RBR50/RBS50 Firmware not automatically updating to 2.5.1.8

[h281dg]

My Router and satellites (2) are currently @ Firmware V2.3.5.30.  Using the web UI, they show a status of "No new firmware version available".

Yet, when I look at the support site; there shows to be V2.5.1.8 as the current version.

Is there a reason the devices do not automatically update?  Or does NetGear control when the automatic updates apply; thus using the community as beta testers (those who manually download)?   

Appears this current version addresses something with Sonos which I would like to have.

Thanks for any assistance.

H281DG

[SW_]

You're not alone with this.  Others are also reporting the same.  You just have to manually download the file and update FW manaully via Orbi Firmware Update page.

Check out a similar thread here. 

[CrimpOn]

My take is that there are several factors in play here.

• Netgear is not ready to have an enormous number of Orbi systems upgraded to the "latest" firmware.
  (for good reason) they fear that there are potential "unintended consequences" and a flood of questions/problems would be too terrible to contemplate.  Thus, they are not "announcing" the new firmware yet.
• Also, Netgear no longer will "force" firmware updates on Orbi customers except for "major" releases.
  Thus, this new firmware is not enough of a change to make a "force" necessary.
• By making the new firmware "available" but not "advertised", there will be some brave Orbi owners who will install it and validate that (a) it is a step forward, or (b) some bad things happen when it is installed.
• Remember, the vast majority of Orbi owners never look at the Orbi management site or visit the Orbi support sites.
  They are blissfully unaware of this new firmware.

So, if you want to be on the "bleeding edge", then download the new firmware and manually install it.  Eventually, Netgear may have the Orbi management system alert customers that it is available.  They will never "force" this firmware on anyone.

For myself, I am looking for consensus.  Is this a step forward, or is it a "mixed bag" that fixes some things and breaks others.  I remain on 2.3.50.30 for the time being.

[michaelkenward]

Odd experience here.

At one stage the browser interface did show updates, RBR/S40-V2.3.5.34, but it refused to install them.

Now it doesn't show them.

I did download and try a manual update but that wouldn't work either.

[h281dg]

Thanks @CrimpOn  and @SW_ 

@CrimpOn ; Assume you mean you will stay with 2.3.5.30 (vs 50.30)?

As these devices are fairly new to me; I would have assumed from 2.3.5.30 > 2.5.n.n would have been many releases along the way.  I understand if they don't wish to broadcast 2.3.n.n updates; but would consider a 2.3 > 2.4 or 2.5 would be fairly significant updates; for security if nothing else.  

Thanks all. 

Rick

[CrimpOn]

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@h281dg wrote:

Thanks @CrimpOn  and @SW_ 

@CrimpOn ; Assume you mean you will stay with 2.3.5.30 (vs 50.30)? Yes. Sorry about the typo.

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[FURRYe38]

v2.5.1.8 is a minor FW revision not a MAJOR rev. Only Major revs get auto updated thru the system. Minor updates will present them selves in the routers UI for users to choose to update or not. Or manually download from NG download site and manually install them yourself. 

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@h281dg wrote:

My Router and satellites (2) are currently @ Firmware V2.3.5.30.  Using the web UI, they show a status of "No new firmware version available".

Yet, when I look at the support site; there shows to be V2.5.1.8 as the current version.

Is there a reason the devices do not automatically update?  Or does NetGear control when the automatic updates apply; thus using the community as beta testers (those who manually download)?   

Appears this current version addresses something with Sonos which I would like to have.

Thanks for any assistance.

H281DG

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[Trebz_]

I have been having consistent intermittent internet drop outs on my RBR50/RBS50 setup with v2.3.5.30 that I did not have on previous firmware.   Would I be better off manually updating to 2.5.1.8?

[FURRYe38]

Yes, use a web browser like IE11, FF or opera and a wired PC and downloaded the RBS and RBR FW update files from NGs download support site.

https://www.netgear.com/support/product/RBK50.aspx#download

Manually FW update the RBS first, then the RBR lastly. After all has been updated power OFF the RBS and RBR for 30 seconds then back on with everything. You shouldn't need a reset and setup from scratch however if you noticed bad behavior with the system it maybe needed.

