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Best way to reduce lag on LAN?

Best way to reduce lag on LAN?

So I have the XR500, and a gs108 switch.  Currently I have the Xbox One and my PC connected to the switch as well as other stuff. Everything is Gigabit.  When I stream my Xbox to my PC, I occassionally experience lag.  I am thinking there might be a way to isolate these 2 devices from other LAN traffic to increase performance and hopefully eliminate the lag.  Is there a way to do this?

Model: XR500| Nighthawk Pro Gaming Router
Message 1 of 29

Re: Best way to reduce lag on LAN?

So the solution is that I need something with a larger packet buffer?  Is that all I would need to do?

Message 2 of 29
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Best way to reduce lag on LAN?

Move the xbox LAN cable directly to the router and mode all other stutff to the switch.

Message 3 of 29

Re: Best way to reduce lag on LAN?


wrote:

Moving the devices directly to the Ethernet ports on the XR500/R7800 -same boxes different firmware, should in theory be the best solution.

 

Dramatic improvement with a cisco sg200-08 switch introduced.

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Nighthawk-WiFi-Routers/R7800-Speed-Issues/m-p/1500114/highlight/fal...

 

This is not the first time people have reported the introduction of a Ethernet switch to improve throughput.

The switch(2-4Mb packet buffer) seems to be compensating for deficiencies of the XR500/R7800 firmware.


I'm not sure what my problem is then.  I did as you suggested and no change.  I have Cat5e for both Xbox and PC.  The lag is not terrible, but it's enough to make me not want to use it.  

 

On Xbox app, I have set to very high quality, which I assume should be able to handle without any issues given my setup.  My max throughput has peaked at 25mbps.  The lag consists of occasional frame rate drops and audio dropouts (though not simultaneously).

 

Your comment about the Cisco switch has me a bit confused.  Are you saying that I don't need it because the XR500 is just as capable?  Or should I try that switch and see if there's any improvement?

Message 4 of 29
Netduma-Fraser
NetDuma Partner

Re: Best way to reduce lag on LAN?

As you're on LAN there shouldn't be an issue. However because you have a switch and a router that both have their own QoS I imagine the cause is using both of these at the same time i.e. throttling on the XR500 & then also throttling on the Switch which may leave you without enough bandwidth to stream consistently. I can't comment on Switch specific settings though I would recommend disabling it's QoS if possible and using the XR500 QoS exclusively. In that scenario I would recommend disabling Traffic Prioritization, ensuring share excess is enabled for both download/upload in bandwidth allocation and allocating enough bandwidth to these two devices. Then having Anti-Bufferbloat set to Always and a download/upload % lower than 100 (we usually recommend 70%).

Message 5 of 29

Re: Best way to reduce lag on LAN?



You are correct that I am on al LAN, but I am confused by your explanation.  It is my understanding that QoS on a router and an switch are 2 separate things.  On a router, QoS also deals with the internet and its speed in addition to LAN, whereas a switch only controls what is connected to it.  I have tried both enabling and disabling QoS on the switch, which made no difference.  Currently both PC ands Xbox are directly connected to the XR500.

 

My logical side is telling me that since I am on a LAN, then QoS on the router does not play the role I am seeking, assuming my understanding QoS on routers vs switches is correct.  I am unsure how I could make QoS only affect the LAN side of the XR500, hence is why I have a switch with its own QoS.

 

However, I will try as you suggested,.  My Anti-Bufferbloat is already set to When High Traffic is detected and is set to 70%, now set to Always.  I have allocated PC and Xbox one to 50% upload/download.  The only traffic prioritisation that was enabled was for Xbox, which I have disabled, and All devices DumaOS Classifiec games is enabled.

Message 6 of 29
Netduma-Fraser
NetDuma Partner

Re: Best way to reduce lag on LAN?

You should see the devices connected to the switch as individual devices on the XR500's device manager and if that is the case then it's likely getting QoS'd twice. There's no way to set the QoS to LAN only but let us know how you get on with my suggestions.
Message 7 of 29
Netduma-Fraser
NetDuma Partner

Re: Best way to reduce lag on LAN?

I was referring to if it was enabled at the time that it could be QoS'd twice. The settings I gave should resolve the issue.
Message 8 of 29
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Best way to reduce lag on LAN?

The best solution if you need a switch is a non smart or non managed switch to use with any router that already has QoS and traffic management features. The smart or managed switches are generally needed at different configurations for use in other networks that need either specific traffic routing to other swtiches or in some cases VLAN configurations. Usually HW routers have most of these features already so by using a smart or managed switch with a HW router will be kind of redundent or over use of certain features and can cause problems. So using a non-managed switch is preferred with HW routers. If you have a managed or smart switch used with a HW router, then be sure to disable all the traffoc management features on the swtich and let the HW router do all that.

