Re: SMB1 solution?

Blanker-2 · ‎2018-09-06

Hi guys, I'm assuming my RN312 unit (bought in 2017) is using SMB1 but how do I know? I was doing a fresh wipe of my readnas system at the same time as upgrading from Windows 7 to Windows 10. I could not connect to my shares on Win10 so after reading some other posts on here, I created a user in the nas with the same name as my windows profile and the same password as my user on the nas (I just use admin on the nas). This worked but I also see the volume shares and other folders - no big deal. I'm assuming that my nas is using SMB1? So what are my options here?

1. Every time I want one of my computers in my home to access the nas will I have to create another user on the nas with the same name as the profile of that windows user? What about cell phones, my dune, etc? This sounds pretty undesirable.

2. I understand this is a Windows thing but is Netgear providing any solutions?

3. I saw the SMB plus app on my readynas, would this help?

Should I be looking for a new NAS?

mdgm · ‎2018-09-06

A new ReadyNAS is going to be running the same firmware as your RN312, so getting a new unit is not the solution.

The RN312 runs ReadyNAS OS 6 which has support for SMB3 and is getting updates with newer versions of the samba project (used for SMB service) over time.

Make sure the NAS is in the same workgroup as your PC.

StephenB · ‎2018-09-07

@Blanker-2 wrote:

I created a user in the nas with the same name as my windows profile and the same password as my user on the nas (I just use admin on the nas). This worked but I also see the volume shares and other folders - no big deal. I'm assuming that my nas is using SMB1?

If you were using SMB1, then this trick wouldn't have worked.

You are using SMB3. The issue you had initially was that Microsoft is also making adjustments to limit guest access (along with deprecating SMB1). The account you created in the NAS solves this.

On the ability to see the full volume - there are two possible reasons for this:

You might be using the NAS admin account credentials in the PC. You can look in the windows credential manager to check this.
Your new NAS user might be in the NAS admin group. If that's the case, you can shift that user to the users group.

Or of course leave it as it is.

powellandy1 · ‎2018-09-08

Having done a couple of fresh Win10 installs and ReadyNAS factory resets recently I can echo what mdgm and StephenB have said.

I have always needed to do two things:

1) On the NAS - make sure the workgroup is set to the workgroup name you use in Windows

In ReadyNAS -> System -> Settings -> Click on SMB -> Change Workgroup name WORKGROUP to whatever you use. I also tick the Legacy Windows Discovery box as I have a few Win7 media centres.

2) In Windows type Credential Manager into the search box (or find it in the old control panel) -> Select Windows Credentials at the top -> Select Add Windows Credential -> network address is name of NAS (set during inititalisation and on overview screen in ReadyNAS OS) and then username and password to admin and whatever your password is.

This has always worked for me. Hope it helps.

Andy

Blanker-2 · ‎2018-09-08

Thanks everyone. The nas is on the same worgroup as my pc., Windows credentials manager already has the nas in there, and my new nas user is in the users group, not Admin. That's fine though. I think I was messing around with the access setting of the share.

So if it seems I am using SMB3, and this is a Win10 issue, as far as accessing the share from 3 other computers in my house, I need to add a new user to the nas for each machine I want to connect to it?

StephenB · ‎2018-09-08

@Blanker-2 wrote:

as far as accessing the share from 3 other computers in my house, I need to add a new user to the nas for each machine I want to connect to it?

No, you can use the same NAS credentials on all the PCs.

schumaku · ‎2018-09-10

@Blanker-2 wrote:

..., I created a user in the nas with the same name as my windows profile and the same password as my user on the nas (I just use admin on the nas).

1. Every time I want one of my computers in my home to access the nas will I have to create another user on the nas with the same name as the profile of that windows user? What about cell phones, my dune, etc? This sounds pretty undesirable.

A user is to identify the user - not a specific system. Ideally, users are combined into groups with similar/same access rights. And the shared folder access is based on groups, not individual users.

An exception might be Dune or other media players potentially using DLNA/UPnP AV - in DLNA, there is no user access right design, so watch your steps.

@Blanker-2 wrote:

This worked but I also see the volume shares and other folders - no big deal. I'm assuming that my nas is using SMB1? So what are my options here?

3. I saw the SMB plus app on my readynas, would this help?

ReadyNAS OS 6 and most consumer NAS have the share enumeration wide open, this will allow to browse the shared folders by using a non-authenticated connection. The competition has introduced controls to the readily available SAMBA "access based share enum" with recent updates.

@Blanker-2 wrote:

2. I understand this is a Windows thing but is Netgear providing any solutions?

Amazingly (not so...), Netgear promoting ReadyNAS more for the business environment is always behind - my requests to add these controls to OS 6 were ignored - there it went your business, Netgear.

The SMB plus app has controls for the SAMBA "hide unreadable" and "hide unwriteable" affecting (sub-)folders and files only, so it's only a part of what you are behind.

Edit: All this is independent of the SMB 1.0, 2.0, 2.1, or 3.0 protocol level used to access the NAS.

Blanker-2 · ‎2018-09-10

Thanks for the help. I'm not sure I understand all of what you are saying. I need a crash course on user controls. I use my 312 in a home environment, mainly to stream movies to my dunes throughout the house via smb, not dlna. I also take advantage of btrfs self healing for my repository of personal files that I share on the network.

