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CM700 high US/UnCorrectables

CM700 high US/UnCorrectables

Hi all,

I have been experiencing internet issues for the last 3 years at my home.
I found that my US(Upstream) power (modem transmitting data to the ISP) was intermittently maxing out (I forget the max for the SB Modem, but it was ~50dBmV) resulting in T3 and eventually T4’s multiple times/day.

I went outside and connected modem directly to the drop outside and found levels were good(US was ~40-42dBmV) and DS was good (~0dBmV +/- 1dBmV)
Ultimately, my solution was to remove the 3-way splitter and the 2-way splitter that was installed and connect drop directly to modem upstairs.
This helped for a bit.. until it didn’t.
Initially I assumed the problem was my Surfboard Modem (after blaming Spectrum/TimeWarner for a year).
So I got the CM700 Modem and Nighthawk Router. Things were good for a few weeks.
Then T3/T4’s began due to high US signals.
SNR ~40dBmV for each Channel
US rising from ~45dBmV following reboot to >50dBmV resulting in reboot.

I went outside every day to re-seat the coax connection from the drop to my line upstairs. I replaced the mating connector at one point, same thing. I eventually found a GND wire tucked into the conduit below that was never connected to the GND terminal of the splitter I removed. Without a splitter, I didn’t have a good way to terminate the GND to my line.

- Yesterday -
I verified continuity between this GND conductor and the metal conduit of my electrical power meter (DMM 2WIRE DCR ~0.5 Ohms). I went ahead and stripped about 5 inches of insulation off and wrapped this best I could to make good contact with all 3 chassis/housing terminations(drop coax, mating coax, upstairs coax) and verified DCR of <1 Ohm from each to electrical meter GND.
Due to corrosion, rain, wind, etc. I go out about every week to remove the oxidized/corroded layer off this ground wire and re-wrap around coax. I plan to install the new enclosure I ordered and terminate GND correctly per code if Spectrum doesn’t do this for me.
I even tried grounding the shield of the coax connected to my modem upstairs by cutting a 3 prong AC adapter and wrapping the GND conductor around the shield terminal at my modem and plugging this into the wall upstairs. But later figured this could just cause more problems due to differential voltage between GND upstairs VS GND at drop and removed this.

- Current Day -
After the reboot yesterday, it reset my corrected/uncorrectables. So I took a screenshot of this to reference. Today (<24 hours following reboot) each DS channel has 100 - 4,000 UnCorrectables.

- Here is my Question -
I am thinking about installing the original splitter (still in good condition physically, assuming electrically as well) and seeing if the 3.5dB attenuation will help. I will likely terminate the other 3.5dB OUT with a 75 Ohm resistor or equivalent if I still see problems. But wanted a second opinion on the situation.
Due to reasonably good SNR, should I install a drop amp? After hours of googling around, I realize this is not the favorite solution of Cable Techs.
I do not have an oscilloscope to compare signal between Drop - upstairs coax, and would rather not crawl through my damp crawl space to inspect every inch of coax line and check for additional terminations/problems.
Is there anything else I can do to ensure the problem is not caused by faulty wiring in my home? I am a Technician where I work, but have little background/experience with RF in general but would love to learn more.
Specifically regarding: Testing for/causes/potential solutions of Ingress/Egress leakage, etc. Because I have a feeling noise is the Root Cause here.
As a final note, I have no problem at all purchasing a signal generator/injector and/or oscilloscope (price within reason) or other tools to Test/verify these issues myself.

Any help/input/ideas are greatly appreciated.
If more information is needed, don’t hesitate to ask. I’ll try to upload any logs I can to assist.
Thank you,
- Robert
Model: CM700|High Speed Cable Modem—DOCSIS 3.0
Message 1 of 14

Accepted Solutions
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: CM700 high US/UnCorrectables

Have the ISP check the signal and line quality UP to the modem. 
Be sure there are not coax cable line splitters in the between the modem and ISP service box. 
Be sure your using good quality RG6 coax cable up to the modem. 

 

FYI:

http://www.badmodems.com

View solution in original post

Message 2 of 14

All Replies
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: CM700 high US/UnCorrectables

Have the ISP check the signal and line quality UP to the modem. 
Be sure there are not coax cable line splitters in the between the modem and ISP service box. 
Be sure your using good quality RG6 coax cable up to the modem. 

 

FYI:

http://www.badmodems.com

Message 2 of 14

Re: CM700 high US/UnCorrectables


@FURRYe38 wrote:

Have the ISP check the signal and line quality UP to the modem. 
Be sure there are not coax cable line splitters in the between the modem and ISP service box. 
Be sure your using good quality RG6 coax cable up to the modem. 

