I have just installed a new orbi setup with router and 1 x satellite. I struggled for 2 days trying to work out why some devices iPad 2 and an Android Phone were disconnecting on a very regular basis. Eventually I reduced the 2.4ghz band transmit power to 25%, this has fixed all of the disconnects. 5.0ghz is set to 100%. Also currently beam forming and mu-mimo are turned off. Previously I was using an Asus router with dual band wifi, but the bands had different SSIDs. I think the fact that the Orbi has a single SSID is causing some devices to disconnect due to the competing signals. I am very familiar with wifi systems having installed simple access points and enterprise wide systems at our customers, and my reason for using Orbi was to look at a possible new solution for our customers.

Did that fixed your problem? I am experiencing the same problem as you described, sudden and regular disconnection on some of the ipad at home. Other devices seem to work with no problem but I ADS are suddenly disconnected (I have even the latest version) Thank for the feedback you can provide me

Yes... As Andy mentioned on his last comment, even reducing the 2.4ghz signal to 25% does not solve the connection issue with IOS (and Android) devices. Change my setup to 25% and I am still facing sudden signal drops.... :-( Have you had any issues using the new beta firmware? Is it stable? Thanks

Hi Took me some time to gather all the info you request me (thank you for helping me with this!). I'll answer in Caps bellow your questions 1: You have more than one endpoint in the same room experiencing the same performance and/or availabilty issues at the same time. I USUALLY HAVE MY LAPTOP, PHONE, AND IPAD TOGHEtHER IN THE SAME ROOM. IN SOME INSTANCES ONE OF MY SONS ARE AROUND WITH THEIR DEVICES. THE DISCONNECTIONS ONLY HAPPEN ON OUR IPADS DEVICES. I DO NOT EXPERIENCE ANY CONNECTION ISSUE WTH MY LAPTOP OR MY SON LAPTOP ON THE SAME ROOM. I CANT TELL YOU FOR SURE ABOUT MY PHONE, IT SEEMS NOT TO HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS 2: You have one or more endpoints experiencing availability issues when you are not moving around the house. ALL CONNECTION DROPS SEEMS TO BE WHEN CONNECTED TO THE SATELLITE. MY HOUSE HAS TWO FLOORS, UPSTAIRS IS WHERE I HAVE THE MAIN HUB AND DOWNSTAIRS THE SATELLITE. NO MATTER WHERE I LOCATED (DISTANCE TO THE SATELITE) THE IPADS HAVE SUDDEN DISCONNECTIONS. 3: You have one or more endpoints experiencing performance issues when you are in the same room as the access point. YES. 4: You have a single endpoint experincing performance and/or availabilty issues in the same room as another endpoint at the same time that is not experiencing the same issue. YES (MI IPAD GETS DISCONECCTED, MY LAPTOP KEEPS A STEADY CONNECTION) 5: You have one or more endpoints that experiences an availablity and/or performance issue that can be reproduced on demand. IF I UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION CORRECTLY, THE ANSWER IS NO. THE SIGNAL DROPS ON IOS DEVICES OCCUR UNEXPECTEDLY. ALL iPADS IN THE HOUSE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM (AND I HAVE TO BEAR MY SON MADDNES WHEN THAT SUDDEN DISCONACTION HAPPENS IN THE MIDDLE OF ONE OF THIS CLASH OF CLANS BATTLES... ;-) Thanks again for your help and let me know if you need any other information

BobertSaget, for some reason images are not loading. I use WiFi Explorer and load AP Timecourses. You can switch between 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz and then select an individual SSID. As BobertSaget says the backhaul ones have no SSID. The results are eye opening.

All things considered, except due to a hardware fault or a firmware error, the unit should not be contributing to backhaul failure. Not intermittently anyway. Going to get really technical now, sorry for those who have trouble following. Let's assume that the backhaul is a standard WDS link, with the router being the root and the satellite being the client. Let's also assume the total power budget of the link to remain the same (no change in obsticals or antennas), and let's also assume a minimum SNR of 20dB. So, the WDS operates at a symbol rate that is optimised for the RSSI, nice and stable, well established. It may indeed get some additional spatial streams up at reasonable symbol rates, but for the sake of troubleshooting let's assume it stays on a single stream. So now you have an established link, at least 20dB above the noise floor required for the symbol rate and no changes in physical environment. Why would the link fail? There is a small chance that there is noice introduced, and considering we are likely operating on an 80MHz wide channel using omidirectional antennas that is quite likely. But even if such a thing happened the unit would drop the symbol rate to bring the RSSI back to the minimum reliable level and/or narrow the channel width so that it could move away from the noise (assuming the noise is not right across the UNII-3 band), thus maintaining the link. If we were operating right at the edge of our coverage area that might not be possible, so that could be the cause of the link failing. If the hardware were fauly it is unlikely it would be faulty in a way that would result in intermittent failures. And if the firmware were faulty we'd see a whole lot more people experiencing this problem. There are other more sinister causes of course. You could have someone spoofing disassociation frames, but I believe there is management frame protection enabled by default on the backhaul radio (maybe even client radios). And any kind of RF denial of service would manifest for the endpoints associated to the router unit as well as the backhaul. I'd rule out the range possiblity probelm first. Alot of people place their units right at the edge of their coverage areas leaving little room for the radios to adapt to changing RF conditions. My units are placed about 20m apart with about 8dB of loss from internal walls, so I am getting a great experience (backhaul datarate seems to be around 400Mbps of client payload plus management overhead) and am quite confident that there is plenty of margin to work with for RF problems. Placement is 90% of the key to success. :)

New Orbi Setup now no disconnects on iPad and other devices

27 Replies

DarrenM
Sr. NETGEAR Moderator
Feb 08, 2017
Hello andykerslake

Thanks for sharing these tips on what is working for you.

