copy from one NAS to another, but by the time I come to need to do it again the GUI will have changed again even from what it is now.

 

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The v1 and v2 GUIs won't be changing, as both are end-of-life products.

If you think it's worth completing the exercise, I suggest creating a small test share on both machines, doing a straight share-to-share backup (using only the share name in the path).  I could share my settings if that fails.

NFS is another protocol that is worth using - rsync is more robust on permissions/owners/file dates, but NFS is quite a bit faster.

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BTW, thanks for the heads up on Paragon. I knew of it, but didn't realise it now has verify, repair and format options. Will definitely get that, then! Am I right in thinking that the NAS doesn't like Apple's 'Mac OS Extended (Journaled)' format?

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Both the v1 and v2 documentation say they only support FAT32, NTFS, ext2, and ext3.

Thanks Stephen.

CIFS is windows file sharing and it is available on the v2.  In backup jobs it is usually called "Windows/NAS (Timestamp)". 

 

Not on mine, it isn't, unless it's called something else in Services. I've got the choices of: SMB...

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SMB is the same as CIFS.

Oh, I do love consistency!! :)

Browse is even greyed out if I select a USB drive. And on the v1, no, I can't. Don't know why, if you say I should be able to. When I backed up stuff to the USB drive, it all went on to the top level, which is really messy and annoying.

 

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I don't use USB drives for NAS backup.  However, I do use rsync NAS-NAS, and I did confirm that I could manually enter a path on the v1 using remote:rsync server as the NAS source, and also on the NAS destination (using share: sharename).  I am running 4.1.15-T3 on the v1 NAS.

Fair enough, don't know why I can't, then. Should it make any difference if I select "share: USB_HDD_1" or "USB Device: Front Port"? (I know they're technically the same thing, but obviously there must be some difference, or they wouldn't be listed separately.)

I just backed up the last folder onto the USB drive, and am now backing it up onto the v1. BUT there was an error! At least, the email, which this time actually got sent, told me so, but the file it complained about is fine, and the  whole folder has been copied. The file is an mp4 film, and is perfectly playable. It is not over 4.29GB, and it has no characters in its name apart from alpha ones. I hate it when stuff like that happens! :(

TBH, this is really now just a proof of concept, as it were, rather than an actual necessity. The remaining folder is small enough to copy using the 1TB USB drive, which on past form would take about six hours. I would like to know how to copy from one NAS to another, but by the time I come to need to do it again the GUI will have changed again even from what it is now.

 

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The v1 and v2 GUIs won't be changing, as both are end-of-life products.

Ah no, I knew that, I was talking about the GUI for whatever version I next get. If it's like the v2 one, Dashboard, I'd have to think seriously about it, because I think it's horrible. The v1 interface, FrontView, is nice, all in one box, not sprawling all over the page, and with a left-hand menu that doesn't move! Anyway, aesthetics aside,…

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If you think it's worth completing the exercise, I suggest creating a small test share on both machines, doing a straight share-to-share backup (using only the share name in the path).  I could share my settings if that fails.

 

NFS is another protocol that is worth using - rsync is more robust on permissions/owners/file dates, but NFS is quite a bit faster.

Yes, definitely, thanks, that'd be great. But talking of permissions, etc, I think they need to be sorted out first, at least on the v2. On the v1, I can login through the Finder as Guest, and I have read/write access. On the v2, I can't log in as Guest, it fails. So the ownerships &/or permissions for the two boxes are not the same, and they need to be. There's no reason why anyone logging in as Guest (because that will only ever be me) should not have full read/write access. But I don't know how to give Guest access, and I can't find anything about it in the manual. (Another reason for Guest access is that I don't get 'hidden' shares like 'admin' and 'homes', which I don't need.)

And, as an aside, but an important one, do you know why it sometimes takes so long to log in to the v2 (not the v1) via the Finder? Sometimes it can literally take minutes, even when absolutely nothing else is going on on the computer. And sometimes I need to restart the Finder, and even reboot the computer, to get it to log in at all.

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Both the v1 and v2 documentation say they only support FAT32, NTFS, ext2, and ext3.

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Ah, mea culpa! :)

The v2 manual doesn't talk about guest (or anonymous) access.  If making the share read/write for everyone doesn't do it, then perhaps create a single user account, and set up credentials on every PC.  You'll still see the home share on the v2 for that user, since the v2 firmware doesn't let you configure that.

You probably can't create a username of "guest", but you could use anonymous (or anon).

Thanks Stephen.