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@Trebz_ wrote:

I have been having consistent intermittent internet drop outs on my RBR50/RBS50 setup with v2.3.5.30 that I did not have on previous firmware.   Would I be better off manually updating to 2.5.1.8?

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[Trebz_]

Thanks. I will give that a try this weekend.  Fingers crossed, as I don't really want to buy anything new!

[FURRYe38]

A reset and setup from scratch maybe needed if you see problems after the update. 

Good Luck. 

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@Trebz_ wrote:

Thanks. I will give that a try this weekend.  Fingers crossed, as I don't really want to buy anything new!

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[Trebz_]

Ok, so I manually updated all 3 devices.   Things don't seem better.  I finally was able to get my AppleTV to connect to the right Orbi, but streaming quality seems to be having problems buffering.  Any thoughts on other settings I can tweak.  Currently beamforming and MIMO, and fast roaming are all enabled.

[FURRYe38]

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between RBR and RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected. https://kb.netgear.com/000036466/How-far-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite-from-my-Orbi-router

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

Try disabling the following and see:
Armor, Circle, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).

Has a factory reset and setup from scratch been performed since last FW update? 

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@Trebz_ wrote:

Ok, so I manually updated all 3 devices.   Things don't seem better.  I finally was able to get my AppleTV to connect to the right Orbi, but streaming quality seems to be having problems buffering.  Any thoughts on other settings I can tweak.  Currently beamforming and MIMO, and fast roaming are all enabled.

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[TheGardners]

Hello all,

I have attempted to update the firmware automatically on the RBR50 and it does not apply the update. I have also attempted to manually update the firmware on my RBR50 to 2.5.1.8 via the downloaded zip file and the resulting .img file upload. It seems to attempt the installation, but will not apply the update. My current version is 2.5.0.38 and no amount of effort on our part has resulted in success.

We have one RBS50 which is already updated and one RBS20 which is now (manually) updated to 2.3.5.36 (latest).

In my opinion, whether it is a major firmware update or not, the router should handle this activity as part of intended functionality and not cause so much grief in the community.

[CrimpOn]

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@TheGardners wrote:

I have attempted to update the firmware automatically on the RBR50 and it does not apply the update.By this you mean that the Firmware Update says that no new firmware is available?  Or, do you mean that the web page listed new firmware, but clicking on the link did not result in upgrade?

I have also attempted to manually update the firmware on my RBR50 to 2.5.1.8 via the downloaded zip file and the resulting .img file upload. It seems to attempt the installation, but will not apply the update. This is the procedure followed by everyone who has upgraded to 2.5.1.8 thus far (me included).  At what point does it "go bad"?  Is there a message?

In my opinion, whether it is a major firmware update or not, the router should handle this activity as part of intended functionality and not cause so much grief in the community. Absolutely agree.  The topic of firmware upgrades has dominated the community forum for at least six months.  I have lost track of the number of participants who declare, "Nothing from Netgear - Ever Again!!!"

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[TheGardners]

Thanks for the response, @CrimpOn. I've responded to each point below in blue.

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@CrimpOn wrote:

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@TheGardners wrote:

I have attempted to update the firmware automatically on the RBR50 and it does not apply the update.By this you mean that the Firmware Update says that no new firmware is available?  Or, do you mean that the web page listed new firmware, but clicking on the link did not result in upgrade? The page does list the update, but multiple attempts to apply it simply resulted in "pseudo-availability" where the router goes through multiple many-minutes long cycles of down/up with no change to the version when it settles back to a seemingly normal state.

I have also attempted to manually update the firmware on my RBR50 to 2.5.1.8 via the downloaded zip file and the resulting .img file upload. It seems to attempt the installation, but will not apply the update. This is the procedure followed by everyone who has upgraded to 2.5.1.8 thus far (me included).  At what point does it "go bad"?  Is there a message? In a manner similar to the above for the auto update, it seems to be applying the manually uploaded IMG file, but when the router stabilizes after the down/up cycles, it is still running v2.5.0.38. There are never any messages implying any warnings or errors.

