R7500 'Limitations' in Access Point Mode (Nighthawk X4 r7500 ac2350, r7500v2)

Thanks PEHowland. I thought the Netgear "moderator"  was an employee (and I suspected you were as well).

That changes everything.  I understand better the perspect of your comments and those of Babylon5.  Just trying to work with what they gave us.I'll try to keep my comments directed at the "community" and not netgear (as I had been doing).

I appreciate the way you guys donate your time to help others, I've benefited much from these sorts of posts over the years.

Dennis

I don’t work directly for Netgear, my day-job is a defence systems engineer. I do however work ‘with’ Netgear, a subtle difference that needs a little explaining. I work on the forums for Netgear offering advice, and where I consider it necessary or beneficial to Netgear or customers posting in the forums.

I can report this issue back to Netgear, but if I suggest that it is a ‘fault’ then I would expect the feedback to be along the lines of ‘it’s working as designed’. I can propose it as a requested change which will also be in line with other models in the same range.

The point made by PEHowland about the forums was correct up to the point where the forums were re-vamped this year, but since the forums changed many of the moderators are now Netgear employees, the main aim being to create better interaction between Netgear and the community.

Thanks Babylon5for the clarification.  Now I understand better your situation, as well as your comment about whether it is

   a "fault" or a

   a "feature request" or a "design change".

For me, the classification depends on whether NetGear's design team wanted the r7500 to work like the r7000 while in "Access Mode"... including the "switch-like" behavor of the r7000 I have come to depend on... of which perhaps they were not even really aware.... but hopefully they are now. 

If they intend (or intended) the two units to be functionality the same in a way which includes--intentionally or unintentionally--this obscure "switch-like" behavor of the r7000 of which I talk... then the lack of this "switch-like" behavoir would be a "fault", they will want to "correct". (it all sounds so judgmental, doesn't it?)

If they could care less about wether the functionality to be the same for both the r7000 and the r7500... at least when it comes to this so-called "switch-like" behavor (what ever that is...), then my request would obviously be  a "feature request" or a "design change". 

As you've probably gathered I would be happier, as a customer, if NetGear did indeed intend the functionality to be the same (even on the minor points).  I would feel safer buying NetGear's new stuff, something I am less willing to do if they don't worry about continuity of service and features in their products. 

In any case, I will let you present this ("problem-suggestion") to the engineers in the way you think best... should you even think it worthwhile.  Thanks for your help, which ever way it turns out. 

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DKinSwitzerland wrote:

 

In any case, I will let you present this ("problem-suggestion") to the engineers in the way you think best... should you even think it worthwhile.  Thanks for your help, which ever way it turns out. 

 

 

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I’m happy to try to help and will send a message this evening, but just to be absolutely clear before I do so my understanding is that you want to;

• Use the R7500 as an AP
• You are setting it to AP mode in the GUI
• You are not connecting to the WAN port but instead the Gateway/router is connected to a LAN port
• You may wish to have failover cover so may have more than one Gateway
• In the above configuration the R7500 fails to pass traffic to the Gateway after 2-5 minutes.
• You have an R7000 which works in the way you would expect 

If any of the above is incorrect please let me know.

You summary should be fine to get the ball rolling.  I will put a slightly more detailed summary below so that they have it all in one place.

DK

1. Observations.  When configured as an Access point using the GUI and when connected to the Gateway/router via a LAN port (and not the WAN port), the customer notes:

    ●his r7000 works (passes traffic) as expected.

    ●his r7500 fails to "work" (pass traffic) after 2-5 minutes, in most cases.

2. Basic Desire.  The Customer desires the r7500 to function as the r7000 does while in Access Point mode. By this he means:

    ●Wireless Traffic: r7500 functions as a Wireless Access Point

    ●Wired Traffic: r7500 functions as a "switch"

3. Details.  When the consumer says he desires the r7500 to treat wired traffic like as a switch, he means:

    ●the r7500 connects to the router via any wired connection (LAN or WAN)

    ●the r7500 can manage multiple connections to the Gateway/Router (LAN or WAN)

           -Dynamically routes traffic along the quickest path as actual traffic conditions change

           -Dynamically routes traffic around failed upstream connections (failover cover)

4. Looking Foward.  What the consumer says about the r7500 emulating the r7000 concerning wired traffic while in Access Point mode, he would also like to apply to the r8000, the r8500 and future NetGear products.  His network requires that Access Points have multiple conncections to upstream devices because reilability is important for him (single fault analysis).  He has many aging access points he would like to replace with NetGear products, but cannot if they do not have this functionality.

DKinSwitzerland, I will pass your comments on later today.

Regards,

Andy_in_UK

Update:  My customer service Case was escalated and now an "expert" is also working to resolve the "issue". This has been very helpful, the customer service at this level are extremely professional, competent and attentive.  I am quite impressed. 

Failover: If the connection to the DNS/Gateway via the WAN completely failed (the equivlant of a disconnected a cable), it would be nice if the R7500 could to speak to the DNS/Gateway via a LAN port.  The R7000 does this, as does R7500 in certain circumstances.   The "expert" is currently looking into the reasons the units don't connect via the LAN (which is what is keeping me from getting the failover protection I desire). [Observation: It was my impression that the expert did, indeed, think the units were "malfunctioning" if they required a connection to the server via the WAN rather than any old LAN port.  Yet they have yet to say anything "official" on the matter.]

