HDTV recording options

[yoh-dah]

The RAID 5-protected large-capacity ReadyNAS makes a perfect storage solution for HDTV recording. Available consumer-level HDTV DVRs currently don't have a standard network storage interface, so if you want HDTV recording that can expand beyond the internal hard disk capacity, you'll need to build a HDTV PVR on your own.

There are a couple of affordable HDTV recording solutions for your PC out there if you are up to the challenge. The PCI cards range in price from $200 to $350 and include the PVR software needed to do the timeshift recordings. If you plan to utilize a ReadyNAS solution, you need to make sure the software allows you to record onto a network drive.

The Cards

The first one is the MyHD MDP-120 HDTV PCI Decoder Card from Macro Image Technology. This card comes with an AV connector that allows you to use VGA, S-Video, or composite outputs. You can purchase an optional converter cable to connect to your HDTV component input or purchase an optional daughter-card that allows DVI-D output. You can find reviews and experiences with this card at the following links, courtesy of the respective websites:

Product Review (June 2003) http://www.laaudiofile.com/mdp100.html
myHD HDTV Tuner Card http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/htpc/myhd/myhd_intro.html
Building a High Definition Home Theater PC http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1265783,00.asp

The MyHD solution will cost you $240. The daughter-card will cost you an additional $70. One advantage to the MyHD card is that a minimum PC requirement is only a PII 400MHz with 64MB of RAM. You must have something like that collecting dust in your closet somewhere...

The second solution is the ATI HD Wonder (http://www.ati.com/products/hdtvwonder/). To be honest with you, we tried this card out a month ago and was unsuccessful at saving to a network drive. Apparently ATI has come out with a new software update that will allow this. We haven't had the chance to verify this so your mileage will vary...

ATI HD Wonder Review from designtechnica.com http://reviews.designtechnica.com/review1831_main9163.html
ATI HD Wonder Review from hothardware.com http://www.hothardware.com/viewarticle.cfm?articleid=541

The HD Wonder card will run you about $200.

Do-it-yourself HDTV PVR do have its limitations, the main one being that you're limited to off-the-air recordings. If you will be recording mainly from your local stations and network affiliates, that won't be an issue. But don't expect to be able to record HBO, Showtime, and ESPN. The 2nd limitation is the timeshift recording. If you're used to Tivo, the software included with the cards don't quite live up to the same usability. Again, if you can live by with that limitation, you'll be able to record HDTV for free with no monthly Tivo and Comcast (and whoever else) fees!

Looks like this is definitely just a beginning. We'll post our experiences here from time to time as we see more promising solutions.

[dj7675]

Just a further note about HDTV recording. If you would like to recorder HD via Directv, Dish, CBand, Starchoice, or BEV you can do this. Nextcom will modify your receiver by adding a USB port to your receiver. With their software running on a windows pc you can record to a network drive such as Infrant X6 which is what I do. For more information visit http://www.r5000.com . Great product and support.

Darin

[bhoar]

That link brings me to a page that just says "R5000.com coming soon". Is that link correct?

-brendan

[Xipper]

bhoar wrote:
That link brings me to a page that just says "R5000.com coming soon". Is that link correct? -brendan

A quick Google provided me this link which looks a bit more valid:
http://www.nextcomwireless.com/r5000/home.htm

[dj7675]

Oops....the link should have been http://r5000hd.com or the other link mentioned. Great product and really the only way I know of recording hdtv ts files from satellite.

Darin

[verden]

I have a comcast 6412 STB and Mac OS 10.4.3 - There is a free app called iRecord that will recognize the STB and allow you to schedule and record HDTV using the tuner. I recommend VLC for playback.

[yoh-dah]

verden wrote:
I have a comcast 6412 STB and Mac OS 10.4.3 - There is a free app called iRecord that will recognize the STB and allow you to schedule and record HDTV using the tuner. I recommend VLC for playback.

Hmmm, that's interesting. So you connect your Mac to the firewire port and run iRecord. Do you have to manually start and stop recordings from the Mac or can the Mac control changing the STB channels and do time-shift recording on its own?

[SIHappiness]

I've been messing around with HDTV PVR systems, so I thought I'd post some of my experiences for any who want to read. This board looks like it doesn't see too much traffic, though, so who knows.

With HD, of course, you have a few methods of delivery: OTA (over the air), Cable, and Satellite. Cable* and Sat require an adapter box (* more on this later), and over the air will require a good antenna.

In addition to the referenced HD wonder and MyHD cards, there are some others on the market now: Vbox makes some nice stuff which is available in PCI, PCI-express, and USB interfaces, a company called DViCO makes some similar products, MyHD has a newer model card, and ATI has updated their offerings.

