access denied to data on my ReadyNAS NV+ running 4.1.14 after a changed security mode to "user" mode

[gordonwebb]

I suddenly had access problem connecting my imac and windows 7 computers to my ReadyNAS NV+ data.

I thus read the latest manual which said that the default security mode of "share" is not compative with the latest versions of windows 7 and apple OS X.

As recommended i changed the security mode to "user" mode which now requires user accounts to be set up for access.

I would have liked to add all the user accouts and passwords form each of the devices on my network to give them access to the NAS. However all the devices on my local network have user accounts with a space like "John Smith" and the READYNAS will not accept a user name with a space.

I thus set up two new user accounts but without a space - like "johnsmith" with a password the same as "John Smith" on the devices. Both users are in the default "users" primary group

I could not gain access to the existing shares. However I did manage to set up a new share using all the defaults and with public access (and thus the "allow guest access" is ticked in the first section of the share action restrictions). This has worked for a while but I am currently also restricted form access the new shares as well. I have tried using the "John Smith" as well as the "johnsmith" user names but I am denied access. I then tried the nuclear option of using the advanced options in the share and changing the share folder owner to johnsmith and the share folder group to "users". I also ticked the "Set ownership and permission for existing files and folders in this share to the above settings" box and the "Grant rename and delete privileges to non-owner of files"

I expected that this would allow me access as a guest or as a user "johnsmith".

However I am now denied access to all my data.

I can use windows explorer to see the NAS and the folders but cannot access my data.

I can access the ReadyNAS using raidar and the admin access. I can also set up a new share in the user secuity mode with all the default settings.

However I now cannot access a new share or the old shares

I have wasted many hours. This has all been caused by the default security mode being not compatible with the current windows 7 OS for windows and apple OSX.

I have had two occasions recently when the NAS was on but I could not find it using raidar. I also could not switch it off using the power button on the front and had to resort to unpluging the power restarting it to get access back.  Have I perhaps got a hardware problem?

What I would be really grateful is advice on 

1 how to set us and get access to a new share

2 how to get access to the data stored in the old shares

I dont need any clever security just something that works with the other devices on the network that need to access it to backup their data

Regards

Gordon Webb

PS the unit has 4 2 tb disks in - all compitable giving it 6tb of raid protected data. It even warned me of a SMART test failure recently and I was able to successfully replace the smart test failed drive with no loss of data.

[gordonwebb]

I am just adding more information

When I add a new share the share folder owner and share folder group are blank. entering "admin" and "nogroup" as well as ticking the two boxes below and clicking "apply" results in a "successful" message but then the ticks are unticked and the fields balnked so it is not possible to set up these fields for a new share. The original shares do however have the johnsmith and admin share folder owners.

Looks to me like the OS has become corrupted as it wont now work as it used to?

[mdgm-ntgr]

Do you have a backup of your data? Before doing things like changing the security mode it is advisable to make sure your regular backup is up to date.

[gordonwebb]

This is my backup! I dont do backups of backups.

I do have the original of most of the data at the moment.

The total data I had on this system was about 4Tb so not feasable to backup.

You havent offerred any suggestions or advised if this is a system problem with your software whai no longer works properly?

Gordon Webb

[StephenB]

Try the settings I posted here: https://community.netgear.com/t5/Using-your-ReadyNAS/ReadyNAS-NV-performance-and-file-permission-iss...

If the shares are open (allowing guest access) then you don't need a bunch of user accounts on the NAS.  You can actually delete them all, and as long as no one is using their windows admin account, the shares will be accessible.

[gordonwebb]

Thanks for your suggestion

I am trying it out on a new share as I dont want to compromise my data.

I set up a new share (with public access) and got a confirmation that it had been set up successfully. However I also got a second confirmation about the successful set up of another trial share that I set up yesterday. It did not used to do this.

I then modified the share as you suggest by ticking the two boxes in the Advanced CIFS Permissions. I appled this and it was accepted

I then went to Advanced Options and the Share Folder Owner and Share Folder Group were blank. This was not the case in the past.

I then added nobody and nogroup as instructed and ticked the two boxes below and clicked apply.

I got a message and then all the boxes were cleared so I am unable to enter anything in the Share Folder Owner and Share Folder Group fields as if I do these are cleared. This also apples to the tick boxes below.

It seems to be connecting the last two shares I have made and not operating the permissins properly.

My original shares do have entries in the Share Folder Owner and Share Folder Group boxes.

I then closed the admin access to the NAS by closing the browser window

Windows Explorer shows the NAS and the folders (new and old shares) but will not give me access to the files

The NAS seems to be treating the original shares (Media and backup) and the first new share I set up (newbackup) differently from the other two new test shares that I have added. These last two test shares will not accept anything in the Share Folder Owner and Share Folder Group boxes and they both respond to any changes to either

Clicking on the browser on raidar also give me access ot the folders but not to the files.

