The AX12 appears to have NO DFS channel support. This is according to Netgear's own product page (no DFS mention; whereas routers with DFS support mention that), and FCC documents (PY317300397). These FCC docs show AX12 support for only 9 out of 25 total 5 GHz channels. Comments?

Not uncommon new technology systems were initially coming with limited DFS/TPC capabilities. Nothing to do with the subject chosen. Vendors - and I'm talking about the SoC/radio chipset makers here, too - are commonly going over a second certification round for DFS support, it's often specific to the markets and regulatory areas as the requirements are not exactly the same.

The AX8 and AX12 are (to my knowledge) complete different hardware platforms. So at the time of filing with the FCC, obviously DFS wasn't ready. Now a good part of the RF security code isn't implemented by the router and AP vendors Much more it's code operating on the embedded radio devices, provided by the chip/radio maker. The control and influence on this code is limited.Instead of the AX8 has it blablah it would be much more interesting to see if the competitors implementing similar SoC and radios as in place on the AX12 are able to do any different.

schumaku wrote: myersw wrote: Based on my experience with Netgear Broadcom based routers I would not even consider the AX80. Now Qualcomm is a different story. Have had good luck with them in the past and some 3rd party dev might even make a build. This is not specific to Netgear - much more are Broadcom based devices coming with proprietary modules and APIs which are not available to open source developments. With Qualcomm there was some more luck... schumaku Yup. Have to have a license with Broadcom to get the proprietary stuff. Brainslayer of DD-WRT has a license and I tried his and Kong's builds on the r8000. Ran better then stock, but still had what appeared to be wireless driver issues, not surprising as had same or close to same modules as Netgear I would guess. This is the reason I keep saying the basic issues with the r8xxxx and r9000 cannot be fixed by Netgear unless they lean on Broadcom to get things right. Agree about Qualcomm. I ran Openwrt/lede and DD-WRT on the r7800 I still have. It is sitting on the shelf as a backup to the current gateway, (Unifi speak for router). It ran well with both, but like most others I just was not getting coverage that I needed as more and more wireless devices came into house. Wet plaster over metal lath walls doesn't help. Current setup with 2 APs works well. Like how the APs are PoE so only the Ethernet cable is needed. I sprang for a Unifi smart switch as well so I could get PoE without a dongle. With mesh enabled the wireless handoff is seamless. Can walk around house talking on iPhone using wireless and no hiccup of any kind when going to the next AP. Can view logs later and see where the iPhone rommed. Oh by the way, keep up the picture taking!!

Until DFS channels are added, any device today is D.O.A. and not worth the price. So buyer beware -- because Netgear has routers where DFS channels were never added later!

schumaku, I understand that in the past it was common for a second round for DFS certification, but for Netgear -- in 2018 -- can you provide any examples of when Netgear did that (filed initial FCC application without DFS, then made permissive change to add DFS later)? In 2018, all I can find for Netgear is FCC applications with DFS reports in the initial application... ...except for the RAX120 (AX12-Nighthawk AX12 12-Stream WI-FI 6 Router). It was filed without DFS certification -- that is a strong clue that something happened (like maybe it did not pass initial DFS tests?). The 'cousin' model (RAX80) FCC application was filed to the FCC with DFS reports.

The gig is up -- the new AX12 will be D.O.A.

36 Replies

schumaku
Guru
Jan 20, 2019
Not uncommon new technology systems were initially coming with limited DFS/TPC capabilities. Nothing to do with the subject chosen. Vendors - and I'm talking about the SoC/radio chipset makers here, too - are commonly going over a second certification round for DFS support, it's often specific to the markets and regulatory areas as the requirements are not exactly the same.
- duckware
  Prodigy
  Jan 21, 2019
  Until DFS channels are added, any device today is D.O.A. and not worth the price.
  
  So buyer beware -- because Netgear has routers where DFS channels were never added later!
- duckware
  Prodigy
  Jan 21, 2019
  schumaku, I understand that in the past it was common for a second round for DFS certification, but for Netgear -- in 2018 -- can you provide any examples of when Netgear did that (filed initial FCC application without DFS, then made permissive change to add DFS later)?
  
  In 2018, all I can find for Netgear is FCC applications with DFS reports in the initial application...
  
  ...except for the RAX120 (AX12-Nighthawk AX12 12-Stream WI-FI 6 Router). It was filed without DFS certification -- that is a strong clue that something happened (like maybe it did not pass initial DFS tests?).
  
  The 'cousin' model (RAX80) FCC application was filed to the FCC with DFS reports.
  - schumaku
    Guru
    Jan 21, 2019
    The AX8 and AX12 are (to my knowledge) complete different hardware platforms. So at the time of filing with the FCC, obviously DFS wasn't ready. Now a good part of the RF security code isn't implemented by the router and AP vendors Much more it's code operating on the embedded radio devices, provided by the chip/radio maker. The control and influence on this code is limited.
    
    Instead of the AX8 has it blablah it would be much more interesting to see if the competitors implementing similar SoC and radios as in place on the AX12 are able to do any different.
- duckware
  Prodigy
  Jan 31, 2019
  > a second certification round for DFS support
  
  But that is NOT what Netgear does. Netgear does not add full DFS support. For 80 Mhz channels... There are two non-DFS channels (42, 155) and four DFS channels (58, 106, 122, 138). When Netgear adds "DFS support" later, they only add three DFS channels (leaves out channel 138).
  
  Compared that to Netgear's direct competation (ASUS, using the same chip sets as Netgear, who do add all four DFS channels).
  
  For full DFS channel support in an AP/router, avoid Netgear.
  
  Did you know that Netgear released the R7800 with firmware that allowed channel 138 to be used. But Netgear never filed the proper paperwork with the FCC to use channel 138. And rather than re-filing the proper paperwork, Netgear in a firmware update removed channel 138 (http://kb.netgear.com/000059692). That sucks.
Navymac
Aspirant
Feb 18, 2019
Just set my RAX80 to DFS 56 today.

Firmware Version V1.0.1.40_1.0.22
- duckware
  Prodigy
  Feb 18, 2019
  RAX120, not RAX80.
  
  But since you have a RAX80, try setting to DFS 132/136/140/144 in 80 Mhz mode and report back.
  - Navymac
    Aspirant
    Feb 18, 2019
    It is a RAX80. I should have paid more attention to the thread
- duckware
  Prodigy
  Feb 18, 2019
  And while you are at it, please post some of the PHY speeds (see duckware.com/wifi for how) you are getting from your client devices to your wonderful new 6000 Mbps RAX80 router...
  - Navymac
    Aspirant
    Feb 18, 2019
    Calculated 1541
- ITotem
  Aspirant
  May 02, 2019
  Navymac wrote:
  
  Just set my RAX80 to DFS 56 today.
  
  Firmware Version V1.0.1.40_1.0.22
  
  According to support webpage for the new firmware update RAX120 Firmware Version 1.0.0.84, DFS is now supported.
  
  New Features and Enhancements:
  
  Supports DFS channels and the 160 MHz mode for the United States.
  
  Bug Fixes:
  
  Fixes the router web interface issues that might occur when setting the Multi-Gig Ethernet port as the WAN preference.
  
  Includes security fixes

Forum Discussion

The gig is up -- the new AX12 will be D.O.A.