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RBK50 - Downloading large files slowing down entire network - QoS/SQM?

zmon
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RBK50 - Downloading large files slowing down entire network - QoS/SQM?

Hey all,

 

I've got an RBK50 system that I've been noticing will slow down my entire network when one computer is downloading a large file/game/whatever. I recently moved from cable (50/5) to fiber (250/250) and the problem has continued across the change. I know Netgear has a hidden QoS menu, but as far as I know, it doesn't work. WMM is on at the very least. Bufferbloat gives me a B test rating.

 

Not sure if there is any other setting I can change to fix this, other than buying a new mesh system. 

 

RBK50
Model: RBK53|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi System
Message 1 of 10
CrimpOn
Sage

Re: RBK50 - Downloading large files slowing down entire network - QoS/SQM?


@zmon wrote:

I've got an RBK50 system that I've been noticing will slow down my entire network when one computer is downloading a large file/game/whatever. I recently moved from cable (50/5) to fiber (250/250) and the problem has continued across the change. I know Netgear has a hidden QoS menu, but as far as I know, it doesn't work. WMM is on at the very least. Bufferbloat gives me a B test rating.

Not sure if there is any other setting I can change to fix this, other than buying a new mesh system. 


Thanks for posting about this issue.  In my four years with Orbi, I have yet to notice anything along this line.  My guess is that our internet usage is too low for the problem to manifest.

 

There is no setting for Smart Queue Management (SQM) on the Orbi. There appear to be built-in settings for QoS (The configuration contains a bunch of lines with "QoS" in the parameter file with titles describing different ports.) There is no user ability to display or modify these settings. And there also appears to be no concept of restricting certain devices by bandwidth. My Spectrum Cable Bufferbloat rating of F pales in comparison with your B.  But then, I have 220 down and 11 up.

 

Unless someone has published Bufferbloat reports on different WiFi routers, it seems to be a bit of a crapshoot trying to find a mesh router system that has SQM.  Bufferbload claims that the Nighthawk XR1000 Gaming Router works, but the Product Data Sheet for it does not mention the specific term "SQM". https://www.netgear.com/images/datasheet/networking/wifirouter/XR1000.pdf   The User Manual shows how to enable QoS settings in various ways.

 

So, if SQM equates to QoS settings, my guess is that reading User Manuals closely is the only way to find a product that meets your needs. It will not be any of the Orbi models.

I love my Orbi.
Message 2 of 10
moonie-man
Aspirant

Re: RBK50 - Downloading large files slowing down entire network - QoS/SQM?

I've also been having this issue lately, to the point where I cannot download anything larger than about 250MB, or else my remote connections to the office all die off and I have to wait for the download to finish (or not start it to begin with -- not practical!) before I can log back into my work computer.  I have the RBR750, and I found through different posts on this forum that http://orbilogin.net/QOS_main.htm will allow me to "change" the QoS settings. 

 

I put "change" in quotations, because no matter how I try to set QoS on this router, I either get "Invalid uplink bandwidth" or I get to login and try all over again.  Or perhaps something different happens and I get taken to a speed test page, where all I can do is test the bandwidth, and there is no mechanism to get back to the main page with the info collected from the test. 

Screen Shot 2021-09-15 at 3.08.25 PM.png

So I have to start all over again, and get the same "error" and get the same dumb process.  I am searching for a better mesh router, because clearly Netgear is not ready for prime time when it comes to providing a robust product that does the job I expect it to do. 

Message 3 of 10
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK50 - Downloading large files slowing down entire network - QoS/SQM?

Netgear has set up a community forum specifically for the Orbi AX (WiFi 6) products. Most of the people who watch that forum are more likely to have experience with Orbi AX and know how to work it better than those of us who follow this "general Orbi" forum. Might be more likely to find someone who has a solution if the question is posted there:
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-AX/bd-p/en-home-orbi-ax

Thank you.


@moonie-man wrote:

I've also been having this issue lately, to the point where I cannot download anything larger than about 250MB, or else my remote connections to the office all die off and I have to wait for the download to finish (or not start it to begin with -- not practical!) before I can log back into my work computer.  I have the RBR750, and I found through different posts on this forum that http://orbilogin.net/QOS_main.htm will allow me to "change" the QoS settings. 

 

I put "change" in quotations, because no matter how I try to set QoS on this router, I either get "Invalid uplink bandwidth" or I get to login and try all over again.  Or perhaps something different happens and I get taken to a speed test page, where all I can do is test the bandwidth, and there is no mechanism to get back to the main page with the info collected from the test. 

Screen Shot 2021-09-15 at 3.08.25 PM.png

So I have to start all over again, and get the same "error" and get the same dumb process.  I am searching for a better mesh router, because clearly Netgear is not ready for prime time when it comes to providing a robust product that does the job I expect it to do. 


 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM2000 Modem | Wifi Router RAXE50 and R8500(v.158) Router Mode | Switches NG GS105/8 | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700, GS308v3

Message 4 of 10
CrimpOn
Sage

Re: RBK50 - Downloading large files slowing down entire network - QoS/SQM?