Dynamic load balancing: It was helpful that the "expert" was able to explain to me why that the R7500 does NOT offer Dynamic Load Balancing.  The R7500 does NOT have Link Aggregation features (LACP) by which the router monitors traffic on redundant (pre-designated) lines and choses which one to use (or which combination). This is a feature of more "advanced" switches/routers.  The R7500 is expensive and fast, but it is not apparently that advanced.  So no expect dynamic load balacing for the R7500. 

... or for the R8500... at least as far as WAN connections are concerned.  The R8500 advertises a very limited form of Link Aggregation (LACP), but this apparently not designed for upstream connections to the Gateway/DNS (WAN), only for certian downstream devices.

Where can I download this firmware?

The latest version in Downloads is 1.0.0.22, which is dated Nov. 16, 2015.

I have a similar issue: does this fix also my problem? See https://community.netgear.com/t5/Nighthawk-WiFi-Routers/R7500-wireless-AP-Problems/td-p/1023401

Thanks,

Johan

I see now this firmware is for r7500v2. For the X4 R7500 (which I have) the latest version is 1.0.0.94. So... where can I download this newest version?

Thanks, Johan

If I understand what is happening in your setup, jvdstoel, when you try to connect your switch downstream of the R7500, the R7500 eventually shuts down. 

     Router 2 (Gbit)--> [WAN] R7500 [LAN] ---> Switch (GS742T)

Not exactly the same as mine, since my unit works fine when router/gateway is connected via the WAN

     Router --> [WAN] R7500 [LAN] ---> Switch

and fails when the router/gateway is connected via a LAN Port with high traffic:

     Router --> [LAN] R7500 [LAN] ---> Switch

Comments:

Based on my own discussions with NetGear about the problems I am seeing on my R7500, I suspect you are correct in identifying an error in the R7500 when in Access Point.  And it is probably related to the error I am finding when I start running  in high traffic through my downstream switch.

Clearly, NetGear's primary concern for Access Point operation is the WiFi, not the LAN ports. (The name "Access Point" describes what is happening with the WiFi, but says nothing about how the LAN ports should operate... and their documentation is silent as well).  Quite dissappointing!  The Nighthawk line is their flagship line, and for the price they charge you would expect the LAN ports in Access Point mode to work like a fully managed switch (QoS, Dynamic load balancing, aggregate links, etc), or at least like an unmanaged switch.  But since their design team obviously gave very little thought to the LAN ports in Access Point mode, the functionality of the LAN ports is sub par on R7500 in Access Point mode (as you will see if you follow my thread).  

I would guess that as the traffic increases (or perhaps it is only certian kinds of traffic), the wired features of the R7500 are unable to keep up, and that is causing both of our problems.  I'm hoping the firmware update they gave me addresses the problem, but I'm out of time for the moment on troubleshooting and won't get back to this for a few months.  I hope you are able to get somewhere.

You will have to contact NetGear directly for the firmware upgrade they provided me.  I am not sure it solves either of our problem, but at least they tried.  And if it doesn't, I'm relatively sure they will take the feedback and try again.

I have a R7500V2 running on V1.0.2.2.

When running as a router mode, R7500V2 behaves as designed.

When R7500V2 runs as an AP,

1. Devices connected to it via wireless work OK (i.e. wireless PC --> AP of R7500V2 - WAN port of R7500 --> gateway router). However, wifi guest can NO longer be restricted from accessing resources attached to R7500V2 as clearly the case under router mode. 

2. Any device connected to R7500V2 via its LAN ports started working but then dropped out after a while.  I tried it several times to be able to say that it was not an isolated incident. On reflection, I think DkinSwitzerland accurately described the symptom.

I agree with DkinSwitzerland that R7500V2 fails as an AP device. On this point, I understand his frustration having bought four units if R7500V2.

For me, I wait till an Open Source firmware available for R7500V2, I will flash it over R7500V2's original firmware. Netgear s/w dept needs to lift up its game. I do hope this is taken as a constructive comment.

>> Not exactly the same as mine, since my unit works fine when router/gateway is connected via the WAN

     Router --> [WAN] R7500 [LAN] ---> Switch

This works in my situation as well.

This situation fails:

  Router --> [WAN] R7500 [LAN] ---> Switch (works fine)

                               R7500 [WIFI]  (fails)

To be more precise: 

- the wifi connection remains operating (as my wifi client, mobile phone for example indicates the connection remains available).

- their is no data traffic between the wifi client and the internet after some time (I think WIFI data traffic stops when LAN data traffic starts).

- the Netgear logging reports a wifi security issue (so points you towards a wrong conclusion).

- there are no problems with the LAN devices.

- the problem can be cleared by saving the WIFI settings (after which the problem comes back some time later).

- my conclusion: software bug in R7500.

I posted too fast...

How to contact Netgear directly? I am not willing to pay them for solving obvious bugs as I bought the unit a few months ago. I learned through their website that you only can get support after 3 months when you are willing to pay them.

I found the NetGear support phone number on their website (under support).  I don't remember which number I called.  Good luck.