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Orbi speeds on RBS850 are much slower since switching to Fiber Internet with Nokia modem

HJJONES01
Aspirant

Orbi speeds on RBS850 are much slower since switching to Fiber Internet with Nokia modem

I just upgraded to fiber internet yesterday since it recently became available. When doing the Orbi internal app speed test, it is showing over 1GB up and down. However when doing the speedtest.net app for wifi speed around the house, I am seeing speeds from 500MB down to 120MB at times. 

 

I have Firmware: v4.6.14.3

 

My ISP uses a Nokia Corteca (XS 246X-A) router/modem. They turned off the wifi so it serves solely as a modem. I am taking the highest output lan port and running it into the input of my RBR850 Orbi router. I did a power cycle and re-sync but still no improvement. I am very disappointed as I purchased this Orbi AX6000 system in anticipation of fiber internet that I thought would be available in 2022 when I bought this. But now I am without support and do not know what to do and may have to go to adding two additional Nokia devices to recreate a mesh system and disconnecting my Orbi since these speeds are unacceptable.

 

Should I have had to do a factory reset in this situation?

I logged into my admin account and noticed my 5GHz channel is set to 48 and the 2.4GHz is set to Auto.

 

Any other setting tweaks that I may be able to do?  Should I not expect Orbi AX600 to be able to reproduce the 1GB speed from the satellites?  I hard wired my laptop into my living room satellite and got 320MB down and 760 up. 

 

Any help would be appreciated. 

Message 1 of 35

Accepted Solutions
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi speeds on RBS850 are much slower since switching to Fiber Internet with Nokia modem

Glad you got it working. Please mark your thread as solved so others will know. Be sure to save off a back up configuration to file for safe keeping. Saves time if a reset is needed.
https://kb.netgear.com/000062080/How-do-I-back-up-the-configuration-settings-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-System
Enjoy. 📡

View solution in original post

Message 35 of 35

All Replies
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi speeds on RBS850 are much slower since switching to Fiber Internet with Nokia modem

What are speeds seen with a ethernet wired PC connected to the back of the RBR and testing with Ooklas installable speed test app? 

 

What wireless devices are you speed testing with? 

FYI: 

https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/realistic-speeds-wi-fi-5-and-wi-fi-6
https://www.duckware.com/tech/wifi-in-the-us.html
https://support.google.com/fiber/answer/6250056#zippy=%2Cmobile-devices-wi-fi

 

Speeds can vary based on device design and support and where the device is connected to in relation to where your testing at and distances, building materials and placement of the RBS from the RBR. 

 

Be sure to disable any MAC Address randomizers on phones and pads while at home:
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-App/NETGEAR-Mobile-Applications-and-Apple-Devices-FAQ/td-p/222...

 

Also FW is behind:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-WIFI-6-AX-AND-Wi-Fi-6E-AXE/New-RBR850-RBS850-Firmware-Version-...

Message 2 of 35
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Orbi speeds on RBS850 are much slower since switching to Fiber Internet with Nokia modem


@HJJONES01 wrote:

 when doing the speedtest.net app for wifi speed around the house, I am seeing speeds from 500MB down to 120MB at times. 


WiFi speed is affected by:

  • The type of WiFi adapter in the device. (WiFi5 cannot achieve the same speed as WiFi6)
  • Distance from the WiFi access point.  This makes a dramatic difference.
  • Material in the direct path between device and access point

These factors also affect the link between router and satellites.  The farther apart they are, the slower the transmission between them.  This could affect the speed reported when connecting a laptop to one of the satellites.

 

p.s. Disabling the ISP device WiFi is not the same as making it "only a modem".  This can be tested by comparing the IP address shown on the Orbi Advanced Tab home page with the IP address reported by one of the "what's my IP" web sites.

 

 

Message 3 of 35
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Orbi speeds on RBS850 are much slower since switching to Fiber Internet with Nokia modem

As @FURRYe38 pointed out, one of the annoying features of Netgear's Orbi platform is that the router does not detect and report new firmware until someone at Netgear "does something" to cause the Firmware Update feature to become aware of it.  This can take some time.  (For example, new firmware was released for the original RBR50 router in Feb 2023, but users continue to report that their router reports "no new firmware" to this day. Over a year later!)

