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ReadyNAS 316 upgrade to 6.10.5

NathanWoodruff
Aspirant

ReadyNAS 316 upgrade to 6.10.5

I just added an additional 18TB drive to my 316. It took 5 days and some when I decided to remove the 12TB to replace that drive with another 18TB drive. There were 6 drives and now there are only 5 drives. 

 

I waited till the 12TB drive was able to be removed from the JBOD raid to update to 6.10.5. I had removed the 12 TB drive this morning and the RAID showed 10TB free and some. I had used it all day with the new 18TB drive in the 316. This evening I updated to 6.10.5 from 6.10.4 hot fix. When it rebooted, the 18TB drive shows as blank and the other 4 drives that have been in the ReadyNas for more than a year now show up as RED when you click on VOLUMES on the ADMIN page.

 

DISK1 still shows that there is 58TB of data on that drive but the new 18TB drive is no longer apart of DISK1 raid. I get the message "Remove Inactive Volumes to use the disk #2,#3,#5,#6" the drives that are in RED"

 

Please don't tell me that this update killed the RAID

Model: RN31600|ReadyNAS 300 Series 6- Bay (Diskless)
Message 1 of 30
StephenB
Guru

Re: ReadyNAS 316 upgrade to 6.10.5

I'm a bit confused on what RAID mode you were in before. 

 

Did you set up JBOD RAID groups on each disk, and concatenate them together?  Or did you do something else?

What took 5 days, since with JBOD there shouldn't have been any resyncs needed???

 


@NathanWoodruff wrote:

 

DISK1 still shows that there is 58TB of data on that drive but the new 18TB drive is no longer apart of DISK1 raid. I get the message "Remove Inactive Volumes to use the disk #2,#3,#5,#6" the drives that are in RED"

 

Please don't tell me that this update killed the RAID


The screen shot is saying 58 TB in the volume (not the drive), which is a bit weird with an 18 TB disk in JBOD.  Normally the inactive volume message happens when the RAID array is out of sync or if there is some corruption in the BTRFS file system.  It's not the update itself that did damage - something was likely already wrong, and any reboot of the NAS would likely have given you the same symptoms.

Message 2 of 30
NathanWoodruff
Aspirant

Re: ReadyNAS 316 upgrade to 6.10.5

It was not an X-Raid but a Flex-Raid because way back when, when I was using a 202, 1 TB drives were expensive and I wanted to get the most storage space as possible. This JBOD drive is the same drive that was on the original 1TB x 2 drives. I moved those drives to a 424 and added more drives and removed the 1TB drives one at a time. Over the years it moved to a 316 which is the current NAS with swapping in and out ever larger and larger drives. 

 

It has worked well until last night.

 

How do I fix this to get the data back?

Message 3 of 30
StephenB
Guru

Re: ReadyNAS 316 upgrade to 6.10.5


@NathanWoodruff wrote:

It was not an X-Raid but a Flex-Raid because way back when, when I was using a 202, 1 TB drives were expensive and I wanted to get the most storage space as possible.


I get that, but we still don't know what RAID modes you set up with flexraid.  Did you have a single volume before this happened?  Or multiple volumes?

 


@NathanWoodruff wrote:

How do I fix this to get the data back?


You basically have three options.

  1. do a factory default, reconfigure the NAS, and restore all the data from backup.  That of course will be very painful, given the size of your disks.
  2. contact Netgear paid support (via my.netgear.com), and get a service contract to fix this.  They should be able to do it remotely.
  3. Attempt to fix it yourself via the linux command line.

There are multiple causes, and it is easy to do more damage if you don't know what you are doing.  So I generally won't provide targeted advice on option 3 for this particular problem, as I don't want to create more risk for your data. 

 

However, sometimes @rn_enthusiast will or others will analyze your situation and give you advice on what commands you need to fix it.

 

 

Message 4 of 30
NathanWoodruff
Aspirant

Re: ReadyNAS 316 upgrade to 6.10.5

"I get that, but we still don't know what RAID modes you set up with flexraid."

 

It is setup using RAID-5.

 

Message 5 of 30
StephenB
Guru

Re: ReadyNAS 316 upgrade to 6.10.5


@NathanWoodruff wrote:

"I get that, but we still don't know what RAID modes you set up with flexraid."