 

FYI:

http://www.badmodems.com


Oh god no. Why am I just now learning about this???
I went ahead and installed/ran some tests after reading through badmodems.com. 
I installed PingPlotter and, well, I'll post some snips of my results and you tell me.

However, from what I've read regarding the issue..
(Which sounds like the Puma 6 chipset uProcessor essentially halting every x clock cycles)
It certainly appears that I'm experiencing that issue.

The modem I had before this CM700 was a an Arris SB6141. I found this out by a quick google search for T3 T4 timeouts and found my post from 2018: https://forums.timewarnercable.com/t5/Connectivity/T3-T4-Timeouts/td-p/151726
What I've been reading suggests that the SB6141 may have similar issues as it has the Puma5, but I'm also seeing people argue against this.

I am currently researching modems so I can replace this CM700, any recommendations?
If the SB6141 does truly have similar issues, that would make a lot of sense, since I've been dealing with this for the last 3 years and the problem has persisted through both SB6141 and CM700 modems.

Anyway, if you are familiar with the Puma6 chipset issue, definitely let me know if my PingPlotter results point to that problem. 
I ran it a few times at differing intervals. 1mS/1000Hz resolution surely makes some kind of problem stand out.

See attachment for 1mS/1Min ping results. I'll try to include the other tests, but it looks like 1 attachment/post.
Thanks for your help!

Message 3 of 14

Re: CM700 high US/UnCorrectables

PingPlotter 1mS/5Min (Timeline seemed to bug out and not include full timespan, but oh well)

Message 4 of 14

Re: CM700 high US/UnCorrectables

PingPlotter 5mS/5Min

Message 5 of 14
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: CM700 high US/UnCorrectables

You review can post about this over on the DSLReports forum about this if you want too: Xymox is the one who to discuss this with.

https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r31122204-SB6190-Puma6-TCP-UDP-Network-Latency-Issue-Discussion

 

I recommend any Broadcom based modem:

NGs CM1000, 1100 or 1200 are first choices. 
Arris SB61823 or 8200 

Motorola MB 74##  and 8600 series modems

Message 6 of 14

Re: CM700 high US/UnCorrectables

Great, thanks.

That’s what I figured! I was tempted to buy the new SB8200 due to the Spectrum Analyzer feature, but wanted to avoid Arris only because of the bad memories I had with our old Arris Surfboard that had the Puma5.

I went with the CM1000 since our area won’t be getting fiber for a while and I’m sure I won’t NEED >1Gb/S anytime soon.
I will mark your first reply as the solution when I set up the CM1000 we ordered and verify the problem is no longer visible in PingPlotter. It should be delivered Wednesday. Thanks for your help, Furry.
Message 7 of 14
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: CM700 high US/UnCorrectables

Ya I remember the older days of Arris. I was highly disappointed they bought Motorolas Modem division back in 2011/12 time frame. Though I did try there 6183 and it's solid. They have improved since then. 

 

The CM1000 should work well...Let us know. 

 

 

Message 8 of 14

Re: CM700 high US/UnCorrectables

Awesome, so after setting up our new CM1000 (v2) I ran the 1mS/1Min test again via PingPlotter to www.google.com. 
I am no longer seeing those 200mS spikes; jitter is ~10-20mS and remains this way. 

However, after setting it up on my lunch break and returning home to check out the log; I noticed each channel had ~>100 UnCorrectables and 100-500 Correctables. 
My US Power levels for each of the 4 channels was 50dBmV (I'd be much more comfortable with ~45dBmV.

Attached is my Modem Log following reboot ~30min ago. 
(I had to modify some of the HTML/delete elements/reduce fontSize in order to get DS and US to be displayed in one snapshot.)
Not sure why this new FW has such a buggy GUI for displaying Cable Connection Stats..

Anyway, I'll play around with this new modem a bit and maybe inspect my coax for any ingress/coupled noise sources if I have T3's down the road. Thanks for your help again, @FURRYe38 

Model: CM1000|Ultra-High Speed Cable Modem—DOCSIS® 3.1 Ready
Message 9 of 14
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: CM700 high US/UnCorrectables

OK, I would have the ISP run the line check at aswell. Have them review the logs as well. 

Hope fully you or they can find where the main issue is. 

Message 10 of 14

Re: CM700 high US/UnCorrectables

Hey FURRYe38,

I’m having a hard time deciding between:
attenuator/splitter or NO attenuator/splitter.
Could I get your opinion? Opinions from others are welcome as well.
The ‘attenuator’ is just a 2-way splitter (-3.5dBm) with only 1 used Output, I left the unused terminal OPEN. If you feel I should connect a 50/70 Ohm resistor between signal conductor and GND rather than leave it floating, let me know. This attenuator is connected at the drop.