The v2 manual doesn't talk about guest (or anonymous) access.  If making the share read/write for everyone doesn't do it, then perhaps create a single user account, and set up credentials on every PC.  You'll still see the home share on the v2 for that user, since the v2 firmware doesn't let you configure that.

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No, it doesn't, though on the v2, there's an option of 'allow anonymous access' for each share, not for the whole box. Setting those has allowed me to log in as Guest, exactly as I wanted, so I don't see 'admin' and 'homes'. I'm assuming that's because unless there is anonymous access to at least one share, it won't allow it at all. :)

So, okay, I'm happy with the permissions and ownerships now, and AFAICT, they're the same for both boxes! :)

I've set up two shares with NFS, 'V1_SHARE' and 'V2_SHARE', and I've setup a Backup, and tested the connection, and it worked!!! :) Not as the hostname, but as the IP address. So anyway, definitely on track to try the backup now. In the share I'm copying from there's a folder with asterisks in its name, and in it are two movies, one of which is 5.34GB, and the other is 'M*A*S*H.mp4'. If it can copy these, then I'm happy, and I just wish I'd done it this way to start with! Ah well! :)

So, I'm just waiting for the final copy from the USB drive to finish, and then I can try this backup. :)

Tried the backup, and it sot of worked, and it sort of didn't.

I can see the new folder and files in the Finder window, and I can open and play them.

BUT…

"Error encountered copying data from source path /V1_SHARE/ ==> 192.168.0.4:/V2_SHARE due to permission denial on one or more files."

And the log is full of : "Permission denied" and "Operation not permitted".

The NFS settings for the source share, on the v1 are: "Default access: Read/write."

And the settings for the destination share, on the v2, are: "Share Access: Any Host - Read/Write"

Also, the file that caused the last backup to the USB drive to say it had failed, even though it hadn't, has not caused a failure when it was copied to the other NAS!

Not sure if I'm any further forward or not! :)

BTW, happy to include screenshots, but not sure how. I could use Dropbox, but I can't guarantee I'll remember to keep the images there. Is there anywhere I can upload images to?

This is the full log from the backup:

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FULL Backup started. Thu Mar 10 17:29:26 GMT 2016

Job: 001
Protocol: nfs
Source: [V1_SHARE]/
Destination: 192.168.0.4:/V2_SHARE


`./.AppleDB/log.0000000001' -> `/job_001/.AppleDB/log.0000000001'
cp: cannot create regular file `/job_001/.AppleDB/log.0000000001': Permission denied
`./.AppleDB/__db.005' -> `/job_001/.AppleDB/__db.005'
cp: cannot create regular file `/job_001/.AppleDB/__db.005': Permission denied
`./.AppleDB/__db.003' -> `/job_001/.AppleDB/__db.003'
cp: cannot create regular file `/job_001/.AppleDB/__db.003': Permission denied
`./.AppleDB/lock' -> `/job_001/.AppleDB/lock'
cp: cannot create regular file `/job_001/.AppleDB/lock': Permission denied
`./.AppleDB/db_errlog' -> `/job_001/.AppleDB/db_errlog'
cp: cannot create regular file `/job_001/.AppleDB/db_errlog': Permission denied
`./.AppleDB/__db.006' -> `/job_001/.AppleDB/__db.006'
cp: cannot create regular file `/job_001/.AppleDB/__db.006': Permission denied
`./.AppleDB/__db.002' -> `/job_001/.AppleDB/__db.002'
cp: cannot create regular file `/job_001/.AppleDB/__db.002': Permission denied
`./.AppleDB/__db.001' -> `/job_001/.AppleDB/__db.001'
cp: cannot create regular file `/job_001/.AppleDB/__db.001': Permission denied
`./.AppleDB/cnid2.db' -> `/job_001/.AppleDB/cnid2.db'
cp: cannot create regular file `/job_001/.AppleDB/cnid2.db': Permission denied
`./.AppleDB/__db.004' -> `/job_001/.AppleDB/__db.004'
cp: cannot create regular file `/job_001/.AppleDB/__db.004': Permission denied
cp: preserving times for `/job_001/.AppleDB': Permission denied
`./.DS_Store' -> `/job_001/.DS_Store'
cp: failed to preserve ownership for `/job_001/.DS_Store': Operation not permitted
`./Temporary Items/.AppleDouble/.Parent' -> `/job_001/Temporary Items/.AppleDouble/.Parent'
cp: preserving times for `/job_001/Temporary Items/.AppleDouble/.Parent': Operation not permitted
cp: preserving times for `/job_001/Temporary Items/.AppleDouble': Operation not permitted
cp: preserving times for `/job_001/Temporary Items': Operation not permitted
`./Network Trash Folder/.AppleDouble/.Parent' -> `/job_001/Network Trash Folder/.AppleDouble/.Parent'
cp: preserving times for `/job_001/Network Trash Folder/.AppleDouble/.Parent': Operation not permitted
cp: preserving times for `/job_001/Network Trash Folder/.AppleDouble': Operation not permitted
cp: preserving times for `/job_001/Network Trash Folder': Operation not permitted
`./* ASTERISK FOLDER' -> `/job_001/* ASTERISK FOLDER'
`./* ASTERISK FOLDER/M*A*S*H [1970].avi' -> `/job_001/* ASTERISK FOLDER/M*A*S*H [1970].avi'
cp: failed to preserve ownership for `/job_001/* ASTERISK FOLDER/M*A*S*H [1970].avi': Operation not permitted
`./* ASTERISK FOLDER/Skyfall [2012].mkv' -> `/job_001/* ASTERISK FOLDER/Skyfall [2012].mkv'
cp: failed to preserve ownership for `/job_001/* ASTERISK FOLDER/Skyfall [2012].mkv': Operation not permitted
cp: cannot create directory `/job_001/* ASTERISK FOLDER/.AppleDouble': File exists
cp: failed to preserve ownership for `/job_001/* ASTERISK FOLDER': Operation not permitted
`./.AppleDouble/.DS_Store' -> `/job_001/.AppleDouble/.DS_Store'
cp: failed to preserve ownership for `/job_001/.AppleDouble/.DS_Store': Operation not permitted
`./.AppleDouble/.Parent' -> `/job_001/.AppleDouble/.Parent'
cp: failed to preserve ownership for `/job_001/.AppleDouble/.Parent': Operation not permitted
cp: failed to preserve ownership for `/job_001/.AppleDouble': Operation not permitted
`./.AppleDesktop/.volinfo' -> `/job_001/.AppleDesktop/.volinfo'
cp: preserving times for `/job_001/.AppleDesktop/.volinfo': Operation not permitted
cp: preserving times for `/job_001/.AppleDesktop': Operation not permitted
cp: failed to preserve ownership for `/job_001/.': Operation not permitted