 

It is setup using RAID-5.

 


FlexRAID won't give you more space than XRAID when you use RAID-5, generally it will give you less.  In your particular case, it will be only using 12 TB of each drive - wasting space on the 16 and 18 TB ones. 

 

Also, you said you initially had 6 drives, but now only have 5.  Did you somehow downsize the array via ssh, or just pull a drive?

 

It isn't clear at all why the volume is showing a JBOD group when you have a RAID-5 array.  

 

Do you have a backup of the files? If you don't, then I wouldn't attempt option (3) - I'd contract Netgear support to fix the issue.

 

 

 

 

Message 6 of 30
NathanWoodruff
Aspirant

Re: ReadyNAS 316 upgrade to 6.10.5

I think I have figured out the problem. The 18TB drive in the picture that is black and not red, is the brand new drive I just purchased. I was replacing the 12TB drive that was in slot 1 at the top. I did the process of removing the 12TB drive from the volume and that is what took 5 days to complete as it was moving all data from that drive probably to the 18TB new drive. 

 

I have removed that 18TB drive and connected it up to a Windows 10 computer and it is showing no partitions on that 18TB drive at all. Trying to add a partition to the drive in Windows 10 fails. I'm beginning to believe the 18TB drive has completely failed as I ordered the identical 18TB drive at the beginning of 2020 and it was as dead as a door nail. It took two months to get a replacement. I'm beginning to believe that this 18TB drive is the same position except that this drive is recognized. I do feel the drive spin up though. 

 

Can I reinstall the 12 TB drive that I just took out when I replaced it with the 18TB drive and rebuild the volume?

Message 7 of 30
StephenB
Guru

Re: ReadyNAS 316 upgrade to 6.10.5


@NathanWoodruff wrote:

 

Can I reinstall the 12 TB drive that I just took out when I replaced it with the 18TB drive and rebuild the volume?


Likely that will be out of sync, since you've run the NAS for some days w/o it. Try booting the NAS with bay 1 empty, and see if that works.

Message 8 of 30
NathanWoodruff
Aspirant

Re: ReadyNAS 316 upgrade to 6.10.5

I've booted the 316 without the new 18TB drive and the 4 other drives are all pictured in red, without any access to the volume. 

 

Should I try reinstalling the 12TB drive where the 18TB drive is in hopes that it will rebuild?

 

I don't have backups for all files. My entire lifes work is on this drive. There is also video that I had scanned from 8mm film of me and entire family when my dad passed away in 1994 that I don't have any backup for. I have also all my CD's that I own ripped to the drive. I still have the CD's in the basement, but at about 1,500 CD's, it originally took me several years to rip them to the volume. And now that there isn't any publicly available database, I would have to manually type in all the information about the CD by hand. I used WinAmp and before, you insert the CD and click on RIP and all is well. I tried that a few years ago and all I got now is Track 1, track 2 and so on. I also have my entire collection of DVD's ripped to it as well, but that is only about 300 if that. 

 

I'm a professional web developer and my entire lifes work of development is also on there including design documents, pictures and video.  And that I don't have a backup for. 

 

Is there any hope of saving this volume as 4 other drives appear to be functioning. 

Message 9 of 30
StephenB
Guru

Re: ReadyNAS 316 upgrade to 6.10.5


@NathanWoodruff wrote:

 

I don't have backups for all files. My entire lifes work is on this drive. There is also video that I had scanned from 8mm film of me and entire family when my dad passed away in 1994 that I don't have any backup for. I have also all my CD's that I own ripped to the drive. I still have the CD's in the basement, but at about 1,500 CD's, it originally took me several years to rip them to the volume. And now that there isn't any publicly available database, I would have to manually type in all the information about the CD by hand. I used WinAmp and before, you insert the CD and click on RIP and all is well. I tried that a few years ago and all I got now is Track 1, track 2 and so on. I also have my entire collection of DVD's ripped to it as well, but that is only about 300 if that. 

 


I'm sorry to hear that you have no backup - though also a bit surprised, since you are a computer professional.

 

Given what's at stake, you should pay Netgear to fix this for you.  Then put a backup plan in place for the NAS after you get the data restored.

Message 10 of 30
NathanWoodruff
Aspirant

Re: ReadyNAS 316 upgrade to 6.10.5

This is what it looks like with the new 18TB drive removed.