@moonie-man wrote:

I've also been having this issue lately, to the point where I cannot download anything larger than about 250MB, or else my remote connections to the office all die off and I have to wait for the download to finish (or not start it to begin with -- not practical!) before I can log back into my work computer.  I have the RBR750, and I found through different posts on this forum that http://orbilogin.net/QOS_main.htm will allow me to "change" the QoS settings. . 


Thanks for sharing this interesting link.  On my (old) RBR50, it brings up a page (see qos1) with several options that lead to (qos2) and the ability to define a custom rule.  As there is no link to this page in the Orbi web interface, I have serious doubts that (a) it 'works', and (b) if changes were made using this page they would survive a reboot.  I was able to access it using the router IP address rather than orbilogin.net.  I was tempted to define a custom QoS rule, and realized that I do not know what type of rule is desired. (lower the priority of FTP or www?)

 

I have successfully downloaded 2GB Linux images on my old Orbi (multiple times), so it is not clear to me what impact downloading a file would have.

  • Is the same (work) computer being used both for 'work' and to download files, or are they separate computers?
  • Is the computer being used for download connected to the internet with a VPN connection?
I love my Orbi.
Message 5 of 10
CrimpOn
Sage

Re: RBK50 - Downloading large files slowing down entire network - QoS/SQM?

p.s. I forgot to mention that one of the irritating things about the Netgear community forum is that images placed "in-line" using the Photos icon in the menu bar cannot be seen until approved by a forum moderator, whereas images "attached" using the Browse button are available immediately.

I love my Orbi.
Message 6 of 10
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK50 - Downloading large files slowing down entire network - QoS/SQM?

I believe this problem is specifc to Orbi AX. We've seen others with similar problems with downloading large files an the RBR seems to be crashing and stopping operations. 

Theres two specific threads in the Orbi AX forum regarding this...

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM2000 Modem | Wifi Router RAXE50 and R8500(v.158) Router Mode | Switches NG GS105/8 | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700, GS308v3

Message 7 of 10
moonie-man
Aspirant

Re: RBK50 - Downloading large files slowing down entire network - QoS/SQM?

Interesting you should ask that, because I am wired directly to the base router, and my wife is wireless on the satellite unit in another room.  And sometimes when I'm doing an especially large download, her internet dies off as well.  But we're talking upwards of 10s of GB, like an OS update or something similar.  On this main machine, my problems occur on 100s of MB file downloads, and I'm using a work VPN and Chrome Remote Desktop to connect to my office. 

 

I have two machines I work from, and I can run both together, no problem.  One is via VPN to Microsoft Remote Desktop, the other CRD.  I can even do a zoom call while remotely connected to both machines this way, no problem.  It's only seemingly when I need to download a file from a browser that this network issue arises.  At that point, I can't even use tabs within the same browser, everything times out but the one main download from the browser.

 

I will say I know CRD uses a lot of bandwidth, but it comes in bursts throughout the day.  A typical 8-hour work day sees around 2-3GB of traffic over the course of the day, give or take, according to the built-in Apple Activity Monitor network tab.  The VPN uses substantially less than that, but that's a totally different TCP/IP protocol.  But fire up some big download, and the RDP client dies first, then CRD, and if I'm lucky the download finishes before they lose the connection and completely disconnect.  It doesn't happen often, but it happens often enough that I'm looking into alternate mesh router brands which will do what I need, because this Netgear unit clearly isn't cut out for this.

 


@CrimpOn wrote:

 

I have successfully downloaded 2GB Linux images on my old Orbi (multiple times), so it is not clear to me what impact downloading a file would have.

  • Is the same (work) computer being used both for 'work' and to download files, or are they separate computers?
  • Is the computer being used for download connected to the internet with a VPN connection?

 

Message 8 of 10
moonie-man
Aspirant

Re: RBK50 - Downloading large files slowing down entire network - QoS/SQM?

I found one thread which you are supporting on a RBR850 crashing, but that is not remotely what my problem is.  I can't find a second link (assuming the one I mention is the first one).

 

 


@FURRYe38 wrote:

I believe this problem is specifc to Orbi AX. We've seen others with similar problems with downloading large files an the RBR seems to be crashing and stopping operations. 

Theres two specific threads in the Orbi AX forum regarding this...


 

Message 9 of 10
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK50 - Downloading large files slowing down entire network - QoS/SQM?

Please post about that your seeing over in the Orbi AX forum. 

 

Thank you. 


@moonie-man wrote:

I found one thread which you are supporting on a RBR850 crashing, but that is not remotely what my problem is.  I can't find a second link (assuming the one I mention is the first one).

 

 


@FURRYe38 wrote:

I believe this problem is specifc to Orbi AX. We've seen others with similar problems with downloading large files an the RBR seems to be crashing and stopping operations. 

Theres two specific threads in the Orbi AX forum regarding this...


 


 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM2000 Modem | Wifi Router RAXE50 and R8500(v.158) Router Mode | Switches NG GS105/8 | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700, GS308v3

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