RNDP 6000 seems to be short circuiting my UPS

I added the credentials on all my machines and they seem to be seeing everything just fine.

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KenTanker0us1 wrote:

I added the credentials on all my machines and they seem to be seeing everything just fine.

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Great!

Yes, thanks to you, Stephen. Great help. You might have missed these questions upthread (no worries), so I'll paste them here:

May I ask you a few network speed/connectivity questions?

re: migrating shares for the old NAS to the new:
(FYI) The old NAS, along with a few other machines, one of which is my license server, are in the next room on their own satellite switch (the 3rd GS108). The new NAS is here on the bench with my workstaion and it's plugged into one of the 2 GS108 switches here.

 I am experiencing 2 problems with the migration process:

1. The other wired machines can't connect to my license server when I'm doing these copies, so of course I can't get licenses and can't work.
2. The migration copy/backup jobs are DOG SLOW. Should it take a day and a half to migrate 1.4TB with rsync?

Can these problems be due to how I have the satellites set up, and further, would the speed of the migration be sped up if both NAS were on the same switch?

Thank you so much for your good help and advice.

Okay, disregard half of that question.

It seems the license server isn't out of touch anymore. Something to do with the credentials? Anyway, that part of the problem seems to be fixed. Which leaves me with the other half: how much is the speed influenced by how I have the satellites set up, and further, would the speed of the migration be sped up if both NAS were on the same switch?

And thanks!

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KenTanker0us1 wrote:

Which leaves me with the other half: how much is the speed influenced by how I have the satellites set up, and further, would the speed of the migration be sped up if both NAS were on the same switch?

 

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I get about 50 MB/sec using rsync backup.  That's in the reverse direction (the source is my RN526x, the destination is my pro-6), but I don't think that matters much.

You are getting about perhaps 25% of that.  So something isn't right.  It could be the TLB bonding - so perhaps try breaking that bond on both NAS and see if that helps.  TLB could result in the NAS trying to send more than 1 gigabit to a single destination, and in that case you will see packet loss (and a speed slowdown).

Also

• What grade of cabling are you using?  Cat-5e or better is needed for gigabit.  The cable grade is often printed on the cable (every few feet). 
• Was the new NAS still building the RAID array when you were copying data?  That will reduce performance.

As far as the general topology goes:  Each switch has enough internal backplane bandwidth to maintain full gigabit speed in both directions on all ports of the switch (simultaneously).  But the connections between each switch are limited to 1 gigabit, so if you have multiple traffic flows between the switches, those trunks can limit your performance. 

If rsync is the only (or dominant) traffic flow, the trunks shouldn't create any issues.  But it certainly wouldn't hurt to connect the two NAS to the same switch.

The switch upgrade to the GS110MX would eliminate the trunk bottlenecks, since the trunks would be running at 10 gigabits.  That's the main selling feature of that switch.

Well, it copied 1.5 TB overnight so, for some reason, the backup speed has improved. The biggest parts of the migration are finished and I'm a happy customer. This forum has been stellar. All that's left are a few wrinkles:

re: upgrading the RNDP6000 to OS6:

Would you recommend it? This would be the time to do it, I would think. But if I need to double the RAM I could use a recommendation for which chip to buy. Is that something you can do, or do I need to take out the chip and get the specs?

re: incremental backup:

Can you recommend a good tute for setting up incremental backup back to the 6000? Does the operation change if I upgrade the 6000 to OS 6 (along with doubling the ram)?

re: built-in antivirus:

Can you recommend a good tute for installing/using this? I've never had it on the 6000.

re: Admin Page/Frontview:

I think you explained this somewhere but I can't find it. Why does Chrome tell me the connection is not secure?

I'm able to work now and I'm preparing the space for putting both NAS in the same location and they will be on the same switch. I'm pretty sure my cabling is cat5 or better. Once I get the PSU extender cable I'll be able to completely put the 6000 back together. Right now it looks like Frankenstein. It's been quite a ride. Thanks a million times for all your help.