In my opinion, whether it is a major firmware update or not, the router should handle this activity as part of intended functionality and not cause so much grief in the community. Absolutely agree.  The topic of firmware upgrades has dominated the community forum for at least six months.  I have lost track of the number of participants who declare, "Nothing from Netgear - Ever Again!!!" I don't think I feel quite so strongly... 🙂 I tried Linksys Velop and Google Home mesh networks before deciding to toss some cash to the Netgear Orbi platform. We are also an Arlo home and are mostly (ha!) happy with that product, too. Despite this frustration on the RBR50, the performance of the Orbi pseudo-mesh has been vastly superior to both Linksys and Google. And the configurability is better, too. So... I'm not in the camp of "NEVER AGAIN NETGEAR". I believe that the Netgear products are decent. Nowhere near ideal, but better than most.

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[CrimpOn]

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@TheGardners wrote:

Thanks for the response, @CrimpOn. I've responded to each point below in blue.  I will do red again!

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@CrimpOn wrote:

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@TheGardners wrote:

I have attempted to update the firmware automatically on the RBR50 and it does not apply the update.By this you mean that the Firmware Update says that no new firmware is available?  Or, do you mean that the web page listed new firmware, but clicking on the link did not result in upgrade? The page does list the update, but multiple attempts to apply it simply resulted in "pseudo-availability" where the router goes through multiple many-minutes long cycles of down/up with no change to the version when it settles back to a seemingly normal state. This is a new development.  I had not realized that Netgear was "announcing" 2.5.1.8 on the Firmware Update page.  (Of course, I can't verify that because I updated already. I could "go back" to 2.3.5.30, but even I am not that dedicated.)

I have also attempted to manually update the firmware on my RBR50 to 2.5.1.8 via the downloaded zip file and the resulting .img file upload. It seems to attempt the installation, but will not apply the update. This is the procedure followed by everyone who has upgraded to 2.5.1.8 thus far (me included).  At what point does it "go bad"?  Is there a message? In a manner similar to the above for the auto update, it seems to be applying the manually uploaded IMG file, but when the router stabilizes after the down/up cycles, it is still running v2.5.0.38. There are never any messages implying any warnings or errors.  So, going step-by-step, "Browse" to find the .img file was successful, the update started, the "Progress Bar" went across the screen, then it asked you to log in again, but the version remained the same?  (all of those steps?  did I leave any out?)

In my opinion, whether it is a major firmware update or not, the router should handle this activity as part of intended functionality and not cause so much grief in the community. Absolutely agree.  The topic of firmware upgrades has dominated the community forum for at least six months.  I have lost track of the number of participants who declare, "Nothing from Netgear - Ever Again!!!" I don't think I feel quite so strongly... 🙂 I tried Linksys Velop and Google Home mesh networks before deciding to toss some cash to the Netgear Orbi platform. We are also an Arlo home and are mostly (ha!) happy with that product, too. Despite this frustration on the RBR50, the performance of the Orbi pseudo-mesh has been vastly superior to both Linksys and Google. And the configurability is better, too. So... I'm not in the camp of "NEVER AGAIN NETGEAR". I believe that the Netgear products are decent. Nowhere near ideal, but better than most.

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I can think of a few alternatives:

1. Perform the dreaded "Factory Reset". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMw4ePACgc4 
   People hate doing this because it means they have to enter all of their "assigned" IP addresses and devices names/types again.  It could be that a "clean slate" would make the RBR50 more capable of doing the upgrade.
2. Force a firmware "flash" using TFTP: https://kb.netgear.com/000059633/How-to-upload-firmware-to-a-NETGEAR-router-using-TFTP-client This is not for the faint of heart.  And, it will result in the same thing as a Factory Reset: everything has to be configured again.
3. Wait it out.  The 2.5.0.38 firmware annoyed people because it totally trashed the "device naming" tables.  If you are not having a problem with the Orbi and are thinking, "Maybe I ought to update the firmware?".... Maybe just leave it alone?

Geez.  You come here for help and get some lunatic.

[TheGardners]

FINAL (we hope!) Reply edits in BLUE again.

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@CrimpOn wrote:

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@TheGardners wrote:

Thanks for the response, @CrimpOn. I've responded to each point below in blue.  I will do red again!