The state of the included software is still pretty abysmal, especially if you're interested in viewing/interfacing with that software on a TV via remote control. Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 supports OTA recording of HDTV via any of those cards, and several linux and mac solutions support similar configs. As long as you can get a decent antenna set up, OTA is an easy way to do HD PVR work. The guide info is authomatically downloaded, and the interface is as TIVO-like as it gets. The highest bitrate OTA HD is 19.2mbps, so storing to your ReadyNAS shouldn't be an issue in any network other than a wireless one. Similar configurations are possible on Macs (using elgato's USB equipment) and linux (with MythTV or FreeVO).

Satellite should probably be written off altogether for HD PVR work. There is a company called 169time that modifies and sells modified HD DirecTV receivers that interface over a USB connection. They include software that allows those devices to be programmed from a PC, and I think they even support MCE 2005 for that purpose. I've never seen one in action, so I can't speak to it. The prices on the modified boxes seem a bit steep, but HD DirecTV boxes are kind of expensive, so I guess that's where a good part of the price comes from.

If you're using digital cable, you can request a box with IEEE 1394 (Firewire), and the cable company is legally obligated to provide you with one. You can use a mac as verden is describing, or you can use a program called FireSTB to allow an XP MCE computer to schedule and record shows from certain cable boxes over the firewire connection. Again, the most I've seen as far as bitrate from those sources was concerned seemed to be about 30mbps, so you should be fine as far as network speed.

Early last year a system was put in place that allowed for a digital version of the old "cable-ready" TVs. Called QAM (although other transmission systems also use QAM coding), this allows newer digital/HDTVs to receive digital and HD signals over normal cable. Depending on the carrier, all the signals may be unencrypted or just the broadcast stations (your local NBC/CBS/ABC/etc) affiliates will be unencrypted. HDTVs with QAM often have firewire ports that can output to devices called AVHDs or AVDiscs. These are basically just hard drives with interface chips that allow the TVs to talk to them. Newer mitsu/Toshiba/Samsung etc. TVs have simple options for scheduling recordings from channel X at time Y to Z, which could then be played back from the AVHD device. There is a product called firebus that allows your firewire-equipped windows PC to operate as an AVHD, and data could be written over the network to the readyNAS.

Additionally, DViCO's Fusion 5 PCI/USB/PCIe products support QAM tuning, so they can record and schedule recordings. Unfortunately, you're limited to their interface software because no media center PC product (XP MCE, SageTV, BeyondTV, etc) supports tuning to those QAM frequencies. I've read that mediaportal does support this system, but the few posts I see about it indicates that CPU usage pegs out at 100% and the video stutters. I can't confirm this, though, so your mileage may vary. Allegedly, QAM will be added in Vista, but we'll have to wait and see. I use a system called Record This which was produced by one of the regulars on the AVS forum. It's a command line utility that parses Zap2it's XML channels data downloaded by a program called XMLTV. I set it to automatically run once a day at 2AM; if a show is found in that day's guide data, RecordThis just updates the file that DViCO's software refers to for scheduled recordings and records that file. The resulting file can easily be played back through any of the major media players.

Finally, there are cable card solutions on the near horizon that were announced by ATI. Cable card is, in essence, a standardized way of authorizing digital channels for TVs without the use of a cable box. The card itself looks like a PCMCIA/PC Card, and plugs into TVs that support the cablecard system. The card tells the TV what channels you have and haven't paid for, and you can then tune into those channels. Vista will support cable card, but only thorugh "authorized OEM products." It's unclear if this means you'll just need the ATI cable card adapter (let's hope) or if you'll need to buy a pre-built system with all the DRM restirctions to keep you from uploading shows (more likely). Since MCE works fine with ReadyNAS products, you shouldn't have any trouble using a folder on the ReadyNAS to hold your recordings.

[yoh-dah]

SIHappiness, thanks for the nicely written summary of your experiences 😎

[hxall]

Not a lot of activity on this topic, but has anyone tried recording directly from a HDHomeRun (http://www.silicondust.com/) networked media tuner (not PC based, but standalone) to their ReadyNAS without a PC. If so, what apps are you running on your NAS?

I have recorded over the air 1080i broadcasts to my NV+ using GBPVR and Windows Media Center through my PC, but would rather not have the PC running.

[btaroli]

I'm beginning to research this as well. I'm seeing some fairly good options in the media /player/ space... xmbc, popcorn hour, DViCO,... but not much in the recording space that doesn't require the building of some kind of custom PC.

I am also very interested in using the HDHomerun dual tuner setup because it isn't hardware specific, allows network streaming. I guess my ideal would be something that is either a STB or installable on the NAS itself that would allow PVR/DVR function with the networked ATSC tuners. 🙂

yeah, maybe it's a pipe dream, but I'm searching...

[hxall]

well, let me know if you find something, would be great to have the functionality, have been very satisfied with my HDHomeRun and Popcorn Hour... a version of GBPVR that would run on the NAS would be a nice option

[btaroli]

hxall wrote:
have been very satisfied with my HDHomeRun and Popcorn Hour

How do you utilize the two together... simply to watch live broadcasts? Or does it record as well?