 

The latest firmware for the 850 product was released in Sept 2023.  Personally, I think it makes sense to give "early adopters" who constantly watch the support web site a chance to manually install new firmware and discover whether the quality assurance process worked well (or not).  One would think that six months would be enough time for that.  (certainly a full year in my case!)

 

p.s. (again)  Is the Subject line on the post accurate?  i.e. WiFi speeds were higher before changing to fiber internet?

Message 4 of 35
HJJONES01
Aspirant

Re: Orbi speeds on RBS850 are much slower since switching to Fiber Internet with Nokia modem

I just connected an available cat 5e ethernet cable to my iMac desktop near the Orbi router. At Ookla speedtest site, I get 938.15 download and 937.66 upload.

 

The devices I am using around the house to test my connection speed is an iPhone 12max and last year's model iPad so I know both my iPads are Wi-Fi 6 compatible.

 

The bottom line though is my previous ISP was Cable internet capped at 500MB. I regularly got speed tests at or slightly above 500MB with same Orbi system and satellite locations.

 

It is standard procedure for the new Fiber ISP to turn off Wi-fi to allow customers to use existing mesh equipment. I do have a ticket escalated with them to see if there is anything else.

Message 5 of 35
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Orbi speeds on RBS850 are much slower since switching to Fiber Internet with Nokia modem

Thanks.  The LAN ports on the RBR850 router are gigabit Ethernet, so the highest possible speed is "just under" 1 gigabit.

When the iPhone and iPad are very close to the router, what speeds do they report?

 

Whether the fiber device routing function has been disabled (or not) is mostly academic unless there are specific applications being used.  (Internet search for "Double NAT" for examples.) 

Message 6 of 35
HJJONES01
Aspirant

Re: Orbi speeds on RBS850 are much slower since switching to Fiber Internet with Nokia modem

Near router speedtest on iPhone 12 is just 544MB down and 234MB up.

On my iPad it was 570 up and 475 down.

 

So something is off. I noticed the post above that I may not be on latest Firmware. But when I do the check from admin setup it shows no further updates. But I guess it may be available manually to do. If so then I have to figure out how to do that. If it is recommended. 

Message 7 of 35
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi speeds on RBS850 are much slower since switching to Fiber Internet with Nokia modem

Would be around to spec speeds seen on these devices. I get same or maybe nearer to 600Mbps with my iPhone 12 Pro Max. I can see near 700Mbps sometimes while at the RBR. These devices will never see near or over 900Mpbs due to them being 2x2 mimo devices. 

Message 8 of 35
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Orbi speeds on RBS850 are much slower since switching to Fiber Internet with Nokia modem


@HJJONES01 wrote:

But I guess it may be available manually to do. If so then I have to figure out how to do that. If it is recommended. 


Manual firmware update is "up to the user". There appear to be several philosophies:

  • Early adopters, also knows as "Fools rush in where angels...."
    (lemme at it. I'll try anything!)
  • "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."  If the system is meeting expectations, why take even a tiny chance of something going wrong?
  • Does it offer something?  In this specific instance, Netgear added the ability to create another WiFi network (SSID).  They call it "IoT" because it is intended to address the issue of devices which are difficult to connect to WiFi because their smartphone software is poorly written.  IoT allows the user to disable 5G WiFi (and turn it back on again).
    (I have never needed another WiFi SSID consuming bandwidth, so it would not be useful to me.)

Instructions for manual update can be found here:

https://kb.netgear.com/31573/How-do-I-manually-upgrade-firmware-on-my-Orbi-router-using-orbilogin-co... 

Message 9 of 35
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi speeds on RBS850 are much slower since switching to Fiber Internet with Nokia modem

Message 10 of 35
HJJONES01
Aspirant

Re: Orbi speeds on RBS850 are much slower since switching to Fiber Internet with Nokia modem

Thanks for the quick feedback. Other than potentially being an early adopter of the newest firmware, is there anything else I can do in the admin settings like trying a different channel for the 5GHz? 