Further suggestions would be appreciated.

btw I have bought a new RND104 and a 4tb drive today as i need to get new backups going asap

Regards

Gordon Webb

[StephenB]

---

@gordonwebb wrote:

I then added nobody and nogroup as instructed and ticked the two boxes below and clicked apply.

I got a message and then all the boxes were cleared so I am unable to enter anything in the Share Folder Owner and Share Folder Group fields as if I do these are cleared. This also apples to the tick boxes below.

---

The message is normal, and the top check box is cleared when you hit apply.  The others should not clear that way.

So something isn't right - perhaps a filling OS partition?...  You could try clearing the logs (don't download them) and see if the behavior changes.  You could also try per-incident Netgear support (though they will charge).  

[gordonwebb]

I have cleared the logs having copied and pasted a copy first so I have a record.

There is no change in the behavoir

Is there any way to reinstall the OS without losing the data?

It seems rather unfair that I have suddenly lost access to my data when all i did was to take the Netgear advice to change the security to user mode.

I have all my passwords and the hardware has not failed as far as I know.

This is not a risk that I had thought I was taking. 

Perhpas you should make it clearer that your OS does not support this security change?

Will it be OK if I do a factory reset, change the security mode to user and then unstall new shares and data?

Regards

Gordon Webb 

[StephenB]

---

@gordonwebb wrote:

Perhpas you should make it clearer that your OS does not support this security change?

---

Just to be clear - though I am a mod, I do not work for Netgear.  Netgear employees who are active here have the logo next to their names.

However, the OS certainly does support this security change, and many users have switched to user mode.  It's not clear to me what went wrong in your case.  Perhaps someone from Netgear will take offer to take a look at your system.  If not, then the safest thing to do is engage Netgear support.

Have you tried accessing the share over SMB/Windows file explorer using the NAS admin credentials?

One way to do that in a windows system is via CMD

net use * /delete

net use t: \\nasipaddress\C /user:admin adminpassword

That should map the C volume to the PC drive letter T.

[gordonwebb]

Hi StephenB

Thank you – I seem to be getting somewhere at last.

I tried your suggestion of using a command prompt and maping the T drive with the NAS admin credentials and it worked! I was able to copy data from at least 2 of the shares that I thought I did not have access to.

It seems that the problem must be windows networking credentials so not really a Netgear ReadyNAS issue.

I will have to do more investigation on how to get my apple time machine and the windows backup and restore to access the ReadyNAS but thanks very much for the direction.

I now have confidence that it is all solveable!

I will let you know if there are any conclusions.

Kind regards

Gordon Webb

[StephenB]

You should be able to get the data onto the RN104 (perhaps by running an NV+ backup job for each share, with the RN104 share as the destination, and then resetting the owners/permissions on the RN104 share).

[gordonwebb]

Thanks - I am ready to try this now. I plan to backup the volume C: to include everything. However I cant find the Time Machine data which i thought should show on the NV+ when I browse it. Why is it not shown when I browse the NV+ and will it be transferred if I backup Volume C: or do I need to backup the "Time Machine" as a seperate source as well?

I plan to backup, factory reset the NV+ and then restore all the files to see if that works. If not I will then try to use the 104 to reset the permissions as you suggest.

Thnaks again for all your help with this issue.

Kind regards

[StephenB]

I'm not sure if it is possible to move the time machine backups - perhaps an OSX user will chime in.

Though it might be simplest to start fresh on the RN104, and let the old backups go.

[mdgm-ntgr]

The Time Machine backup data is in the hidden .timemachine share on the C volume. It is possible to reset the permissions on these backups and move them across to the correct location on the new NAS but as StephenB mentioned it would probably be easier to start with fresh backups.

You can backup to multiple destinations using Time Machine so you could alternate each hour between backing up to the NV+ and to the new NAS.

[gordonwebb]

Thanks for your helpful response.

Actually the Time Machine backups on my NV+ are from 2 apple machines - one used by my wife and one used by my daughter.  My daughter is currently in Australia with her laptop so I can’t get a new backup from her laptop. She has not lost her laptop yet but the backup I have is meant to be there in case she does!

Thus my ideal solution would be to copy the time machine backups from the NV+ to the RN104. That way I would be confident I had an emergency backup for my daughter.

When using my wife’s apple computer, I can access the NV+ using "finder" (windows explorer =t) and see the two sparse bundles. Thus I know I can access these.

I have also set up my wife's machine so it now uses its Time Machine to back up to the RN104.

My challenge is now to copy the time machine backup from the NV+ to the RN104 or at least the data for my daughter’s time machine.

I am trying to do this by using the backup function on the NV+ to transfer the data to the RN104

I can see the source can be chosen as "Time Machine"

However I am struggling to enter the destination information to move the data to the RN104.

I am trying to do this using a windows computer and RAIDar

How do I choose the correct destination as the RN104?