Backup failed. Thu Mar 10 17:41:49 GMT 2016.

Reason for failure:
Error encountered copying data from source path /V1_SHARE/ ==> 192.168.0.4:/V2_SHARE due to permission denial on one or more files.

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Note the "choose file" option when click on the "insert image" icon.  That uploads a local file to the forum database, so you don't need to use a web link.

l

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colmosiris wrote:

This is the full log from the backup:

 

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FULL Backup started. Thu Mar 10 17:29:26 GMT 2016

Job: 001
Protocol: nfs
Source: [V1_SHARE]/
Destination: 192.168.0.4:/V2_SHARE

...

`./* ASTERISK FOLDER' -> `/job_001/* ASTERISK FOLDER'
`./* ASTERISK FOLDER/M*A*S*H [1970].avi' -> `/job_001/* ASTERISK FOLDER/M*A*S*H [1970].avi'
cp: failed to preserve ownership for `/job_001/* ASTERISK FOLDER/M*A*S*H [1970].avi': Operation not permitted
`./* ASTERISK FOLDER/Skyfall [2012].mkv' -> `/job_001/* ASTERISK FOLDER/Skyfall [2012].mkv'
cp: failed to preserve ownership for `/job_001/* ASTERISK FOLDER/Skyfall [2012].mkv': Operation not permitted

...
Backup failed. Thu Mar 10 17:41:49 GMT 2016.

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These files copied, correct?  Though ownership was not preserved.

The hidden files (.AppleDB, etc) failed.  There is a way to remove those files from the source ( http://superuser.com/questions/306108/disable-creation-of-appledouble-files-on-mac-os-x )

Thanks Stephen.

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These files copied, correct?  Though ownership was not preserved.

 

The hidden files (.AppleDB, etc) failed.  There is a way to remove those files from the source ( http://superuser.com/questions/306108/disable-creation-of-appledouble-files-on-mac-os-x )

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Yes, they did copy. But I only know that by empirical observation, not by seeing a nice completion message! :(

I tried BlueHarvest, which does get rid of these invisible files, but it waits for them to be created, and then deletes them, rather than stopping them from being created. This means I still can't get a clean backup, or at least a clean backup which tells me it is so.

I enabled invisible files in the Finder to see what was going on, and the files are definitely created, and then deleted, and not once, but twice. There had been invisible files in the original share, but I deleted them before starting the backup for the second time, so they were definitely being created, not copied.