 

I do not really want to do a factory reset but what I have now is not sustainable as my wife now is complaining about slow speeds in her office upstairs and she says it drops. I have to do something but am not sure the Firmware is going to resolve this.

 

Again, my speed tests with these same apple devices were much better and more stable with the cable internet so something is different now. Still waiting on the escalated callback on my ISP ticket. But in the end they will fall back on the fact that this is a third party device. 

Message 11 of 35
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi speeds on RBS850 are much slower since switching to Fiber Internet with Nokia modem

What is the Mfr and model# of the Internet Service Providers modem/ONT the NG router is connected too?
Be sure your using a good quality LAN cable between the modem and router. CAT6A STP is recommended. 

If your ISP Modem already has a built in router and wifi. This would be a double NAT (two router) condition which isn't recommended. https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT
https://kb.netgear.com/30187/How-to-fix-issues-with-Double-NAT
Couple of options,
1. Configure the modem for transparent bridge or modem only mode. Then use the Orbi router in router mode. You'll need to contact the ISP for help and information in regards to the modem being bridged correctly.
2. If you can't bridge the modem, disable ALL wifi radios on the modem, configure the modems DMZ/ExposedHost or IP Pass-Through for the IP address the Orbi router gets from the modem. Then you can use the Orbi router in Router mode.
3. Or disable all wifi radios on the modem and connect the Orbi router to the modem, configure AP mode on the Orbi router. https://kb.netgear.com/31218/How-do-I-configure-my-Orbi-router-to-act-as-an-access-point and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7LOcJ8GdDo&app=desktop

Try option #2 first...

 

How many RBS are deployed? 
What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router 📡 and satellite(s)🛰️? 30 feet or more is recommended in between RBR 📡 and RBS 🛰️ to begin with depending upon building materials when wired or wirelessly connected.
https://kb.netgear.com/31029/Where-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite ‌‌🛰

 

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and 40 to 48 channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

 

Try disabling the following and see:
Armor, Smart Parental Controls or Circle, Traffic Meter.

Message 12 of 35
HJJONES01
Aspirant

Re: Orbi speeds on RBS850 are much slower since switching to Fiber Internet with Nokia modem

What is the Mfr and model# of the Internet Service Providers modem/ONT the NG router is connected too?

Nokia Model: XS-2426X-A

 

 

Be sure your using a good quality LAN cable between the modem and router. CAT6A STP is recommended. 

I am using new CAT 8 cable I had bought last year and never used. This the cable connecting the Nokia router to my Orbi Router. 

 

 

If your ISP Modem already has a built in router and wifi. This would be a double NAT (two router) condition which isn't recommended. https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT
https://kb.netgear.com/30187/How-to-fix-issues-with-Double-NAT

 

I talked to the ISP escalation technician a few minutes ago. He confirmed the double NAT is in play here. But he said he was not sure that is the culprit because he has a similar setup at his house with no issue although he has a different ISP based on where he lived. He mentioned he will research further and see if there is a way to setup a bridge to bypass it to remove the double NAT as a potential issue. 

 


Couple of options,
1. Configure the modem for transparent bridge or modem only mode. Then use the Orbi router in router mode. You'll need to contact the ISP for help and information in regards to the modem being bridged correctly.
2. If you can't bridge the modem, disable ALL wifi radios on the modem, configure the modems DMZ/ExposedHost or IP Pass-Through for the IP address the Orbi router gets from the modem. Then you can use the Orbi router in Router mode.
3. Or disable all wifi radios on the modem and connect the Orbi router to the modem, configure AP mode on the Orbi router. https://kb.netgear.com/31218/How-do-I-configure-my-Orbi-router-to-act-as-an-access-point and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7LOcJ8GdDo&app=desktop

Try option #2 first...

 

How many RBS are deployed? 

I have two satellites. (RBS850)

 


What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?

Two story approximately 3000sq ft


What is the distance between the router 📡 and satellite(s)🛰️? 30 feet or more is recommended in between RBR 📡 and RBS 🛰️ to begin with depending upon building materials when wired or wirelessly connected.
https://kb.netgear.com/31029/Where-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite ‌‌🛰

Placement of downstairs satellite is within 40 feet and is in the same location last two years with cable ISP.

