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Forum Discussion
Orbi Ethernet Backhaul causing broadcast storm
I have just upgraded my Orbi router and satellites to V2.1.1.12 hoping to take advantage of the recent Ethernet backhaul feature. I use the Orbi router as my main router with a 24 port switch servicing the rest of my home network. When I tried connecting the satellites to the switch via ethernet as demonstrated in the NetGear support article (image below) the satellites appear to have caused a broadcast storm disrupting all communications across the network.
NetGear does not provide any configuration setting other than ensure firmware is upgraded on the router and satellites (they're all running 2.1.1.12). What am I missing?
I've tried this with and without disabling the Daisy-Chain Topology option with the same effect.
71 Replies
I intended to set this up tonight in this exact same house servicing switch configuration. Can someone address this post as to what to expect?
I spent a day this weekend trying every possible configuration, I factory reset the router and satellites several times, attempted connecting the satellites directly to the router via ethernet and in every scenario the satellites worked at first but upon any changes to the router reconfiguration that seemingly required a reboot (DHCP Reservation, Custom DNS Server, etc) the packet storm would ensue.
I've temporarily given up on the Ethernet backhaul and have started shopping for an entirely new networking solution to replace the Orbi.
In addition to the issue you are having that I was going to tackle today I am also having the Google Pixel reboots the Router when it connects issue. I am basically shopping for a different solution too and am curious if you are leaning towards anything specific?
I have my 2 thoughts narrowed down to the Linksys Velop or Google Wifi and using Ethernet Backhaul with them since it seems to be much more baked in and the Pixel while it may slow things down on the network doesn't reboot the router and take EVERYTHING off the network...
I have the same issue with ethernet backhaul if I plug both satelites in, I currently have just one and it's working fine. Though I can't verfiy anything since my device/sat count is zero so I'm only guessing it's working over ethernet.
I did some experiments by creating a seperate VLAN for the satelites and plugging another cable from the router into the switch on that VLAN. This worked as far as allowing Internet Access but it didn't allow WI-FI devices to talk to other hard wired systems on the same subnet but on a different VLAN, which tells me the satelite isn't backhauling all traffic to the router but dropping local traffic onto the switch.
I also thought spanning tree was an issue since pluggin the Ethernet cable in does create a loop so I disabled spanning tree on all my switches, also didn't help anything.
At this point I've also given up on the ethernet backhaul feature. There needs to be more info on how the environment needs to be configured, the KB as is is pretty useless, unless you can homerun your sats to the router, which I can't without pulling more cable that I don't want to, that's why I have switches..
tcommander I've moved on to Eero and it's been absolutely rock solid. A truly set and forget wifi setup and I'm getting excellent speeds in all corners of my house. Orbi is still a little faster in certain areas but the stability of Eero is a huge winner for me.
The only thing I miss is that Eero has no web GUI (you have a to use an app on your phone/tablet to manage the route). The other bummer is some of the advanced features available on Orbi (security logs, VPN hosting, etc) are not available on Eero.
But it appears that I'll be sticking with Eero. I'm happy with it. Setup was a breeze and I've literally had zero reboots or issues since getting up and running.
turnerm05 thanks for the feedback. I have my packing slip printed to return the Orbi and Linksys Velop on it's way. I looked at Eero closely. My home is wired for ethernet in every room with home runs to a central closet in my bonus room. Since i have that capability I ruled out Eero for the lack of ethernet ports and subsequently lacking wired backhaul. Linksys Velo and Google Wifi (Significant performance improvements with wired connections) actually were my top considerations with that in mind based on the review posted in this thread also along with the small net builder reviews and rankings. TP-Link caught my attention but once I researched the performance speeds of it I opted to stick with my initial choice of Linksys (Despite it's much higher cost).
And for the record wired backhaul is not the issue for me as discussed in this thread. I only have one satellite and when I did wired backhaul last night things seem to function properly (But I have no switch in my connection). My issue is that my Pixel on the network reboots the router and subsequently takes 100% of my network devices offline. I can't live with that (I could live with no wired backhaul). So back the Orbi goes. And to be fail the issue sounds like it is with the Pixel phones (or Android 8.0/8.1) but the way Netgear Orbi handles that issue is not ok compared to other solutions.
mgeorgy, any updates on this? I have dedicated Cat5e, but I need WiFi in my office, so I am considering buying the Orbi. I would want to do Ethernet Backhaul, but it sounds like there are serious defects still...
Add me to the list of folks needing ethernet backahul to work. I have two satellites and am having the same problem as the OP. Any attempt to use ethernet backhaul in any configuration shuts down the whole network. I am currently running Firmware Ver. 2.0.1.4, which the website and App indiacte are the latest. Of course, the website shows a version 2.1.2.18, but is listed as older, which doesn't make any sense. Can anyone clarify the latest firmware version and why the numbers seem out of order? Also, NETGEAR how about a response why ethernet backhaul in the configuration shown in the manula cause the network to shutdown?
Thanks.
The executive summary is that this is a known bug in the 2.0 firmware. I encountered it, too. It is reputedly fixed in 2.1, which I haven’t tried. But 2.1 has other issues and was removed from the auto-update path. 2.2 is currently in the works but not yet released.
if you need wired backhaul today, manually install 2.1 and live with whatever other defects that entails. I can vouch that a pre-release version of 2.2 works very well but is not quite 100% there. I don’t know when it will be released fully baked.