Message 11 of 30
StephenB
Guru

Re: ReadyNAS 316 upgrade to 6.10.5


@NathanWoodruff wrote:

This is what it looks like with the new 18TB drive removed.


Which looks the same as before, just with slot 1 empty.  When was slot 4 emptied?

 

The more things you try, the greater the risk of doing more damage.  Personally if I were in your situation, I'd stop now.

 

If you do decide to try booting with the old disk in slot 1, then make sure you use the boot menu option to boot read-only.

Message 12 of 30
NathanWoodruff
Aspirant

Re: ReadyNAS 316 upgrade to 6.10.5

The new 18TB drive was installed in slot 4. The 12 TB drive was installed in slot 1. Before I purchased the 18TB drive I was down to about 4 TB free. I installed the 18 TB drive and showed 20 some odd free. I then went through the procedure to remvove the 12 TB drive from the volume and had about 10 TB free out of 79 TB of space. Next time I would have got to less than 5 TB free, I would have purchased another 18 TB drive or larger seeing it would take another year or 2 to use up 5 or more TB of space and do the same process except removing a 16 TB drive. I've always left one slot available to be able to increase the size of the volume. 

 

I pulled out the 12 TB drive from the NAS on Saturday Aug 14th around 11pm just before calling it a night. The 18 TB drive worked in the volume most of Sunday until I did the update to 6.10.5 and had to reboot. Then all went down hill fast. 

Message 13 of 30
NathanWoodruff
Aspirant

Re: ReadyNAS 316 upgrade to 6.10.5

I've booted the 316 back up and are using it to plug in USB drives that I have backed up data from and are copying it from the 316 to the 424 with older 10 TB drives in to recover some of my work that I need to have now. The new 18 TB drive is currently not installed but from the Admin page of the 316 the USB drives are showing and I can connect to the USB drives via windows 10 file explorer and using windows 10 to copy the backup data over to the 424. 

Message 14 of 30
StephenB
Guru

Re: ReadyNAS 316 upgrade to 6.10.5


@NathanWoodruff wrote:

The new 18TB drive was installed in slot 4. The 12 TB drive was installed in slot 1. Before I purchased the 18TB drive I was down to about 4 TB free. I installed the 18 TB drive and showed 20 some odd free. I then went through the procedure to remvove the 12 TB drive from the volume and had about 10 TB free out of 79 TB of space.

You

  1. installed the 18 TB with the 12 TB installed
  2. then removed the 12 TB drive?

That is definitely the wrong process, and should have left you with a degraded RAID-5 volume.

 

Can you explain exactly what the "procedure to remove the 12 TB drive" was?

 

 

Message 15 of 30
NathanWoodruff
Aspirant

Re: ReadyNAS 316 upgrade to 6.10.5

See attached photo.  That is the process on the 316 although this is a picture of my 424. I did not remove the drive from the 424 and only selected "Cancel"

Message 16 of 30
StephenB
Guru

Re: ReadyNAS 316 upgrade to 6.10.5


@NathanWoodruff wrote:

See attached photo.  That is the process on the 316 although this is a picture of my 424. I did not remove the drive from the 424 and only selected "Cancel"


So you removed a RAID group from the volume.  How do you know that RAID group was only on the 12 TB disk?  Normally with RAID-5 it would not have been.

 

Have you been routinely destroying and creating RAID groups on the volume?

When you removed the 12 TB drive, did the volume say it was degraded?  You might need to look in the ReadyNAS log for that.

Message 17 of 30
NathanWoodruff
Aspirant

Re: ReadyNAS 316 upgrade to 6.10.5


@StephenB wrote:

@NathanWoodruff wrote:

See attached photo.  That is the process on the 316 although this is a picture of my 424. I did not remove the drive from the 424 and only selected "Cancel"


So you removed a RAID group from the volume.  How do you know that RAID group was only on the 12 TB disk?  Normally with RAID-5 it would not have been.

 

Have you been routinely destroying and creating RAID groups on the volume?

When you removed the 12 TB drive, did the volume say it was degraded?  You might need to look in the ReadyNAS log for that.


