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Help with Optimum (Altice) Fiber and Router that cannot bridge

Instarand
Luminary

Help with Optimum (Altice) Fiber and Router that cannot bridge

Hi Folks-

 

My ISP (Optimum) recently upgraded my house to Fiber lines.  The "Altice" modem/router combo cannot be bridged, according to Optimum tech support.  The label underneath says "FiberGateway GR240BG."  They claim that the bride feature is in the works, but not available yet.  They did leave me with a couple of "repeaters" but I still can't seem to get solid Wifi at all ends of my house.  My goal: use my existing Orbi RBR50 router + (2) RBS50's satellites OR any other system recommended in order to maximize wifi connection and speed throughout my house (3 floors, 5000 sq. ft with exterior Nest Cameras). 


So far, I have connected the Orbi router into the Altice router, set the Orbi to AP mode.  I changed the wifi settings within the Orbi AP settings screen to match the SSID and Password from the Altice Router.  Then I setup the two satellites - everything appears to be connected.  However, I am still getting poor internet speeds at the far end of the house - even though signal is strong to the satellites.  

 

1. Is this the best way to optimize my Wifi? Should I upgrade to a faster Orbi setup?

 

2. Should I simply ask for more "repeaters" from the ISP?

 

3. Theoretically, is there some loss of speed when connecting the Orbi Router to the Altice Router via CAT6?  I'm told I have 1 gbit fiber - but even standing next to the altice router i am only testing at around 200 down and 200 up.  and at the far end of the house, it's like 10 and 10.

 

Thoughts from the group?  

 

 

Model: RBR50|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 1 of 31
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Help with Optimum (Altice) Fiber and Router that cannot bridge

Generally speaking, it is not a good idea to have both the ISP WiFi and the Orbi WiFi blasting away at the same time.  And also not a good idea for them to have the same SSID/password.  Devices will not "hand off" between the ISP WiFi and Orbi WiFi as they will between Orbi units.

I love my Orbi.
Message 2 of 31
Instarand
Luminary

Re: Help with Optimum (Altice) Fiber and Router that cannot bridge

Thanks for the quick reply.  Is there a way to turn off the Wifi at the Altice router?

Message 3 of 31
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Help with Optimum (Altice) Fiber and Router that cannot bridge

Contact the ISP or look up the mfr of the modems support site for user manual on how to disable the wifi radios on the modem. 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM1200 Modem |  Wifi Router Orbi RBK752 (Router Mode), Wired Backhaul and R8500 with Orbi RBKE963 (AP Mode), | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700

Message 4 of 31
Instarand
Luminary

Re: Help with Optimum (Altice) Fiber and Router that cannot bridge

Do you suspect that doing this will give me better performance?  I realize the Orbi is a good unit, but the ISP router has fiber in.  Do you think you'd lose some speed by connecting from the router, via cat6, into the orbi before sending out wifi signal to the satellites?  

 

Should i be exhausting all options with the ISP by adding more of their repeaters?  Or would you say that hands-down, turning off Wifi at the ISP router, then using Orbi in AP mode and Orbi Satellites is certianly the path to best performance?

Message 5 of 31
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Help with Optimum (Altice) Fiber and Router that cannot bridge

I would disable the wifi on the ISP modem and test out the Orbi system for your self. 

I believe the Orbi is a better product. 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM1200 Modem |  Wifi Router Orbi RBK752 (Router Mode), Wired Backhaul and R8500 with Orbi RBKE963 (AP Mode), | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700

Message 6 of 31
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Help with Optimum (Altice) Fiber and Router that cannot bridge

If this is your unit, page 44 says that pressing the WPS button for 5 seconds will turn the WiFi ratios on or off.

https://fccid.io/2ACJF-FGW-GR240BG/User-Manual/Users-manual-3621380 

I love my Orbi.
Message 7 of 31
Instarand
Luminary

Re: Help with Optimum (Altice) Fiber and Router that cannot bridge

Thanks for all the replies, folks. Here’s where I’m at:

I have the Altice router connected to my Orbi router. I have the Orbi in AP mode, and in the AP configuration screen I changed the SSID to something different than the Altice router.