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KenTanker0us1 wrote:

Well, it copied 1.5 TB overnight so, for some reason, the backup speed has improved. The biggest parts of the migration are finished and I'm a happy customer. This forum has been stellar ... Thanks a million times for all your help.

 

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I'm glad I was able to help.

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KenTanker0us1 wrote:

 

re: upgrading the RNDP6000 to OS6:

Would you recommend it? This would be the time to do it, I would think. But if I need to double the RAM I could use a recommendation for which chip to buy. Is that something you can do, or do I need to take out the chip and get the specs?

 

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I believe this would work and is well priced: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002N52ZO4

That is based on this post:  https://community.netgear.com/t5/ReadyNAS-Hardware-Compatibility/Memory-upgrade-for-ReadyNAS-Pro-6/m-p/1074063/highlight/true#M14002

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KenTanker0us1 wrote:

 

re: incremental backup:

Can you recommend a good tute for setting up incremental backup back to the 6000? Does the operation change if I upgrade the 6000 to OS 6 (along with doubling the ram)?

 

It's the same thing you are doing now, just in the reverse direction.  I schedule nightly rsync backup jobs for each share, which run on my Pro-6.   

If both NAS are on 24x7, you can also run the backup jobs on the new NAS (using a remote rsync destination).  Running them on the source NAS does improve coherency, since the NAS will make a snapshot of the share, and then back up the snapshot.  But if you aren't using the NAS off-hours, then it doesn't really matter.

Note you will see an "admin" folder when you access the NAS with file explorer.  I suggest not using that (avoiding the need to back it up). It's a "home folder" share, which is locked down to admin.  It's easy to back up home, but not so easy to restore it.  You can turn off SMB on the home folder in the share settings, and then you won't see that folder.

Converting the pro to OS-6 won't change much. 

• It will provide another backup option called ReadyDR.  ReadyDR isn't a "highly available" solution - meaning you need to restore the ReadyDR to a fresh share if you need to use it.  Rsync maintains a straight copy, so you could immediate cut over to the pro if the new NAS were to fail.  Personally I like that immediate cut-over option, so I use rsync.
• OS-6 snapshots are an interesting capability, and allow you to roll back to previous file versions.  When created, they take no space, but as files are modified or deleted in the main share, the older version migrates to the snapshot(s).  If you do daily backups to an OS-6 system with daily snapshots configured, then you do get reasonable versioning, which you can't get with OS 4.2.x.  FWIW, I do recommend using custom snapshots on the NAS instead of the default "smart" snapshots.  The problem with the smart snapshots is that they have indefinite retention, which will eat up space over time.  Mine are set up as shown below:

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KenTanker0us1 wrote:

I'm pretty sure my cabling is cat5 or better.

If you are using any "vanilla" cat5, you should replace it with cat5e or cat6.

Thanks very much, Stephen.

re: upgrading to OS 6, upping RAM
If it doesn't change much, it seems best to just leave it as it is, thanks.

re: incremental backup:
I enabled rsync on the important shares on the new NAS. I'm setting up backup jobs on the 6000 and it appears that the first backup is a full one, and from then on it will be incremental. Confirm?

Also: Frequently I will be rendering frames to the jobs share overnight. Is it best to disable the incremental backup during these times?

re: home folders:
I turned off SMB for Home Folders but it still has an AFP protocol enabled. Do I need to disable that as well? I'm not even sure what home folders are for.

re: snapshots:
I must admit I still don't understand what these are. Do I need them? Are they something like a windows restore point?

re: network cabling:
I'm pretty sure I'm up to date, but I will double-check.

As always, thanks a million.

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KenTanker0us1 wrote:

 

re: incremental backup:
I enabled rsync on the important shares on the new NAS. I'm setting up backup jobs on the 6000 and it appears that the first backup is a full one, and from then on it will be incremental. Confirm?