 

I've been using a 24 port non managed switch for years with HW routers with out any issues. Let the HW router do the job and be the main point of doing network management and handling. Use swithces for adding additional ports for devices that you need to add to the routers network since most routers are only 4 port capable. Nothing wrong in adding a non-managed switch. 

Message 9 of 29

Re: Best way to reduce lag on LAN?


wrote:
I was referring to if it was enabled at the time that it could be QoS'd twice. The settings I gave should resolve the issue.

 

 

Your suggestions did in fact make an improvement.  I am still seeing a bit of lag but not like before.  I've only used it for a short time but so far so good.  Now I am wondering if thesettings can be ajusted can further?  Tweaked a bit maybe?  

Message 10 of 29
Netduma-Fraser
NetDuma Partner

Re: Best way to reduce lag on LAN?

Great to hear that. Yes you could give your devices more bandwidth, higher or lower Anti-Bufferbloat - it depends on your connection. There will be a sweet spot, my settings are just a starting point. Make sure the Geo-Filter isn't active in Filtering Mode, that might affect the stream.
Message 11 of 29
schumaku
Guru

Re: Best way to reduce lag on LAN?


@Case850 wrote:

 

The switch(2-4Mb packet buffer) seems to be compensating for deficiencies of the XR500/R7800 firmware.


The router is not in the data path between the Windows and Xbox One at all - both devices are connected direct to the GS108 switch.

 


@Case850 wrote:

Moving the devices directly to the Ethernet ports on the XR500/R7800 -same boxes different firmware, should in theory be the best solution.


As per the QCA8337 Datasheet the embedded switch has a 1 Mbit (or 128 kByte) packet buffer.
As per the GS108v5 Datasheet, it has 192 kByte or 1.5 Mbit packet buffer.

 

A generic Ethernet port can send out the packets as any time, there is no store and forward, no flow control (very few exceptions). The receving port or interface has to take the packet regardless of the current job an interface or switch processor it's working on. The buffer is used just hold a packet for a very short time.

 

Here again the use case:

 

@diehardbattery1 wrote:

So I have the XR500, and a gs108 switch.  Currently I have the Xbox One and my PC connected to the switch as well as other stuff. Everything is Gigabit.

Message 12 of 29

Re: Best way to reduce lag on LAN?


wrote:
Great to hear that. Yes you could give your devices more bandwidth, higher or lower Anti-Bufferbloat - it depends on your connection. There will be a sweet spot, my settings are just a starting point. Make sure the Geo-Filter isn't active in Filtering Mode, that might affect the stream.

 

Can you elaborate on the relationship between giving more bandwidth and anti bufferbloat?  I have an AT&T Fiber 1GB connection if that helps.  

 

Also I would prefer to keep the Geo Filter Enabled.  Would spectating mode be better?  The reason I ask is that I usually stream COD WW2 and would like to have the best connection possible, hence the Geofilter.

Message 13 of 29
Netduma-Fraser
NetDuma Partner

Re: Best way to reduce lag on LAN?

The lower the percentage the more room you allow for devices & their applications to use the internet at the same time and vice versa. 70/70 is a good compromise. Considering you've got such a high bandwidth and still experiencing a little bit of lag, I'm thinking theres something else affecting it. Perhaps a cap on the speed of the xbox's ethernet port. I don't think this is a router issue but just in case disable QoS completely in Anti-Bufferbloat's options. If its the same then likely a problem elsewhere.
Message 14 of 29

Re: Best way to reduce lag on LAN?

Okay, I'll do that but I must be missing something here... What does an internet speed test have to do with what I am experiencing on a LAN which, doesn't use internet at all?  

 

 http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/29488597

 

 

Message 15 of 29
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Best way to reduce lag on LAN?

So have you removed all swtiches from the router and directly connected your gaming devices to the router and or PC's to the router to see if you experience LAG issues.

 

I would disable all non essential devices to help weed out any other devices that maybe causing problems.

 

I have 99% sent on both sliders and Detect only on Priority traffic. Two xbox one consoles are set to balance Up and Down bandwith since I have two consoles that game sometimes at the same time. IPv6 is disabled since my ISP doesn't support IPv6 natively. NAT Filter set to OPEN for OPEN NAT on console dash board and in same game running on both consoles at the same time.

 

Do seem to see any lag unless it's coming from out side my network or gaming with others.