So far, everything seems to be working fine. I’m unable to turn the WiFi off on the Altice box so I see that it shows up as a WiFi option on my devices. However, I’m just connecting to the Orbi SSID instead.

Have I avoided a double Nat situation by giving the Orbi a different SSID? If not, what’s the downside to double Nat since everything is working just fine?

I was going to try the DMZ route but since everything is working I’m thinking it’s not necessary.

Next question: if I’m going to use a network switch and hardwire both routers and my 2 satellites, do you folks know which port configuration to use? Altice router/Orbi router/2 satellites.
Message 8 of 31
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Help with Optimum (Altice) Fiber and Router that cannot bridge


@Instarand wrote:
I have the Altice router connected to my Orbi router. I have the Orbi in AP mode, and in the AP configuration screen I changed the SSID to something different than the Altice router.
Have I avoided a double Nat situation by giving the Orbi a different SSID? If not, what’s the downside to double Nat since everything is working just fine?

WiFi SSID has nothing to do with "Double NAT".  By putting the Orbi in Access Point (AP) mode, you now have only a single router (the Altie).  No "Double NAT".

 

The downside to having the Altice blasting away with WiFi is that it competes with the Orbi for signal strength and capacity.  There should be a method to disable the Altice WiFi.

 


@Instarand wrote:
Next question: if I’m going to use a network switch and hardwire both routers and my 2 satellites, do you folks know which port configuration to use? Altice router/Orbi router/2 satellites.

The Orbi expects satellites to be connected to the LAN ports.  So, it should be Altice/Orbi/switch/satellites.  The only possible complication is with the switch.  There are reports that Orbi does not "do well" with certain switches.  Generally, a "non-managed" switch is preferred and any IGMP Snooping should be disabled.  So, the optimal solution would be:

Altice/Orbi, then

LAN port 1 - satellite 1

LAN port 2 - satellite 2

LAN port 3 - switch to connect everything else.

I love my Orbi.
Message 9 of 31

Re: Help with Optimum (Altice) Fiber and Router that cannot bridge


@CrimpOn wrote:

 

There should be a method to disable the Altice WiFi.

 


Indeed.

 

The manual in an earlier link says that you can turn off the wifi on the Altice by pressing the WPS button for 5 seconds.

 

 

Just another user.

My network DM200 -> R7800 -> GS316 -> PL1000 -> Orbi RBR40 -> Orbi RBS50Y -> RBS40V
Message 10 of 31
Instarand
Luminary

Re: Help with Optimum (Altice) Fiber and Router that cannot bridge

Yes, I tried that. It doesn’t appear to do anything. When you press and hold for 5 seconds the WPS light blinks for a while and then goes back to normal. The Altice WiFi SSID is always visible. Perhaps Optimum has disabled that feature?
Message 11 of 31
Instarand
Luminary

Re: Help with Optimum (Altice) Fiber and Router that cannot bridge

If I Try to use a switch, does The Altice and the Orbi Router have to be connected directly? I’d like to put the Orbi router in another location and wire it into the switch. Is that possible with also having 2 satellites hard wired into the switch?
Message 12 of 31
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Help with Optimum (Altice) Fiber and Router that cannot bridge


@Instarand wrote:
Yes, I tried that. It doesn’t appear to do anything. When you press and hold for 5 seconds the WPS light blinks for a while and then goes back to normal. The Altice WiFi SSID is always visible. Perhaps Optimum has disabled that feature?

Well, fudge.  I have found several links that all say the same thing:

Page 44: https://usermanual.wiki/Altice-Labs/FGW-GR240BG/html 

 

The Altice appears to have the same sort of administrative web interface as most routers, where you can log and find a menu of setup options: https://www.192-168-1-1-ip.co/router/altice-labs/FiberGateway%20GR240BG/3029/ 

I love my Orbi.
Message 13 of 31
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Help with Optimum (Altice) Fiber and Router that cannot bridge


@Instarand wrote:
If I Try to use a switch, does The Altice and the Orbi Router have to be connected directly? I’d like to put the Orbi router in another location and wire it into the switch. Is that possible with also having 2 satellites hard wired into the switch?