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@CrimpOn wrote:

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@TheGardners wrote:

I have attempted to update the firmware automatically on the RBR50 and it does not apply the update.By this you mean that the Firmware Update says that no new firmware is available?  Or, do you mean that the web page listed new firmware, but clicking on the link did not result in upgrade? The page does list the update, but multiple attempts to apply it simply resulted in "pseudo-availability" where the router goes through multiple many-minutes long cycles of down/up with no change to the version when it settles back to a seemingly normal state. This is a new development.  I had not realized that Netgear was "announcing" 2.5.1.8 on the Firmware Update page.  (Of course, I can't verify that because I updated already. I could "go back" to 2.3.5.30, but even I am not that dedicated.) I rebooted the router last night because the web admin UI was acting very flaky. This time, it showed the actual link to the info on 2.5.1.8, so I chose to "Update All" (the satellites showed that they were already at the latest version). It appears to have worked this time! The admin page for the router showed "Updating Settings ||||||||| [etc.]" and then rebooted again. After the reboot, the router logged in at "orbilogin.com" (new) and showed the latest firmware version to be correct.

I have also attempted to manually update the firmware on my RBR50 to 2.5.1.8 via the downloaded zip file and the resulting .img file upload. It seems to attempt the installation, but will not apply the update. This is the procedure followed by everyone who has upgraded to 2.5.1.8 thus far (me included).  At what point does it "go bad"?  Is there a message? In a manner similar to the above for the auto update, it seems to be applying the manually uploaded IMG file, but when the router stabilizes after the down/up cycles, it is still running v2.5.0.38. There are never any messages implying any warnings or errors.  So, going step-by-step, "Browse" to find the .img file was successful, the update started, the "Progress Bar" went across the screen, then it asked you to log in again, but the version remained the same?  (all of those steps?  did I leave any out?)

In my opinion, whether it is a major firmware update or not, the router should handle this activity as part of intended functionality and not cause so much grief in the community. Absolutely agree.  The topic of firmware upgrades has dominated the community forum for at least six months.  I have lost track of the number of participants who declare, "Nothing from Netgear - Ever Again!!!" I don't think I feel quite so strongly... 🙂 I tried Linksys Velop and Google Home mesh networks before deciding to toss some cash to the Netgear Orbi platform. We are also an Arlo home and are mostly (ha!) happy with that product, too. Despite this frustration on the RBR50, the performance of the Orbi pseudo-mesh has been vastly superior to both Linksys and Google. And the configurability is better, too. So... I'm not in the camp of "NEVER AGAIN NETGEAR". I believe that the Netgear products are decent. Nowhere near ideal, but better than most.

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I can think of a few alternatives:

1. Perform the dreaded "Factory Reset". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMw4ePACgc4 
   People hate doing this because it means they have to enter all of their "assigned" IP addresses and devices names/types again.  It could be that a "clean slate" would make the RBR50 more capable of doing the upgrade.
2. Force a firmware "flash" using TFTP: https://kb.netgear.com/000059633/How-to-upload-firmware-to-a-NETGEAR-router-using-TFTP-client This is not for the faint of heart.  And, it will result in the same thing as a Factory Reset: everything has to be configured again.
3. Wait it out.  The 2.5.0.38 firmware annoyed people because it totally trashed the "device naming" tables.  If you are not having a problem with the Orbi and are thinking, "Maybe I ought to update the firmware?".... Maybe just leave it alone?

Geez.  You come here for help and get some lunatic.

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I'm okay with very helpful lunatics! 🙂

Thankfully, in this case, no factory reset was needed. WHEW!

[FURRYe38]

Next time try a different browser, IE11, Firefox or Opera. 

Besure to clear out ALL browser caches before entering into the RBS or RBRs web page. 

Always update the RBS FW first. Then RBR lastly. 

Somethings a factory reset before updating FW should be used if initial FW update is not working. 

Enjoy. 

[BareMetal]

I have the exact same issue. Very annoying. Please fix NetGear.

[FURRYe38]

No all version of FW auto update orbi systems. If you choose to update to more resent FW, you can manually download FW files your self and apply them for version of FW that are not automatically pushed to your system. Nothing needs fixed about this. 

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@BareMetal wrote:
I have the exact same issue. Very annoying. Please fix NetGear.

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