Re: Backhaul breaks the whole network

Uso68 · ‎2018-06-23

I have the RBR50 with 2 satellites RBS50 running on the latest firmware V2.1.4.16.

I'm running in router mode.

The Orbi router is connected to the ISP modem on the yellow WAN port, and one of the ethernet ports is connected to my switch. That was connected like that from before because I wanted to Orbi to give out IP addresses to the wired devices (didn't want to use the ISP router's DHCP server).

I decided to give ethernet backhaul a try since the satellite is not close to the router and always disconnects.

As soon as I plugged the ethernet cable into the satellite everything stopped and working and came back when I removed the cable.

I've read a lot of posts in the forum but I'm more confused than ever. Couldn't really figure out a solution (besides waiting for a V2.2 firmware upgrade)

Does wired backhaul work or not? Am I doing something wrong?

StreckerCM · ‎2018-06-23

It is reassuring to see that someone else is having this issue I thought I was losing my mind!

I found another thread on a similar issue the opinion there was that it is possibly caused by having a switch between the router and the satellite. The last update was from March of this year and they said that the 2.2 firmware fixed the issue; however, I only see 2.1.4.16 which is the version all my devices are currently running.

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Ethernet-backhaul-kills-entire-network/td-p/1512365

Wired Backhaul Setup (takes out whole network)

Wired Backhual Setup

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-06-23

Any Network switches in between the router and satellite?

Whats the Mfr and model of the ISP modem that the Orbi is connected too?

Try disconnecting ALL other networking devices from the system before you step up wired back haul. Do a ERASE on the satellite. Add the satellite first via wireless, wait for the top led to turn on BLUE. Then connect the LAN cable between the router and satellite. Wait 5 minutes for the top led to turn on BLUE. May see Pink as well in between. Once it's set up. Confirm wired satellite appears in routers connected clients list. I would set up a IP address reservation for the satellite as well ON the router. I also changed the IP address pool on the router as well to a small size.

Been able to get back haul working on my friends new RBK50 series system.

Heres how it worked for me:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-firmware-update-v2-1-4-16-availability/m-p/1592753/highli...

StreckerCM · ‎2018-06-23

For me everything works as long as I keep both satellites wireless. I will try with everything disconnected but I cannot leave it that way the switch is in a closet and goes to a few rooms and is necessary .

I don’t see wha the cable modem has to do with it because it is working on that side but it is a Technicolor DPC3216

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-06-23

Whats the Mfr and model# of the switch? Managed or NON managed?

@StreckerCM wrote:
For me everything works as long as I keep both satellites wireless. I will try with everything disconnected but I cannot leave it that way the switch is in a closet and goes to a few rooms and is necessary .

I don’t see wha the cable modem has to do with it because it is working on that side but it is a Technicolor DPC3216

StreckerCM · ‎2018-06-23

The switch it is running throught is a NETGEAR GSS108E ProSAFE Click Switch. They are web mangaged switches but I am current just using it in the default setup. I only got them it week before I got the Orbi as part of a home network upgrade so I haven't done much other then upgrade the firmware.

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-06-23

Ok, know this that managed swiches are giving troubles with Orbi systems and wired back haul. Non managed switches, I have several, do not seem to give problems.

One user mentioned he found that disabling IGMP protocols on his managed switch helped him get wired back haul working.

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-MR-2-1-Update-3-23-18/m-p/1553421/highlight/true#M30664

I would do this, set up 1 of the satellites with a direct LAN cable connection with the Orbi router, you can do this in the same room near the router and see if you can get the 1 satellite connected and running on wired back haul with out going thru your switch. I was able to do this as well last weekend for my friends system. He doesn't have any switches. It was successful. I presume this will be for you as well.

The link I posted is the process I used. You can skip the FW updating information portion.

@StreckerCM wrote:

The switch it is running throught is a NETGEAR GSS108E ProSAFE Click Switch. They are web mangaged switches but I am current just using it in the default setup. I only got them it week before I got the Orbi as part of a home network upgrade so I haven't done much other then upgrade the firmware.

Uso68 · ‎2018-06-23

Yes, there is a switch between WAN router (Nighthawk R7000) and the Orbi base station. I can try by connecting Orbi directly to the WAN router and see what that does. I will try disconnecting all network devices also, setup Orbi then plug them back in and see.