Do I use "Remote: Windows/NAS (Timestamp)" as the destination and if so then how do I find the path? I tried using the RN104 name but that does not seem to work.

The NV+ became inaccessible again last night and I had to switch it off at the plug and reboot to get back control. I think this is probably a hardware problem and want to get the Time Machine data before I lose assess completely. Its working OK at the moment!

Further guidance would be much appreciated.

Kind regards

Gordon Webb

[mdgm-ntgr]

The Time Machine data is stored on the hidden .timemachine folder on the data volume on OS6, but doing a backup job the ownership/permissions of the sparsebundle would be set incorrectly.

I would start by creating a share on the new NAS and calling it e.g. TMbkup, and backup the data to there.

[gordonwebb]

Thanks for your suggestion - I have done as you suggest. I then used the backup function on the NV+ to backup the timemachine data to the new share on the RN104. This took about 24 hours and at the end came up with the following message

"Error encountered copying data from source path /c/.timemachine ==> //nas-E5-44-B4/TMbkup due to unknown reason. Please see log. [Job 002]"

The Job 002 log says 

"

FULL Backup started. Fri Mar 11 10:01:22 WET 2016

Job: 002
Protocol: cifs
Source: [Time Machine]
Destination: //nas-E5-44-B4/TMbkup

`./.AppleDouble' -> `/job_002/.AppleDouble'
`./.AppleDouble/.com.apple.timemachine.supported' -> `/job_002/.AppleDouble/.com.apple.timemachine.supported'
`./.AppleDouble/.00254ba7d710' -> `/job_002/.AppleDouble/.00254ba7d710'
`./.AppleDouble/.Parent' -> `/job_002/.AppleDouble/.Parent'
cp: cannot create directory `/job_002/Temporary Items': No such file or directory
`./Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle' -> `/job_002/Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle'
`./Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/Info.bckup' -> `/job_002/Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/Info.bckup'
`./Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/.AppleDouble' -> `/job_002/Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/.AppleDouble'
`./Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/.AppleDouble/Info.bckup' -> `/job_002/Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/.AppleDouble/Info.bckup'
`./Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/.AppleDouble/Info.plist' -> `/job_002/Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/.AppleDouble/Info.plist'
`./Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/.AppleDouble/com.apple.TimeMachine.SnapshotHistory.plist' -> `/job_002/Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/.AppleDouble/com.apple.TimeMachine.SnapshotHistory.plist'
`./Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/.AppleDouble/com.apple.TimeMachine.Results.plist' -> `/job_002/Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/.AppleDouble/com.apple.TimeMachine.Results.plist'
`./Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/.AppleDouble/com.apple.TimeMachine.MachineID.bckup' -> `/job_002/Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/.AppleDouble/com.apple.TimeMachine.MachineID.bckup'
`./Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/.AppleDouble/token' -> `/job_002/Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/.AppleDouble/token'
`./Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/.AppleDouble/com.apple.TimeMachine.MachineID.plist' -> `/job_002/Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/.AppleDouble/com.apple.TimeMachine.MachineID.plist'
`./Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/.AppleDouble/.Parent' -> `/job_002/Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/.AppleDouble/.Parent'
`./Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/Info.plist' -> `/job_002/Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/Info.plist'
`./Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/com.apple.TimeMachine.SnapshotHistory.plist' -> `/job_002/Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/com.apple.TimeMachine.SnapshotHistory.plist'
`./Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/com.apple.TimeMachine.Results.plist' -> `/job_002/Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/com.apple.TimeMachine.Results.plist'
`./Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/com.apple.TimeMachine.MachineID.bckup' -> `/job_002/Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/com.apple.TimeMachine.MachineID.bckup'
`./Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/token' -> `/job_002/Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/token'
`./Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/com.apple.TimeMachine.MachineID.plist' -> `/job_002/Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/com.apple.TimeMachine.MachineID.plist'
`./Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/bands' -> `/job_002/Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/bands'
`./Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/bands/4946' -> `/job_002/Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/bands/4946'
`./Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/bands/9c17' -> `/job_002/Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/bands/9c17'
`./Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/bands/876f' -> `/job_002/Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/bands/876f'
`./Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/bands/27eb' -> `/job_002/Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/bands/27eb'
`./Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/bands/83d8' -> `/job_002/Gordon Webb’s iMac.sparsebundle/bands/83d8'"

Then a lot more of the same until at the end is says

"The logs have exceeded the maximum length and have been truncated.  You can access the full backup log by downloading the system logs."

I can access the data using "finder" on the mac and "windows explorer" on the windows machine. The size of the data transferred looks about right but I have not checked exactly.

However the time mcahine cannot see the "TMbkup" share presumably because it is not in the .timeshare hidden area and anyway may not be usable because of the error.

In order to ensure I have backups working now, I have set up the imac and the windows machine to backup to the new NAS RN104 and that is working fine. The only issue is to get to the other Apple Time Machine backup on the NV+.

Do you have any other suggestions?

Thnaks for all your help.

Regards

Gordon webb