I don't really care about these files myself, as there are no PCs on this network, so no-one's ever gonna see them. But I do care about backups with clean completions.

What I really don't get at all, is what on earth this even has to do with Apple and OS X anyway. It's not doing the copying, which continues after the computer is switched off. Its scratch disk is not being used, and nor are its file system or OS. So it must be the NAS that's creating these files, not OS X. Mustn't it?

It appears that if you ask on Apple forums, it's Netgear's 'fault', and if you ask on Netgear forums, it's Apple's. But if it can't be fixed, that's academic!

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colmosiris wrote:

So it must be the NAS that's creating these files, not OS X. Mustn't it?

  

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OSX is creating these files on the share.  Then the NAS is unable to copy them.

There are some posts on how to prevent them (for instance here: https://community.netgear.com/t5/forums/replypage/board-id/readynas-use/message-id/105790 ).  But since I'm not an OSX user, I don't know if they are effective.

Thanks Stephen.

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OSX is creating these files on the share.  Then the NAS is unable to copy them.

I'm sorry, but I absolutely do not believe this. My computer might be amazing, but it is not magic, Arthur C Clarke notwithstanding. It is switched off. It is not plugged in. How can it possibly be creating files on the NAS? It can't, it just can't. The NAS is doing it, and it is really annoying, to say the least.

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There are some posts on how to prevent them (for instance here: https://community.netgear.com/t5/forums/replypage/board-id/readynas-use/message-id/105790 ).  But since I'm not an OSX user, I don't know if they are effective.

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I specifically posted this question on this part of the forum, because it's about using ReadyNASes in OS X. No offence meant, but is there anyone here who does know about such things? BTW, that link doesn't work, it just takes me to a page to reply to my own message!

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colmosiris wrote:

BTW, that link doesn't work, it just takes me to a page to reply to my own message!

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Sorry, this is the link I meant to cut/paste: http://mycyberuniverse.com/mac-os/find-and-remove-ds_store-and-appledouble.html

You see that it (and many other similar posts) all say that OSX created these problem files in the share when you copied the main files to the NAS from the mac.

There are some suggestions there on how to prevent them from being formed in the first place.

Thanks Stephen. Sorry for the delay, I've been otherwise occupied for a few days!

Anyway, I still do not understand how my computer (the Mac) can create files on another computer (the NAS), when it (the Mac) is switched off. And until I understand that, nothing else makes sense. I'm in touch with the chap who makes BlueHarvest, as he is a Mac person, so perhaps he knows what's going on here, and can help me get to the bottom of it. Otherwise, it feels a bit like I'm asking questions in English, and getting answers back in French, only some of which I understand! (I do appreciate you're trying to help here, but I'm very frustrated at the apparent complete lack of Mac support. And as for how these NASes operate in different (Mac) user accounts, there's no consistency at all!)

Also, as I still don't believe a word of this, I'm going to try my own experiment. I'm going to borrow a Windows PC, which has never been a Mac in its life, download a movie (on a different network), and then put it up on the NAS, on this network. I shall do this both with the Mac switched on and connected to the LAN, so I can monitor for these files (having switched BlueHarvest off and enabled invisible files in Finder), and with it switched off.

To quote Captain Oates, "I may be some time!" But, like Arnie, "I'll be back!" :)

Correlation ≠ Causation :)

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colmosiris wrote:

Thanks Stephen.

 

Anyway, I still do not understand how my computer (the Mac) can create files on another computer (the NAS), when it (the Mac) is switched off. And until I understand that, nothing else makes sense.

 

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I never said the mac was creating files when it was turned off.  The metadata files are created when the files are copied from the mac to the NAS shares (and some might also be created when mac browses the shares).  They are hidden files, so you won't normally see them.

Per the logs, the issue is that these pre-existing and hidden files aren't being copied successfully from the share to the backup.

Are you saying that you've turned the mac off, then deleted the metadata files, confirmed that the deletions were successful, and then ran the backup (with the mac off for all the steps)?

Thanks Stephen.

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I never said the mac was creating files when it was turned off.

No, you didn't, and nor did I say you did. Anyway, as I said, I'm going to do some experimenting, with the help of Ross from BlueHarvest. I shall apply Sherlock Holmes's maxim of eliminating the impossible, and will be left with the truth, however improbable or nonsensical.

Okay, thanks for that. I'm afraid I'm going to have to leave this now. It was not a work thing, and as everything is now where it should be, I'll have to leave it there, as other things are far more pressing..