It shouldn't be that difficult, Netgear should have clear instructions on what to do and what to avoid. disappointing.

regards

Uso68

StreckerCM · ‎2018-06-23

I tried it with disabling IGMP Snooping on the switch and it still knocks the network offline when I connect the satellite using ethernet. I will have to try tomorrow using a direct cable connection but that is purely an academic because where I need to place it there is no way to do a direct cable to it form the router.

Seems like ethernet backhaul still has some quirks so hopefully they can work them out in the future.

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-06-24

What is the Mfr and model of this managed switch?

You can always get a cheap non manged switch to put in plance between the Orbi router and satellite if you need.

You can find NG or D-Link DGS series 5 port switches for cheap on amazon.

StreckerCM · ‎2018-06-24

As stated before it is a NETGEAR GSS108E. I replaced a cheap switch with this in that location I will not be downgrading only to make the ethernet backhaul work. I will be putting in a support request to see if netgear will FIX this issue as it should not matter if there is a switch between the router and the satellite.

Thank you for the troubleshooting help but I don't consider downgrading my network hardware a solution at best it is a workaround.

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-06-24

Understand. Seems there are some odd issues with these managed switches and Orbi systems. I have also ask NG to review this.

Did you power cycle your switch after disabling IGMP protcols? Might try this along with power cycling the router and satellite. Let the MAC tables clear out and repolulate. I would disable Diasy chain ON the router as well to see if this help. Others have said this works, others have said enable it. I disabled it on my friends wired back haul system. Still working.

standarduser73 · ‎2018-07-10

I too am having issues with ethernet backhaul. It was working as expected prior to updating to 2.1.4.16. However, since the update, connecting the satellite via ether takes down the network. Just using some basic troubleshooting techniques, ping is constantly dropped when the satlleite is connected via ether. But ping isnt just dropped to the satellite, it is dropped to the router as well. With a client directly wired to the router, ping drops to the ROUTER when the satellite is connected. Something is definitely not right. The satellite is directly wired to the router. I have tried several configurations, and the results remain the same. Dropped packets, connectivity issues, etc. The wireless backhaul is great and all, but in my house full of plaster and chicken wire, each room is essentially its own Faraday Cage. This makes the wireless backhaul sketchy at best. Seeing this seems to be systemic issue, when can we expect Netgear to release a new Orbi firmware? If there are any beta programs for 2.2 available to sign up for, I will be happy to be a guinea pig.

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-07-10

Did you power down the entire system for 30 seconds then power back on? Then give 5 minutes to wait for the top led to turn on Blue?

You may need to factory reset and set up the system from scratch as last resort.

Any network switches in between the router and satellites? Mfr and model# if you do.

Review this to see if this helps you:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/OrbiOS-2-1-4-10-kills-Internet-access-if-you-use-Ethernet-back...

@standarduser73 wrote:

I too am having issues with ethernet backhaul. It was working as expected prior to updating to 2.1.4.16. However, since the update, connecting the satellite via ether takes down the network. Just using some basic troubleshooting techniques, ping is constantly dropped when the satlleite is connected via ether. But ping isnt just dropped to the satellite, it is dropped to the router as well. With a client directly wired to the router, ping drops to the ROUTER when the satellite is connected. Something is definitely not right. The satellite is directly wired to the router. I have tried several configurations, and the results remain the same. Dropped packets, connectivity issues, etc. The wireless backhaul is great and all, but in my house full of plaster and chicken wire, each room is essentially its own Faraday Cage. This makes the wireless backhaul sketchy at best. Seeing this seems to be systemic issue, when can we expect Netgear to release a new Orbi firmware? If there are any beta programs for 2.2 available to sign up for, I will be happy to be a guinea pig.

standarduser73 · ‎2018-07-10

No switches to speak of. Ether directly from the router directly to the sattelite. The system has been completely offline for several minutes. The factory reset has been done, multiple times. I had no ether backhaul issues prior to f/w 4.16. This is a new, and very vexing, issue. It is reminiscent of seeing duplicate IPs on the same network, but they aren't duped IPs.

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-07-10

Ok, so after setting up the satellites via wireless first, can you do a IP address reservation on the router for each satellite. Save and apply the setting. Router will reboot I think. wait for ready. I would also disconntect ALL other LAN network devices from the router accept for one wired LAN PC. Then try connecting the wired LAN cable of one satellite and let it re-configure the connection. Wait 5 minutes, You should see the top led turn on PINK, then wait longer, then it should turn BLUE. Test for internet access thru the satellite.

If you can get to this state, then reconnect all other LAN devices to the router.

I presume the satellites are on same version of FW?