Waited a long time for NETGEAR to implement the Ethernet Backhaul. Finally bought Orbi this week.
Plugged in the satellite to a switch and my entire network immediately got killed. Had to reboot everything, including the modem.
What a frustration!
Should I wait for 2.2 or return it to the retailer?
You need to have firmware version 2.1.x.x to use wired backhaul. NG lists 2.0.x.x as current as we all wait for an official release of firmware 2.2. You can manually upgrade to 2.1.2.18. Do the satellites first (on WIFI not wired) then the router. Reboot, use a paperclip in teh reset button for 10 seconds on teh router and satellites then configure the system with the satellites on WIFI. Once you have the satellites connected via WIFI, power them down, plug the router into the switch and move the satellites to the wired location and plug them in. They will connect via WIFI then see that there is a wired cnnection and switch to that in a couple of minutes.
As I said there is a 2.2 firmware to be released soon (we hope!)
Same problem here. I seriously hope netgear will address this and fast. I didn't expect to pay so much for something as buggy as this. A response from netgear would be appreciated as it seems this is a pretty widespread issue and not just an isolated case.
What FW are you using?
What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem? Built in router here by chance?
How are the Satelliltes connected to the router? Wireless or wired back haul?
Any networks switches in the mix? If so, what is the Mfr and model# of these switche(s)?
spodger wrote:Same problem here. I seriously hope netgear will address this and fast. I didn't expect to pay so much for something as buggy as this. A response from netgear would be appreciated as it seems this is a pretty widespread issue and not just an isolated case.
Dunno what the manufacturer and model of the modem. ISP provided fibre modem connected directly to orbi 40 router yellow port. FW versions on all devices is V2.1.2.18. working perfectly on wireless backhaul but as soon as I attempt to cable satellites to router like this:
...it kills the entire network. If I reboot in sequence: router, and once router is stable then restart satellite 1 and then restart satellite 2 it kind of works but several connection dropouts and an unhappy wife so I revert to wireless backhaul.
No other switches or anything added as yet
Thanks for posting those links. This one is the most helpful:
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/V2-1-3-4-Bridging/m-p/1572173#M31735
As theorized, wireless and wired backhaul create a loop and flood the network with broadcast traffic. It's interesting that stp is disabled by default on the orbi router when this is the exact scenario where stp is needed.
Yes I've sent this in for review and tagged some mod's on this.
Ya so for now, try the work around on your managed switch or put a non managed switch in place. Hopefully NG will figure this one out. Been a bug for a while now.
BDubUT wrote:
Thanks for posting those links. This one is the most helpful:
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/V2-1-3-4-Bridging/m-p/1572173#M31735
As theorized, wireless and wired backhaul create a loop and flood the network with broadcast traffic. It's interesting that stp is disabled by default on the orbi router when this is the exact scenario where stp is needed.
I too had this problem with V2.1.4.16 and ethernet backhaul. I am running in AP mode behind a R7800 router.
The ethernet backhaul network must be dedicated to your ORBI devices. If you have a switch between your main unit and satellites, no non-ORBI devices can be connected to that switch. When ORBI devices see packets on the backhaul network segment that they didn't originate, those packets are forwarded to their other non-backhaul network interfaces. If your switch is connected to both the backhaul and non-backhaul networks, you've created a switching loop and the network grinds to a halt.
In my house, I have a long ethernet cable run from where the ORBI router is to where the Satellite is located. That cable is connected to ethernet switches on both ends where I connect other wired devices. When I connected my ORBIs to each switch with a single cable, I created two backhaul networks: one provided by the ORBIs and the other provided by the switches.
To fix, I just connected the ORBIs between the switches instead of "outside" them like so:
Router -> Switch -> master ORBI WAN port -> master ORBI LAN port -> Long dedicated ethernet run -> Satellite LAN port -> another Satellite LAN port -> Switch -> other ethernet devices
The important thing is that each ORBI unit has two ethernet cables connected. One for the backhaul network and the other for non-backhaul traffic.
My bandwidth tests with iperf3 show no performance hit between my two switches with the ORBIs in the middle. Wireshark confirmed a happy network.
I think the Netgear wiring diagram cited by the OP did not expect anything else to be connected to the switch between the main ORBI unit and the satellites.
I hope this helps...
Broadcast storms can be also seen if the DHCP service on the Orbi mis-takenly hands off 1 IP address to 2 different devcies. Seen this before as well. Users are encouraged to set up IP address reservations ON the main host router for each device, includeing satellites so that each devcies gets it's own IP address when turned on and should avoid IP address conflicts.
Direct connection of satellites to base Orbi is recommended however switches can be used between and or after the satellite. I use switches in between the main router and satellite for my system.
Be sure your using a non managed switch as well.
I discovered that my issues was not as assumed. My topology had switches between the Hub and Satellites which is not a problem until I had an issue with an ethernet connector that caused intermitten connection. When the satellite lost connection to the hub because of the cable fault, it would bring up the wireless connection back to the hub. So the intermittent connection would cause intermittent loops. I think a good solution to my problem would be to have the option to disable the wireless backhaul.