 

Yes.

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KenTanker0us1 wrote:

 

Also: Frequently I will be rendering frames to the jobs share overnight. Is it best to disable the incremental backup during these times?

 

That suggests that you should run the backup jobs on the new NAS with the pro as the destination.  That will ensure that the share is fully coherent (backed up at a single point in time), and eliminate errors when files are locked (or deleted) while the backup is running.

If the rendering puts a big load on the NAS, then you probably should set the backup schedule to at least reduce the contention.  Though it should work ok, as long as the backup jobs are on the NAS.

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KenTanker0us1 wrote:

 

 

re: home folders:
I turned off SMB for Home Folders but it still has an AFP protocol enabled. Do I need to disable that as well? I'm not even sure what home folders are for.

 

If you aren't a Mac user you can disable AFP altogether.  

There are folks (often businesses) who want a private storage area for each NAS user (each with a NAS account).  This storage can only be accessed by the NAS user and the system admin.  The home folders provide that feature.

It's not something I use, and I think most home users are better off without that feature.

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KenTanker0us1 wrote:

 

re: snapshots:
I must admit I still don't understand what these are. Do I need them? Are they something like a windows restore point?

 

A bit like that, but focussed on data and not system updates.  I tried to describe how they work quite a while ago here: https://community.netgear.com/t5/ReadyNAS-in-Business/ReadyNAS-312-Need-Help-Understanding-Snapshots/m-p/936586/highlight/true#M3041

The basic idea is that a snapshot is a complete copy of the share when it is taken.  It takes no real space, because the data blocks in the files are actually shared between the main share and the snapshot(s).  Over time, as files change in the main share, the old versions are retained (only in the snapshots), and then they do take up space.  If files are modified, then the main share will become fragmented (because the unchanged blocks in the file are still held in common with the snapshot).

If you have shares that have a lot of "churn", then you don't want snapshots enabled for them in the main NAS.  Your jobs share might be one in the category. Note that backups run on the new NAS will still make a temporary snapshot before the backup (and delete it when the backup is finished). You could still maybe enable snapshots in the Pro for those shares, but you might want a short retention period, since the shares are still changing a lot from day to day.  You can roll back the main share to one of the snapshots in the admin web ui.  If the windows previous version option is set for the share, you can also right-click on a file or folder from Windows, and see/restore a previous version of the file.

Thanks for all that, Stephen.

Any comment on the built-in antivirus? Is it something I need? A good place to look for a tute, anything?

Much appreciated, sir.

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KenTanker0us1 wrote:

 

Any comment on the built-in antivirus? Is it something I need?

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I don't use it - all my files are coming from PCs with their own protection.

One issue is that the only controls over it are "On" and "Off" - no ability to manage what actions are taken, enter exceptions, etc.

Understood, thank you. Now I don't feel bad that I never used anything like that on my 6000.

My friend, I hate to jinx myself but I think we might be done. I'm going to give it a few days, but it looks like I'm set!

I cannot thank you enough for helping me through this mess. Shall I click 'solved' anyplace when I come back?

You guys win the 'best forum I've ever been to' award for sure. 

best,

Ken

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KenTanker0us1 wrote:

Shall I click 'solved' anyplace when I come back?

 

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That's always good, but might be hard given the length of this thread.  Maybe make a short post that lists the issues that were solved, and then make that the "solution".

Well Stephen, I was right to not close out the thread. Nothing wrong with the new NAS, or even the old one as far as I can tell.

But the copy job seems to have doubled the size of the share I was backing up. I assume this has something to do with the backup settings? My impression was that the intial backup would be full and then incremental from there. But the backup job seems to have doubled the size of the share: it went from 1.4 TB to 2.8 TB overnight. It's pretty weird because I can put the 2 shares next to each other in explorer windows and they seem identical; and if I select a random folder inside the share it's the same size and the corresponding share in the new NAS I was copying from. Weird.