The second satellite is upstairs above the living room satellite in our Master Bedroom.

 

 

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and 40 to 48 channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

Channel 48 for 5 GHz and setting is on Auto for 2.4Ghz

Everyone around me has Internet but it is in a suburb and not like an apartment. But the number of other internet users was still the same prior to yesterday when I was on cable internet at 500MB.

 

Try disabling the following and see:
Armor, Smart Parental Controls or Circle, Traffic Meter.

I was able to locate the admin setting to turn off Traffic Meter. The Parental controls were never turned on and Armor is expired and not active.

 

***Additional Notes:

After talking to the escalation technician, we also decided to turn on the wi-fi antenna on the Nokia for me to test with tonight. We will discuss additional options tomorrow.

Message 13 of 35
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi speeds on RBS850 are much slower since switching to Fiber Internet with Nokia modem

I would give option #2 a try tomorrow with the ISP modem/router. 

Message 14 of 35
HJJONES01
Aspirant

Re: Orbi speeds on RBS850 are much slower since switching to Fiber Internet with Nokia modem

Yes I will make sure he tries option 2. I think this was one of the things he wanted to try later today when he calls me back. They have to figure out something because my "upgrade" to fiber internet after all of these years of waiting has turned into a downgrade from my 500MB cable ISP. With cable I was consistently getting in the 500's or slightly below or above using my same Orbi setup. So something has to be done to open it up or I may have to revert back to cable ISP. I still have not cancelled it but the modem obviously was disconnected and put aside to be returned. 

 

I will provide an update later. Thanks again for the suggestions. 

Message 15 of 35
HJJONES01
Aspirant

Re: Orbi speeds on RBS850 are much slower since switching to Fiber Internet with Nokia modem

After speaking to the technician, he is telling me the bridge bypass would be a lengthy process for them and they do not want to pursue that option. For testing purposes, he bumped me up to their 2.5GB fiber tier. When I did the internal Orbi speed test, I saw 2319.41 Mbps down and 2236.02 up. However, when we did the speed test on ethernet connected iMac it was only 900 range down and up as it was when I was at the 1GB tier but that is a hardware limitation it seems.

 

My question though is whether that internal speedtest on Orbi app is it expected that the satellites would see that same 2319/2236 speed? Or maybe slightly below? Because doing the speedtest on my apple devices, I am still only seeing 700MB down range in the room with the Orbi router. Then in the living room and upstairs I am only seeing 200-300MB range.

 

I understand the double NAT may still be impacting but is there anything else limiting the speed at the two satellites and what does that internal speed the Orbi App speed  really mean because I am not seeing that translated to the Satellites or on wireless speed tests which I know I may be limited on those devices to 1GB or less.

Message 16 of 35
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi speeds on RBS850 are much slower since switching to Fiber Internet with Nokia modem

Internal speed test on the RBR is from the RBRs 2.5Gb WAN port out to the ISP modem. So ya, the speed test on the RBR should now near those speeds. Wifi speeds on the RBS should be near that as well, however you'd need a 4x4 MIMO wifi supporting devices to test that out. Connection if the RBS are close enough and the signal is good enough between the RBR and RBS should be 2400Mpbs. Distances and building materials will effect this.

And the speed seen at the iMac when ethernet connect is to spec as well since the LAN ports on the RBR and RBS are 1Gb only. So you won't see anything over 1Gb here. 

Message 17 of 35
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Orbi speeds on RBS850 are much slower since switching to Fiber Internet with Nokia modem


@HJJONES01 wrote:

when we did the speed test on ethernet connected iMac it was only 900 range down and up as it was when I was at the 1GB tier but that is a hardware limitation it seems.


Exactly.  The RBR850 LAN ports are gigabit Ethernet.  It is physically impossible to transmit more than "just under" one gigabit through that port.  If the speed limit on my street is 35 miles per hour, it doesn't matter what the speed limit is on the interstate.

Message 18 of 35
HJJONES01
Aspirant

Re: Orbi speeds on RBS850 are much slower since switching to Fiber Internet with Nokia modem

Thanks again for the responses. It is looking like the bridge mode option for the ISP router is not an option. I am inquiring with them to see if they have an available modem only ONT device. But as I finally got around to reading the link you all posted regarding double NAT solutions. My question is, how do I setup my Orbi router as an Access Point only if this becomes my last option?