 

If you feel that LAG continues, then I would try another router and see if it continues. Possible faulty router.


wrote:

Okay, I'll do that but I must be missing something here... What does an internet speed test have to do with what I am experiencing on a LAN which, doesn't use internet at all?  

 

 http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/29488597

 

 


 

Message 16 of 29
Netduma-Fraser
NetDuma Partner

Re: Best way to reduce lag on LAN?

If both are connected directly to the XR500 via ethernet cable it's impossible for it to be getting lag when they're just communicating with each other. Disable QoS completely from Anti-Bufferbloat's menu and try again if you still encounter issues.
Message 17 of 29
schumaku
Guru

Re: Best way to reduce lag on LAN?


@Netduma-Fraser wrote:
If both are connected directly to the XR500 via ethernet cable it's impossible for it to be getting lag when they're just communicating with each other. 

The very same if the Windows and the Xbox are connected to the same GbE switch Ian, isn't it ?

Even if one would be connected to one of the XR500 ports, the switch on another port on the XR500 switch, and the other end to the switch - there is still nothing which can create a serious lag.

Message 18 of 29
schumaku
Guru

Re: Best way to reduce lag on LAN?

@diehardbattery1 wrote:

So I have the XR500, and a gs108 switch.  Currently I have the Xbox One and my PC connected to the switch as well as other stuff. Everything is Gigabit.  When I stream my Xbox to my PC, I occassionally experience lag.  I am thinking there might be a way to isolate these 2 devices from other LAN traffic to increase performance and hopefully eliminate the lag.


Back to the roots. 

Permitting the game does run without an Internet connection ...

  • Create a direct connection between the Windows system and the Xbox. I would assume both go to a ZeroConfig address (unless there are static IPs in place). And test.
  • Create a dedicated connection with just the Windows system, link to the switch, link to the Xbox, Xbox. And test.
  • Create a dedicated connection with just the Windows system, link to the XR500, link to the Xbox, Xbox. And test.

What appears like lag could be simply a massive packet loss and/or errors. 

 

Another point worth checking: Some network interfaces come with really bad Windows drivers - which are leading to low performance in general.

Message 19 of 29

Re: Best way to reduce lag on LAN?



  • The game is COD WW2, so I do need an internet connection for that.  I've been running now for almost an hour with zero issues.  I'm still at a loss as to what might be causing the lag spikes.  I am now leaning more toward that there must be something on the network is doing this.  When I check the network activity to see if I can find what device might be causing it, I'm not seeing anything definitive.  The most I've seen other devices take is less than 5mbps of the internet bandwidth.

Message 20 of 29
schumaku
Guru

Re: Best way to reduce lag on LAN?

Well, in this case all other community members and Ian which talk about the router and Internet side are on the better path....

 

To remove the streaming link between the Windows system and the Xbox (what does certainly add additional load on the Xbox interface) - do you experience the same lag when using the Xbox direct?

Message 21 of 29

Re: Best way to reduce lag on LAN?

I'm unsure what you mean by the term "using the Xbox direct?"  If you are talking about just streaming either without a router or internet involved, such as System Link (or local) that would be impossible for me for 2 reasons:

 

First, all of my games are digital, requiring me to be signed into my Xbox Live account in order to be able to play them.  Unless I'm mistaken, signing into Xbox Live requires an Internet connection.

 

Second, even if I were able to connect direct as you put it, my current situation is that I play multiplayer matches online, and would find it difficult to create a similar scenario in which to test given that I don't believe I would have internet access.

 

I'm sorry if I misunderstood your question.

Message 22 of 29
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Best way to reduce lag on LAN?

I would disconnect or turn OFF all other devices as much as you can accept for the xbox and game. See if you notice any lag. Directly connect your game console to the router. Don't use a switch.

 

If your experiencing LAG while other devices are online and you don't when everything else is off, then one of these devices is probably the culprit. You'll need to graduate turning on each device to see when and where the LAG starts. One thing to look at if you have a switch that has LED indicators is to see if the switch LED actifivity is constantly ON and blicking when you feel that nothing else is going on, or not gaming or streaming anything. If this is happening, then one of the devices is doing something it shouldn't be.

 

Seems like this is not a router issue.

 

Message 23 of 29
Netduma-Fraser
NetDuma Partner

Re: Best way to reduce lag on LAN?

Hi diehard, I just wanted to check in and see how you're getting on. Is this still an issue you're having?
Message 24 of 29

Re: Best way to reduce lag on LAN?


wrote:
Hi diehard, I just wanted to check in and see how you're getting on. Is this still an issue you're having?

So far so good.  I still see an occasional hiccup but nothing like before.  I have encountered another issue regarding party chat though.  Should I mention that here or start a new thread?

Message 25 of 29
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