As I have stated, I did not perform the remove drive from the volume until the 18TB drive was inserted into the VOLUME giving me about 22 TB of free space. I clicked on the 12 TB drive and clicked on the RED X to remove the 12 TB drive from the VOLUME leaving about 9TB of free space when the removal process was complete. It took several days for the 12TB drive to be removed as again I have said previously. And also as I have said previously, I was able to use the VOLUME with the 18TB drive in it for about a day until I upgraded the version to 6.10.5. Nowhere was the volume ever degraded. I've mentioned twice before using the VOLUME with the 18TB drive inserted into the VOLUME with the 12TB drive removed. AGAIN, the VOLUME was not degraded. And also as I have stated prevously, the 18TB drive is dead. Window 10 recognizes the drive but fails to read and write to and from it. I've already put in a return request for a new drive. 

 

So the only way now anyone can help me, is let me know what the procedure is to inserting a new drive and rebuilding the VOLUME as there is no instruction on the internet to do that, well atleast for a ReadyNas box. 

Message 18 of 30
NathanWoodruff
Aspirant

Re: ReadyNAS 316 upgrade to 6.10.5


 

Have you been routinely destroying and creating RAID groups on the volume?


Yes, the original Nas box was a 202 with 2 1TB drives. I would remove one drive with the process I described and insert another larger drive. The volume grew from 2 TB using 1TB drives to then 2 2TB drives swapping them out one at a time, to 2 4TB drives. To taking those 2 4TB drives out of a 202 and putting them into a 424 and adding 2 more drives to the volume to swapping out the 4TB drives one at at time to 5 TB drives then to 10 TB drives one at a time to taking out the 4 drives and placing them in a 316 and adding 10 TB drives to swapping out and adding 12 TB drives to swapping out and adding 16 TB drives to now swapping out and adding 18 TB drives. All the time using the exact same procedure as I have previously stated several times. I've never had a problem with this volume until now. I purchased the original 202 in 2014 I believe. So that SINGLE VOLUME has been been swapped in and out with new drives numerious times with ZERO degrading and ZERO errors for 8 years up until now. I know the process and have done the exact same process for years. Never had a problem. The problem is not with the process but the failed drive. 

 

I even have digitized VHS tapes on this VOLUME from a camcorder from the mid 1980's, including my wedding from 1988. I don't have a back up to any of that. But I still have the VHS tapes, but no way to play them. To bad I never video taped the divorce. 

Message 19 of 30
StephenB
Guru

Re: ReadyNAS 316 upgrade to 6.10.5

The reason I am pressing on this it that the process you've been using simply would not have worked with RAID-5. It would have worked with concatenated jbod raid groups (which would have no RAID redundancy). And if you had set it up as concatenated jbod, then that would also explain the earlier screenshots which all show a jbod RAID group, and not a RAID-5 one.

 

So given all the facts, it appears you didn't have the RAID setup you thought you did. The mode you appear to have has no RAID redundancy.  And without redundancy, the data on the failed drive cannot be recovered.

 

However, I am also thinking that putting the 12 TB drive back in (with all the rest), and powering up the NAS is worth a try. With RAID-5 that wouldn't have worked, but it might work with the RAID setup I think you actually have. Use the boot menu option to boot the NAS read-only, just to preserve your options for possible recovery.  The instructions for a read-only boot with an RN316 are on page 81 here: https://www.netgear.com/support/product/RN424.aspx#docs

 

As I've said a couple times already, Netgear paid support is an option, and if I am correct on the RAID mode you have, they should be able to remount your volume remotely with the original drives even if just putting 12 TB drive back in were to fail. 

 

It is also possible that RAID recovery software could get at least some of your data back. You'd need recovery software that supports BTRFS - ReclaiMe is one that is commonly used here.  And you'd need enough drive space to off-load the data.  Though it's clear you should invest in that anyway, and put a backup plan in place for the NAS.

 


@NathanWoodruff wrote:

So the only way now anyone can help me, is let me know what the procedure is to inserting a new drive and rebuilding the VOLUME as there is no instruction on the internet to do that, well atleast for a ReadyNas box. 