 

Pasted text from that double NAT link:

 

If your NETGEAR or Orbi router is connected to an ISP gateway, you can resolve double NAT issues by putting your ISP gateway in bridge mode or turning the gateway’s WiFi off and putting your NETGEAR or Orbi router in access point (AP) mode.

We recommend that you put your ISP gateway in bridge mode for best network performance. If you can’t put it in bridge mode, you must turn its WiFi off and put your NETGEAR or Orbi router in AP mode. Some router features are disabled in AP mode.

Message 19 of 35
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi speeds on RBS850 are much slower since switching to Fiber Internet with Nokia modem

Message 20 of 35
HJJONES01
Aspirant

Re: Orbi speeds on RBS850 are much slower since switching to Fiber Internet with Nokia modem

Thanks. Sorry I should have known when I asked how to switch to AP mode that it was already in the original text.  

 

I did have the ISP technician turn the wifi back off the Nokia router and I have switched my RBR850 to AP mode. Initially it did not seem to make much difference on my speed tests from my phone and iPad. But I just connected ethernet directly to my living room satellite (RBS850) and I got 405 down and 801 up. I think the upload speed may be better than the first time I tested hardwired to that satellite. But the download speed is only slightly higher. My main concern is consistency throughout the house like I saw with the cable internet prior to switching to fiber 3 days ago. I will continue to test.

 

But the better news is that the ISP tech is working on a bridge solution and plans to have something ready to bring to my house by next Tuesday. So when he can provide a bridge solution then I will switch Orbi back to Router from AP where I have it now.  Hopefully that may provide even better results?  Still do not understand why my satellites are not reproducing the same speeds as the Orbi Router.

Message 21 of 35
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi speeds on RBS850 are much slower since switching to Fiber Internet with Nokia modem

Building materials and placement and distances will impact and be a factor in how RBS Wi-Fi performances are seen at the RBS. May not be the same as what you see at the RBR. 

Message 22 of 35
HJJONES01
Aspirant

Re: Orbi speeds on RBS850 are much slower since switching to Fiber Internet with Nokia modem

I understand structure impacts but in my case the only thing that has changed since I purchased this current Orbi 2 years ago is that 4 days ago I switched from cable internet to fiber. Currently in AP mode until the ISP can provide a bridged solution for their router/modem.

Message 23 of 35
HJJONES01
Aspirant

Re: Orbi speeds on RBS850 are much slower since switching to Fiber Internet with Nokia modem

Can someone tell me if there is a setting on a mobile device that controls the switching from one Wifi beacon/satellite to another? The reason I ask is that I notice when doing speed tests in my office and then walking into another room to do another speedtest, it seems the results are much lower initially in the other room. Unless I turn off Wifi and then let the phone reconnect to the nearest Wifi source.  Does some setting control that automatically happening?

 

Also, against better judgement, I picked up a 3rd RBS850 Satellite since they were on sale on Amazon. I have not connected it yet but was first waiting to see what improvement I get today when my ISP tech is bringing over a bridge device to replace their Router/Modem solution. I am hoping that alone gets me the same coverage with consistent signal as I was getting with cable.  But after that, I will try to add the new Satellite maybe upstairs in the room above my office then maybe it will link better to the main router and then conversely have a better connection to my other upstairs satellite on opposite side in my master bedroom and with the downstairs satellite located in the living room below the master bedroom area. If not I will return the satellite.  

Message 24 of 35
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi speeds on RBS850 are much slower since switching to Fiber Internet with Nokia modem

Some devices should have a feature called "Roaming". This is an automatic feature that should, in theory, help the wandering device to connect from one signal to another, when and if the signal gets to a low or bad state, the device, should seek out and connect to a better signal. However, depending upon development and testing of this feature, no body really knows how well this feature works. There is no manual connection adjustments on mobile devices. Best way to get a good signal is to shut off the wifi radio on the device for 5 seconds then back ON, specially for speed testing. 

 

 

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