DarrenM
- Slyke
  Guide
  May 24, 2017
  Did that fixed your problem? I am experiencing the same problem as you described, sudden and regular disconnection on some of the ipad at home. Other devices seem to work with no problem but I ADS are suddenly disconnected (I have even the latest version)
  
  Thank for the feedback you can provide me
  - andykerslake
    Star
    May 24, 2017
    Yes it did fix all the disconnects. The problem only affected Apple devices.
    
    I have not tried turning back on the 2.4Ghz as the current setup works, and I do not need that band.
    
    Andy
ikjadoon
Star
Jun 09, 2017
At Slyke, for your devices that have stable connections, could they be connected to the router instead?

For me, my Satellite-wired clients died and this confirmed the Satellite was essentially out.
Retired_Member
Jun 09, 2017
1. False
2. Not related to the problem
3. Not related to the problem

The backhaul connection from the router to the satellite is dropping which means every device connected to the satellite is technically dropping but is usually only noticed on iPads or sensitive devices like cameras and Wi-Fi calling. The problem is with the router and not the satellite and definitely not the end points.
- tallackn
  Guide
  Jun 09, 2017
  Apologies BobertSagnet, my reply was related to Slyke's last post. It does not thread so well on here. I am not sure how it would relate to a problem you may have.
  
  What we are focusing upon with those questions from Slyke is the likelyhood that the iOS devices are not roaming to the router when the satellite drops the client network when its backhaul goes down.
  
  Given the proximity of the router and the satellite there is likely coverage overlap for the client networks and it is possible that the non-iOS devices are seamlessly roaming to the router when the satellite fails.
  
  That is where my questions were focused.
Retired_Member
Jun 09, 2017
Got it, sorry about that I was only focusing on the backhaul but I'm glad you guys are taking it a step further to see how devices respond to that differently.

Quick thought that might relate, do you notice the the same speed all the time whenever you run a Speedtest on any of your devices? The backhaul drops it's 5 and 2.4 GHz signal at different rates and I wonder if non iOS devices are better at switching from one to the other instead of switching completely to the router and noticeably dropping. I will go from 230 Mbps to 50 Mbps on my android with no explanation.
- tallackn
  Guide
  Jun 09, 2017
  Yeah, that is related to band steering.
  
  When your endpoint is trying to associate to the SSID, the AP will supress the responses on 2.4GHz for a bit hoping the endpoint will give up and move to the 5GHz band, where it will answer and allow association. If it never hears the endpoint on 5GHz then it will respond on 2.4GHz. In this way endpoints that support both bands will be "steered" towards 5GHz.
  
  The reason for this is 5GHz has a whole lot more channel space. The AP can operate a 160MHz wide channel up in the UNII-1 channel space that is more often than not free of significant noise. That way it can get multiple spatial streams at nice high symbol rates and get that nice fast speed you are doing.
  
  But when your endpoint cannot associate to the 5GHz radio, perhaps because the signal is too weak (5HGz does not penetrate obsticals in the home as effectivly as 2.4GHz does) then you are going to end up on a 20MHz wide 802.11n channel on the 2.4GHz radio. Lower symbol rates, likely single spatial stream (because the additional paths are too weak), hence your lower speeds.
  
  Some endpoints do not bandsteer so well, so they may end up "sticking" to 2.4GHz after you move away from the AP (out of range of the 5GHz coverage) and then remaining on it when you walk close to the AP again. You can see this is the case if you are in the same room as the AP and associated at lower speed, turn off the endpoint wireless adapter for a few seconds, turn it back on again, and you will likely reassociate to the 5GHz radio.
  
  Some endpoints don't need to be band steered, and will always "preferr" 5GHz, always trying to use it first, and always trying to get back onto it at regular intervals. This is true for iOS devices, so you may see these suffering less from the "stickiness" that other non-iOS endpoints do.
  
  Honestly, I could prattle on for HOURS about this stuff if you let me. You'd think doing this as my day job would satisify my appetite for it, but it does not. I love this stuff. And I love this Netgear kit. Honestly, for a consumer product, this kit is amazing!
  - MrTonyToca
    Apprentice
    Jul 20, 2017
    I am having Wifi connection drop outs on my Galaxy S8+ Android phone. I have 1 Orbi router Ac3000 and 2 Ac3000 Satellites. 1 on each floor. satellite in basement. router on main floor and satellite on 2nd floor. I know this is over kill as my house is only about 1800 sq ft. But I needed the ethernet ports on each floor as I have a movie theater in basement and an extensive gaming setup on 2nd floor. Is my problem overlapping? Should I try and move my satellites farther away from my router? the new firmware removed that ability to turn down the wifi signal strength (25%,50%,75%) it has been replaced with threshold and some odd numbers. I love orbi and it was working amazing until I added my 2nd Satellite. which worked fine for 2 weeks and now I cant stay connected via my Android phone for more than 5 minutes. Please give me some suggestions. Ive tried turning beamforming off and mu-mimo and even disabling 2.4ghz band. still disconnects. is there a way to maintain the ethernet port capability of the satellites but turn off the wifi signal so I just use the router for my wifi signal and the satellites just for the ethernet connection? Thanks

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New Orbi Setup now no disconnects on iPad and other devices