[hxall]

How do you utilize the two together... simply to watch live broadcasts? Or does it record as well?[/quote]

Recording on PC via GBPVR and playback on Popcorn, there's an application (very beta) that runs on the Popcorn, but it's not very sophisticated and only allows live broadcast, not very user friendly (not wife friendly... 😉

[Meob1]

surprised more peeps are not mentioning W7MC,

for HD recording & EPG is pretty much un-beatable, I can live with the DRM....

HTPC:

Gigabyte GA-73PVM-S2H,
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz
4GB RAM
NVIDIA 9800 1GB beast
Antec Fusion Remote Max HTPC Enclosure
Hauppauge HD PVR
Sky HD+
Dusky Control - USB Controller (This controller allows you to control one Sky or Sky+ box from a PC via USB)
IP Power 9258S Web Power switch + Power Reboot by Ping
Sony STR-DA2400ES
Hot Link XL and Emitter Expansion Kit



Ok the trick here was to get the sky HD piped to W7MC with a FULL epg in 1080p with 5.1 sound - and it works!

not for the faint hearted, its a amazing setup, now I can archive all my sky HD stuff in full 1080p & 5.1 to my NAS, unlimited storage !

you'll need this:

http://dvblogic.com/hdpvr.php

a serious labour of love but well worth it.

I use XMBC and my EVA9000 to steam HD content all over the house and the xbox 360 can extend the TV from for HTPC to another room.

[speedfr0g]

I am using a mac running EyeTV to record TV programmes. Files are written directly to my ReadyNAS.
I have just come across this ASUS My Cinema-U3100Mini/DVBT USB Stick (http://asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=7KqG3FwyUeVB41W2) and note that it is linux.
I therefore wonder whether we could run the software natively on the ReadyNAS with the TV tuner stick in one of the USD slots and therefore not have to have the Mac (or a PC) on all the time to record?

Thanks

[IanSav]

Hi,

I would like to add my support for a ReadyNAS add-on that would support the HDHomeRun range of devices. I believe that this should be an attractive option for Netgear to support as this device is available world wide. The Device provides a transparent interface to ATSC and DVB transmissions via terrestrial and cable networks. The new Prime model will even support encrypted channels in the USA. The HDHomeRun attaches via a standard wired network interface.

There is no physical connection requirement to the ReadyNAS so the two only see each other via a network connection. This means that the two devices can be located wherever makes sense for each particular device. The ReadyNAS can go where it needs to go and the tuner can go wherever its antenna feed is located. They only need a simple network connection.

All I would like to see is some software in the ReadyNAS that allows the user to schedule recordings to be captured to a share within the ReadyNAS. I don't need, or want, any playback or transcoding within the HDHomeRun part of the software. This can safely be left to the existing ReadyNAS media streaming capabilities. The HDHomeRun provides a Transport Stream (TS file) that can simply be saved on the ReadyNAS disk.

It would be appropriate if the software features a web based interface that allows the user to configure the list of available channels and displays a view of the EPG which allows the user to schedule recordings. In Australia our EPG is transmitted as part of the broadcast signal. I understand that other location may require access to their local XML EPG data feed (again, this is usually a network based service).

What do people think? Are there any takers for such an add-on?

Regards,
Ian.

[kllngtme]

Any updates on to possibly getting the HDhomerun or anything like it to work with the Readynas? If we could get the backend on the NAS like that and then use Mythtv or something like that? I'm new to this whole thing but I'm basically looking to make the nas into dvr sort of thing.. I don't have much experience with linux so I was hoping there would be a service already built for the Readynas for this but I can't seem to find much on it..

[kllngtme]

Is there anyone that can give me any bit of information on this?

[btaroli]

I ran down a few potential options, but never really found something satisfactory. If Windows Media Center wasn't such a pig about the format it saves media in, it might have been the most feasible OTA to NAS option. But instead I fell back upon a nicely automated bitorrent setup. Sure, I don't get broadcast stuff, but I haven't found that to be too limiting for my needs.

[kllngtme]

btaroli wrote:
I ran down a few potential options, but never really found something satisfactory. If Windows Media Center wasn't such a pig about the format it saves media in, it might have been the most feasible OTA to NAS option. But instead I fell back upon a nicely automated bitorrent setup. Sure, I don't get broadcast stuff, but I haven't found that to be too limiting for my needs.

That's what I was thinking as well. I'm thinking about getting Sick Beard installed and using that to get tv shows to download automatically and such. Any other options out there for this? It seems like Sick Beard is the only option for this right now. I'd love to hear about how others are doing this. I want to get rid of my cable bill so badly, I have a googletv to help, but I still find myself using my cable box to see whats on tv and such..