@standarduser73 wrote:

No switches to speak of. Ether directly from the router directly to the sattelite. The system has been completely offline for several minutes. The factory reset has been done, multiple times. I had no ether backhaul issues prior to f/w 4.16. This is a new, and very vexing, issue. It is reminiscent of seeing duplicate IPs on the same network, but they aren't duped IPs.

franktribe · ‎2018-07-10

I thought I would chime in here. Sorry for the interruption. I want to first start by saying, I really like my Orbi. I have been very happy with it. But, I also understand that it is new technology and there are some techincal growing pains with it.

I have the RBR50 and two RBS50's. I also could not get the Ethernet Backhaul working after the latest update (it used to work on both satelittles. I can't even get one statelille to work with the other shut off. I do not have any switches between them. So, I decided to rearrange them in the house and just use the 5GHz backhaul. Since doing this, it works wonderfully. It is very stable. I have been very happy with it. Since I have them repositioned in good locations, the 5Ghz backhaul works for me. I am in the 3 story, 4000+SqFt home. Maybe someday I will try the Ethernet backhaul again but for some reason this type of connection isn't very stable for me. Maybe it's my cabling or something, not sure.

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-07-10

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/OrbiOS-2-1-4-10-kills-Internet-access-if-you-use-Ethernet-back...

@franktribe wrote:

I thought I would chime in here. Sorry for the interruption. I want to first start by saying, I really like my Orbi. I have been very happy with it. But, I also understand that it is new technology and there are some techincal growing pains with it.

I have the RBR50 and two RBS50's. I also could not get the Ethernet Backhaul working after the latest update (it used to work on both satelittles. I can't even get one statelille to work with the other shut off. I do not have any switches between them. So, I decided to rearrange them in the house and just use the 5GHz backhaul. Since doing this, it works wonderfully. It is very stable. I have been very happy with it. Since I have them repositioned in good locations, the 5Ghz backhaul works for me. I am in the 3 story, 4000+SqFt home. Maybe someday I will try the Ethernet backhaul again but for some reason this type of connection isn't very stable for me. Maybe it's my cabling or something, not sure.

Seartrip · ‎2018-07-31

Same issue: adding an RBS50 via ethernet brought down my entire network. I added it via ethernet (cable) initially, and it worked, but when I plugged in one new device to the RBS50's ethernet ports my network went down. Power cycles didn't bring it back. I suspect something went wrong when the RBS50 was trying to update it's firmware to match the router and other satellite but I'm not sure.

Long story short- I completely removed the new RBS50 from the network, and rebooted the router. The network came up. Then I added the new RBS50 wirelessly first, allowing enough time and verifying that the firmware updated to the same level as the original Orbi devices. It takes a few minutes. Once I confirmed it was up and stable, I made the ethernet connection for the new RBS50 and everything is working fine now. I was also able to add the additional cabled device to the new RBS50 and the network is fine.

So if it helps anyone, add the new satellite wirelessly first and allow the firmware to update and be consistent. Then move to ethernet backhaul. Also, my firmware was version 2.1.4.16 (latest one I think).

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-07-31

Ya, setting up a new system, the devices should be updated first before attempting to connect ethernet wired back haul. I set up my friends system and kind of already new I had to get everything updated. I did update the devices via wireless first. Did the satellites first then router. Did all this in the same room with the router and satellites, after I got FW updated and ethernet back haul tested and verified in same room, I then moved the satellite to it's final remote location. He's happy:

@Seartrip wrote:

Same issue: adding an RBS50 via ethernet brought down my entire network. I added it via ethernet (cable) initially, and it worked, but when I plugged in one new device to the RBS50's ethernet ports my network went down. Power cycles didn't bring it back. I suspect something went wrong when the RBS50 was trying to update it's firmware to match the router and other satellite but I'm not sure.

Long story short- I completely removed the new RBS50 from the network, and rebooted the router. The network came up. Then I added the new RBS50 wirelessly first, allowing enough time and verifying that the firmware updated to the same level as the original Orbi devices. It takes a few minutes. Once I confirmed it was up and stable, I made the ethernet connection for the new RBS50 and everything is working fine now. I was also able to add the additional cabled device to the new RBS50 and the network is fine.

So if it helps anyone, add the new satellite wirelessly first and allow the firmware to update and be consistent. Then move to ethernet backhaul. Also, my firmware was version 2.1.4.16 (latest one I think).

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-firmware-update-v2-1-4-16-availability/m-p/1592753/highli...