Sandshark · ‎2018-09-10

If you are accessing the NAS by name, try switching to IP address. I had to do that after the latest Windows 10 update.

schumaku · ‎2018-09-10

@Sandshark wrote:

If you are accessing the NAS by name, try switching to IP address. I had to do that after the latest Windows 10 update.

ReadyNAS OS 6.9.4 (current) and a few builds before already introduced the WS-Discovery, and have disabled NetBIOS discovery name resolution by default.

Permitting the Windows 10 system is configured into a trusted private network (not a public network), all the systems are configured to the correct IP subnet, and there is no borked network device blocking Multicast, the ReadyNAS will show up in Windows Explorer, and the name is resolveable, too. Open Windows Explorer, and make the Discovery Method visible, you will see the WSD devices:

No tricks, no rocket science.

If you have legacy NAS systems (e.g. old RAIDiator systems), you must open the Windows Features and enable both the CIFS/SMB 1.0 Client and CIFS/SMB 1.0 Server (to bring back the NetBIOS name resolution and discovery).

Sandshark · ‎2018-09-10

If this answer was intended for me, please use the correct thread (Using-your-ReadyNAS/Access-issues-after-upgrade-to-Win10-V1803 instead of hijackng the other user's thread for something that may not apply.

Not the solution, BTW. Still looking for one.

schumaku · ‎2018-09-10

Well, it was the answer for your hint of having to use the IP address. This might make sense - just for one time - in case the Windows 10 system is configured to a Public Network, Explorer will suggest in a notification bar that you might have to make the current network to a private one.

Blanker-2 · ‎2018-09-11

I appreciate all the help on this, but can I just say something here - you guys obviously posess knowledge far beyond the casual home user that just wants to store home files on their network, something that I'm assuming my nas (312) was designed for. (A 2 bay NAS that sold for around $300). With all of the problem I and many others are experiencing just simply getting a shared folder to show up in Windows 10, and the complex workarounds that I can't begin to understand - how on earth can this product be marketed to the gen pop and be successful?

I'm not sure where I am pointing the finger at, Microsoft, Netgear, I don't know, but something has got to be done to make this easier.

I'm certainly glad I have this forum and the great help and support I have received with the many issues I have asked for help with. If it wasn't for you guys I would have looked for alternatives long ago. Or just went back to my freenas system that is currently sitting in my closet.

schumaku · ‎2018-09-12

@Blanker-2 thank you for the encouraging words! Many other community members silently disappear once they have got the solution (or not).

Have quickly re-read this thread. Honestly, I can't find any complex workarounds. Can you?

The ReadyNAS screenshots were taken on very early ReadyNAS OS 6 units from the first OS 6 hardware generation (a RN516) and the second generation OS 6 hardware (a 10 GbE enabled RN628X), an early two bay ARM based OS 6 Beta sample (similar to your RN312) unfortunatley died. Along with some tests for factory reset and recovery during the Beta period, we have not applied any config changes at the level shown. ReadyNAS OS 6 was always visible by the now legacy NetBIOS host announcements and name resolution, since some builds (I even have not recognized the change because I have the Windows 10 CIFS/SMB 1.0 Feature [inheriting the NetBIOS server resp. client support] enabled to retain compatibility with legacy NAS) the ReadyNAS are WS-Discovery (WSD) announced. I admit that these two ReadyNAS are on 6.9.4 Beta and RC for a longer time already. Overall - and believe me I would have complained - Netgear has done a good job with the ReadyNAS OS 6 systems when it came to the technical progress and Microsoft enforced changes of dropping SMB 1.0 and NetBIOS host announcement and name resolution starting from some point in the Windows 10 life cycle (annouced years ago!).

Most of your confusion must have triggered by other discussions, explanation, lot of many times false noise in the net. Being that these were caused by the SMB 1.0 vulnerabilities which existed on Windows and SAMBA (the Open Source implemented on most U**x based NAS and top of the line business storage systems), being by Microsoft implementing a little bit a complex way for the phase out (behavior depending on the system status being scratch installed or updated).

The most overseen detail is Windows 10 is asking when connecting to a network (WiFi or Ethernet) if the network connected to is open and public, or trusted and private. This makes Windows 10 behave different in firewall rules as well as in services active and workable on the network. Also some Windows OEMs who think it's a great idea not having the Windows File Sharing protocols enabled on the network interfaces (proof enough they don't understand Windows concepts). And sometimes it seems that Windows does silently decide to make a previously trusted network to a pubic one. Changing this is rather easy from Explorer, permitting one does know the NAS IP address - an access attempt by say \\192.168.1.234 does trigger a notification helping the user to change the network to a private, trusted one.

Last, the number of "bigger" oddities - I hope @Sandshark does read this. In some very few occasions, users continue to have problems on some Windows system to discover the NAS properly (mostly networking issues, poor subnet configurations, or bad networking components blocking IP Multicast traffic). And the very few ones which can discover the NAS by name, and badly fail while attempting to establish the connection (potential cause can be a bigger corruption of the Windows system [sigh, I had one and never figured out - everything looked absolutely perfect - only a scratch re-installation cured], or by third party Internet Security and firewall [sorry:] garbage (because it does cause issues normal users can't overcome the problems).

Regards,

-Kurt

Sandshark · ‎2018-09-12

I have read it. But you don't have all the information, which is in the thread I included a link to. The NASes are discovered just fine. I just can't actually access them by name.

Blanker-2 · ‎2018-09-12

How do you access them then?

StephenB · ‎2018-09-12

@Blanker-2 wrote:
How do you access them then?

The other way is to access them by their IP address.