FWIW, creating a new volume is well described in ReadyNAS manuals, which are all available here: https://www.netgear.com/support/product/RN316.aspx#docs

 

 

Message 20 of 30
NathanWoodruff
Aspirant

Re: ReadyNAS 316 upgrade to 6.10.5



FWIW, creating a new volume is well described in ReadyNAS manuals, which are all available here: https://www.netgear.com/support/product/RN316.aspx#docs

 

 


I don't understand why you keep pushing building a new volume when all I have been asking repeately for is REBUILDING one. I'm asking for apples and all you are handing me is oranges. 

Message 21 of 30
StephenB
Guru

Re: ReadyNAS 316 upgrade to 6.10.5


@NathanWoodruff wrote:

I don't understand why you keep pushing building a new volume when all I have been asking repeately for is REBUILDING one. I'm asking for apples and all you are handing me is oranges. 


I get you're frustrated and angry at losing precious data. But that's not on me. I don't work for Netgear, and am just another user trying to help you out.  And I've already given you the best advice I have on restoring your data more than once.

  1. paid Netgear support or
  2. btrfs recovery with ReclaiMe

If re-inserting the 12 TB disk in slot 1 (NAS powered down) and then booting up in read-only mode doesn't remount your volume, then I personally think your best option is paid Netgear support.  

 

Both will cost. Paid Netgear support likely will be cheaper, and I think the chances of them being able to repair and mount your current volume without needing to offload the data are pretty good. ReclaiMe definitely would require purchasing some hardware in addition to the software itself - external drives to hold your data, plus a USB/SATA enclosure or multiple USB/SATA adapters to allow you to connect all the disks to a PC.

 

Message 22 of 30
NathanWoodruff
Aspirant

Re: ReadyNAS 316 upgrade to 6.10.5


Both will cost. Paid Netgear support likely will be cheaper, and I think the chances of them being able to repair and mount your current volume without needing to offload the data are pretty good. ReclaiMe definitely would require purchasing some hardware in addition to the software itself - external drives to hold your data, plus a USB/SATA enclosure or multiple USB/SATA adapters to allow you to connect all the disks to a PC.

 


This is what I was asking for and I already purchased a 6 port sata pcie card ($55 at Vantec 6-Port 6Gb/s PCIe RAID Host Card with HyperDuo Technology - Micro Center) to attempt the ReclaiMe, which is a free download. I need to purchase a few USB Drives yet, as the last one I purchased was a 10TB drive that I used to backup 3 different laptops. There is space on that USB drive but not enough to copy off important files should I be able to see data once the drives are booted and ReclaiMe run. I'm thinking I need maybe 2 or 3 10TB drives if I can find them at a decent price. (WD 10TB Elements Desktop Hard Drive HDD, USB 3.0, Compatible with PC, Mac, PS4 & Xbox - WDBWLG0100HB...)

 

I'll get back to you once I am in a position to think about rebuilding the VOLUME if I am able to get enough data off. If it a lost cause. I'll think about paid Netgear Support or I'll wipe the entire thing clean and start all over. But that is propbably an entire weekend project. 

 

 

Message 23 of 30
Sandshark
Sensei

Re: ReadyNAS 316 upgrade to 6.10.5

If/when you do ultimately decide to create a new volume, I suggest you do some research on the types available.  The concatenated JBOD volume you currently have is the most susceptible to data loss.  The loss of any drive will cause loss of the complete volume (placing you where you are now).  While RAID isn't a backup scheme, it's much more robust.  Even if you have an independent backup, you need to think about your time to restore from backup if you do use another volume type and have another drive failure, as opposed to simply replacing the drive and letting the NAS do the work in RAID.

Message 24 of 30
NathanWoodruff
Aspirant

Re: ReadyNAS 316 upgrade to 6.10.5

I originally created this volume on a 202. Migrated the 2 drives to a 424 and added 2 drives when I ran out of space. Those 4 drives in the 424 were eventually removed the the volume and swapped in larger drives. Then those 4 drives were taken out of the 424 and place in the 316. The same process of swapping in larger and larger drives. I was so confident with the process and never ever having a failed drive or even the slightest problem in 8 years or so, I never thought a new Seagate drive would fail. As I have searched the internet on this specific 18TB drive, it appears that there are a bunch of them being delivered DOA as I'm not the only one having problems with this drive. It was cheap $400 and some. The other 18TB drives are Seagate NAS Pro drives. I should have stuck with them and I wouldn't be in this situation I am in now. 

Message 25 of 30
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