If the satellites are connected to the router over WiFi, this would work fine.

When satellites are connected with ethernet, this does not meet the Orbi design.  By design, the Orbi thinks that the WAN (yellow) port connects it to the internet and that satellites are connected to the LAN (white) jacks.

 

There is no harm in experimenting, but I would be prepared for disappointment.

I love my Orbi.
Message 14 of 31
Instarand
Luminary

Re: Help with Optimum (Altice) Fiber and Router that cannot bridge

When optimum installed the new fiber connection, they obviously left the router where the lines enter the house. Which is in the basement on one far end of the house. So the Altice router and Orbi router are down there. It’s a less than ideal location for the router since I need to bounce WiFi to the satellites 2 or three times. But only the first satellite is actually receiving signal from the Orbi router, the other satellites are getting signal from another satellite. I’m speed testing at like 500 down and 500 up standing next to the Orbi router. But when upstairs at the far end of the house (2 floors up and opposite end of house) I am getting very slow connections (like 30 down 15 up). I assumed that if I hard wired the satellites, they’d be receiving router like connections at the other end of the house. Is this not the case? Ideas for alternative setup?
Message 15 of 31
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Help with Optimum (Altice) Fiber and Router that cannot bridge


@Instarand wrote:
When optimum installed the new fiber connection, they obviously left the router where the lines enter the house. Which is in the basement on one far end of the house. So the Altice router and Orbi router are down there. It’s a less than ideal location for the router since I need to bounce WiFi to the satellites 2 or three times. But only the first satellite is actually receiving signal from the Orbi router, the other satellites are getting signal from another satellite. I’m speed testing at like 500 down and 500 up standing next to the Orbi router. But when upstairs at the far end of the house (2 floors up and opposite end of house) I am getting very slow connections (like 30 down 15 up). I assumed that if I hard wired the satellites, they’d be receiving router like connections at the other end of the house. Is this not the case? Ideas for alternative setup?

Yes, this is a typical practice for installers.  Really unfortunate.  And, the reason I purchased my Orbi system.

 

This is a good time to ask about the ethernet wiring.

  • Is it already in place, with cable running from that point in the basement to various locations around the building where you would like to place the Orbi units (and other devices)?
    If this is the case, then the "correct" practice would be to install one new ethernet cable from the hub to the Orbi router location.
    (i.e. one cable to the WAN port and one cable back from a LAN port to the switch.)
  • Or, is the intention to install ethernet wire from a central point to all these locations?
    If this is the case, then one ethernet can go from the Altice router to the Orbi in the new location, which is connected to the switch in the new location, which then feeds the Orbi satellites (and other devices).
I love my Orbi.
Message 16 of 31
Instarand
Luminary

Re: Help with Optimum (Altice) Fiber and Router that cannot bridge

My house is already wired with cat5e Ethernet outlets - and fortunately they all lead to where the Altice router is now (where fiber lines enter). They were previously used for phone lines which are no longer needed.

If possible, I’d really love to get the router to one of the hard wire locations instead of in the basement - if that’s possible to do via switch or by connecting that cat5e line direct to the Altice. My thought was hard wire the Orbi router somewhere central in the house - obviously leave the Altice router in the basement with the fiber line. And then hard wire satellites at various locations throughout the house.

Should everything go into the switch? Or should I hook the Orbi cable directly into the Altice router and then route the satellites through a switch?

Or is it better to leave the Orbi in the basement directly connected to the Altice router, and then connect the hard wired satellites directly into the Orbi ports and leave the switch out of the equation all together?
Message 17 of 31
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Help with Optimum (Altice) Fiber and Router that cannot bridge

The Altice must connect to the optical fiber (the green "PON" port at the bottom), so it must remain in the basement.

Unless there is a lot of WiFi usage in the basement, it would be much better to move the Orbi router upstairs where it can be connected to the Altair with ethernet. (It can ONLY connect to the Altair with ethernet.)

 

At that point, you have more choices.  The WiFi backhaul connection between the Orbi router and satellites may be "good enough" and essentially "you're done."  If the router can be centrally located, maybe the satellites can be placed close enough to get a good signal and still cover the remaining living space.