Here are some details/stats.

NO ATTENUATION:
_________________________
Downstream:
My DS PWR Level for Channels 1-24 range from +2.4 to +3.5 dBmV.
SNR/MER Range = 41.4 to 43.1dB
The following stats are from 50 Hours of UpTime with ~3.85E9 UnErrored CodeWords/Channel:
Correctables range from 500-2500(as frequency increases, Correctables INCREASE)
UnCorrectables range from 400-600(as frequency increases, UnCorrectables DECREASE)

Upstream:
PWR Levels:
46.8 dBmV
47.0 dBmV
48.0 dBmV
48.0 dBmV
_____________________________________
WITH ATTENUATION:
Downstream:
My DS PWR Level for Channels 1-24 range from -0.8dBmV to +0.0dBmV.
SNR/MER Range = 42.0 to 43.5dBmV.
The following stats are from 18 Hours of UpTime with ~2.87E9 UnErrored CodeWords/Channel:
Correctables range from 13-378 (as frequency increases, Correctables INCREASE)
UnCorrectables range from 62-98 (seemingly no correlation with deltaFrequency)

Upstream:
PWR Levels:
49.8 dBmV
50.3 dBmV
51.3dBmV
51.3 dBmV

I would copy/paste my logs, but all I have are screenshots of the old log, split between 2 separate images.

I noticed that WITHOUT the -3.5dB drop, my DS levels were all ~ +3.5dBmV, so a 3.5dB drop here would be perfect to hit unity. But as I expected, installing the splitter brought my (Already borderline HIGH) US levels From ~47.5dBmV up to ~ 50dBmV. I vaguely remember reading specs for the CM1000 indicating it was capable of ~54dBmV. This may be standard for all Modems, but still.


So based on the trade-offs described above.. would I be better off WITH or WITHOUT the splitter? Thoughts? Concerns?

I’ve noticed no differences in Download/Upload speeds via Speedtest.net.
However, I just noticed that PingPlotter is currently showing some problems. Like an elevated Latency Floor referenced to when I first set up my CM1000. The Jitter directly following CM1000 setup was <5mS. Currently it is regularly jumping to 30mS, averaging around 10-15mS. I’m going to remove the splitter and try again right now to remove any possible changes caused by temperature/time/neighbor loading, etc. Still, thoughts?
Message 11 of 14

Re: CM700 high US/UnCorrectables

Disregard the PingPlotter stats I mentioned above.... I’m an idiot lol. I connected my laptop to the Ethernet cable connected to the TV. I left the WiFi Enabled, so those stats were via WiFi connection..
Message 12 of 14

Re: CM700 high US/UnCorrectables

Here’s an update:
I noticed that my Correctables/unCorrectables were still reaching >1,000 / channel within 24-48 hours following CM1000 install.
My US Power levels were typically ~47dBmV/channel and were periodically maxing out and causing T3/T4’s just like before.

Adding a splitter to attenuate any potential noise at the drop did not change my SNR/MER levels much, they remained 39-43.
So I bought a female-female adapter that had terminals for proper grounding. So I connected the drop directly to my coax line upstairs where my modem is connected (just like before) but this time with proper grounding. - NO CHANGE -

I researched a bit and ended up buying a 100ft Quad Shielded Coax from Amazon so I could run this temporarily from the drop to my modem upstairs. If this worked well and problems went away, I would know that my coax in the walls is the Root Cause.

Here’s the cable I bought:
100ft Weather Seal Quad Shield Outdoor 3GHZ RG-6 Coaxial Cable 75 Ohm (Satellite TV or Broadband Internet) Anti Corrosion Brass Connector RG6 Fittings Assembled in USA by PHAT Satellite INTL
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GBX8HIG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_5HENEbFNQ5AMD


Unfortunately, ~113 hours of UpTime, and each Channel has >2,000 correctables/unCorrectables just like before.
Adding the splitter in series with this new cable causes the US to increase to max and cause T3/T4’s as well.

So this means that the Root Cause must be somewhere on Spectrum’s end. Whether it be someone in the neighborhood introducing noise, an issue at the node or something else.
I feel better having ruled out issues on my end, and I don’t expect this to be resolved in a timely manner, as is no surprise I’m sure based on TimeWarner/Spectrum’s history with resolving these types of issues.

Just for fun/reference I will include a capture of my log today. I’ve been taking a screenshot of my log/cable connection every day, so I have the daily history too which may come in handy.

Let me know if you notice anything I missed!
Thanks.
Message 13 of 14
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: CM700 high US/UnCorrectables

I would have a tech come onsite and you can show him and he can test while your there. I would ask him to put on a different modem to test as well. 

Message 14 of 14
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