So do I need to delete everything in the old share and do a complete backup of it from scratch? Obviously something went wrong. Here ai am thanking you for your help again.

Do you have snapshots enabled on the share?

On the (old) target share I wouldn't know how, so I doubt it has snapshots enabled.

On the new one, I don't think so. In share settings/snapshots, Snapshot Management is set to Smart, but it's greyed out. Shapshot Schedule is set to Never.

I meant the new one, but it looks like they are disabled.   Also I am assuming the size increase is on the new NAS - let me know if that is incorrect. 

Did you look at the backup log?

Also, if the backup is running on the new NAS, can you post screen shots of at least the advanced and options tabs for the backup job?  If it is running on the old NAS, post screen shots of at least Step 1 and Step 4.

I took your recommendation and I'm running the backup job on the new NAS; so the source is local and the destination is the 6000.

The size increase is on the old NAS - the target.

I did look at the backup log, but it didn't really clear anything up for me.

Screenshots from the new:

So I'm mostly happy, I just need to understand these backup jobs more clearly. What did I do wrong?

As always, thanks very much.

I suggest setting "Remove deleted files on target".  When that is set, if you delete a file on the new NAS, it will be deleted on the old when the backup runs.

Look to see if there is a subfolder in the Pro share that matches the sharename.

You were right: there is a folder called jobs in the jobs share. So it would be a duplicate of the share living inside of the share. Can I delete it?

I changed the settings for the backup job (on the new NAS) so now "Remove deleted files on target" is enabled.

Awaiting instructions, with thanks.

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KenTanker0us1 wrote:

You were right: there is a folder called jobs in the jobs share. So it would be a duplicate of the share living inside of the share. Can I delete it?

 

Yes. 

That is where the backup actually went.  You can fix that by going to source setting in the backup job and enter a / in the path field. 

That is described in step 16 here, but is very easy to miss: https://kb.netgear.com/29741/How-do-I-back-up-data-between-two-ReadyNAS-OS-6-systems-using-the-backup-manager.  An OS-6 quirk, though it can be convenient if you are backing up multiple shares to the same target share. 

Sorry, that link won't open for me.

So let me see if I understand you:

1. In the new NAS, where I'm running the backup job, I set the backup job settings/Source to be share:/jobs ??

    Right now the backup job source is set to share:jobs. Here's a screen shot:

I went ahead and deleted that extra jobs folder, so the old NAS is happy.

Awaiting instructions with thanks.

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KenTanker0us1 wrote:

Sorry, that link won't open for me.

 

So let me see if I understand you:

1. In the new NAS, where I'm running the backup job, I set the backup job settings/Source to be share:/jobs ??

 

 The link should be fixed now.  The forum software sometimes grabs an extra character or two when it creates the hyperlink.

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KenTanker0us1 wrote:

In the new NAS, where I'm running the backup job, I set the backup job settings/Source to be share:/jobs ??

   

No. I said to set to PATH field to /.  Put the share name back to share:jobs.

My bad. I was looking at the name instead of the path. Duh!

I never changed the name, so no need to change anything back.

The link works now. Very useful.

I put the / in the path field.  I fully expect the backup job to be good now.

Again, many thanks.

StephenB, I'm checking back to let you know that both my NASs (plural) are both working wonderfully. The help of this forum was incalculable.

I'm looking at setting static IPs on my network, especially for the NASs because I'm using Windows Credentials as you recommended. I'm reading about all the various elements in the process and I'm trying to be *really* careful with it because I'm just plain scared of screwing up and losing my data. I've tried setting one NAS to static IP outside the range of my router but I can't add the static IP in the router because the DHCP still has it listed, with mac address, in the DHCP table. So I'm not sure what the sequence of operations should be, and once again I'm a total noob.

Should I start a new discussion, or is it ok to ask questions here? As always, many thanks.

Ken