 

You will know very quickly if the Cat5e cable was properly installed and terminated when you hook up the router.  On the Advanced Tab, click on the blue box "Show Statistics".  If the WAN link shows as 1000M/Full, then the router is connected to the Altair at full speed.

I love my Orbi.
Message 18 of 31
Instarand
Luminary

Re: Help with Optimum (Altice) Fiber and Router that cannot bridge

I realize this is a ridiculous drawing. But if I were to connect satellites hard wire, which option is best?

1) no switch, satellites hard wired to Orbi directly, then Orbi to Altice directly.

2) satellites into switch. Switch to Orbi. Orbi to Altice.

3) everything to switch.



Message 19 of 31
Instarand
Luminary

Re: Help with Optimum (Altice) Fiber and Router that cannot bridge

The reason for the above question is because there really is no central location in my house that is hard wired for the Orbi router to go. So regardless of what I do, I’d really like to hard wire satellites if that’ll get stronger signal from those satellites.
Message 20 of 31
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Help with Optimum (Altice) Fiber and Router that cannot bridge

These are great drawings.

 

#1 "works" as long as this layout provides adequate coverage of the areas that need coverage.

  • Requires no additional equipment.
  • Requires no additional ethernet wire.
  • Can be tested immediately.
  • May not be a great use of the Orbi WiFi in the basement if there are no WiFi devices in the basement.
  • Additonal devices can be wired to the two upstairs satellites.
  • One Orbi LAN port remains which can be used to connect one additional upstairs device to the Orbi if ethernet wire goes to the location where the device is placed.

#2 also "works"

  • Provides three WiFi units upstairs for greater upstairs coverage.
  • Provides less coverage in the downstairs, where there may be no need for.
  • Provides three Orbi units that upstairs devices can be wired to.
  • Provides additional ethernet ports that other upstairs devices can be wired to if there is ethernet wiring to the location where those devices are placed.
  • Requires addition of an inexpensive, unmanaged gigabit switch (under $40).
  • BUT, requires a new ethernet installation back to the Altice location.

#3 does not work as shown.  The Altice should be connected directly to the Orbi and the Orbi connected to the new switch.

  • Allows more upstairs devices to be "wired" to the downstairs Orbi, even if they are not in the same room with the Orbi satellites.
  • But, the downstairs Orbi WiFi may be "wasted" and upstairs coverage may suffer.
  • Requires addition of an inexpensive, unmanaged gigabit switch. (under $40)

I suggest you start with option #1 and check out the upstairs WiFi coverage.  If it is what you need, then you are done.

If upstairs coverage is NOT adequate, then #3 will not be any better, so installing another ethernet cable to the Orbi location is the next step.

I love my Orbi.
Message 21 of 31
Instarand
Luminary

Re: Help with Optimum (Altice) Fiber and Router that cannot bridge

Thank you for your continued comments and input. Do you accept gratuity??? 🙂

Question: in option number 2, why would I need an additional line installed? Am I able to connect the Orbi router into an existing Ethernet port in my house? I’d then go and find that line in the basement and connect direct into the Altice...
Message 22 of 31
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Help with Optimum (Altice) Fiber and Router that cannot bridge

That is because #2 shows TWO lines between the Orbi and the basement.  (one to the Altice and one to the swwitch = two).

I love my Orbi.
Message 23 of 31
Instarand
Luminary

Re: Help with Optimum (Altice) Fiber and Router that cannot bridge

Oh right, duh!

Ok, second to last question. In option number 2, Which port am I using on the Orbi to the Altice and which am I using From the Orbi to the switch?

Final question (maybe!). Most of my pre-installed Ethernet cables are labeled CAT5E. However, some are labeled as you see in the attached photo. I assume these cables are NOT cat5e and will not carry gigabit speeds, correct?
Message 24 of 31
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Help with Optimum (Altice) Fiber and Router that cannot bridge

WAN (yellow) port on Orbi goes to Altice. any LAN (white) port goes to switch.

The photo did not appear to be attached, sorry.

 

Try again?

I love my Orbi.
Message 25 of 31
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