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Tutor

XR500 - VLAN tagging making wifi devices unable to communicate?

Hi,

 

I'm in Australia and just joined NBN FTTC, which required a new router that supported VLAN tagging - got XR500. My ISP iinet requires VLAN tagging for their service, via VLAN ID 2. Internet kicked in and everything appears fine on day 1; all devices can access internet.

 

A few days later I realise I cannot connect my nvidia SHIELD to my NAS (Synology DS1819+). They used to connect fine with my old Netgear DGND3700. NAS is wired whilst SHIELD is wifi because I don't have ethernet cabling in my lounge room.

 

I assumed it was an issue with the SHIELD and fiddled with a million settings on both the NAS and SHIELD, before a second wifi device tipped me off today. A second wifi device (Surface Go tablet) also cannot access the NAS.

 

Googling this issue raised a whole number of topics about VLAN tagging issues impacting the network. If I turn VLAN tagging off, my internet cuts out, but when it is enabled, it appears my wifi-connected devices can't talk to each other (can see each other but not negotiate).

 

By default, XR500 has VLAN tag group "internet" for all wired ports and all wireless ports. If I attempt to create another VLAN tag group, it permits LAN ports 1-4 or either/both wifi bands, but not the WAN port where the internet comes in.

 

This is super annoying because one of the primary functions of my network is to provide NAS service to all household devices and most of them are on wifi.

 

Any suggestions how I might change the configuration to keep my VLAN tagging for internet purposes, but allow the wifi devices to talk to the NAS?

 

Thank you

Model: XR500|Nighthawk Pro Gaming Router
Message 1 of 58
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Tutor

Re: XR500 - VLAN tagging making wifi devices unable to communicate?

Oh, to add, I believe I can purchase a separate switch to handle the VLAN tagging and potentially alleviate the issues within my XR500 router, but I don't want to have to purchase more hardware, considering the XR500 is new enough and VLAN tagging isn't so uncommon for fibre ISPs.

 

Message 2 of 58
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NetDuma Partner

Re: XR500 - VLAN tagging making wifi devices unable to communicate?

If you edit the standard rule and change the ID to 2 does that work at all? Are you able as a test to wire the shield to the router and see if it can connect to the NAS then just to rule out other issues.
Message 3 of 58
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Tutor

Re: XR500 - VLAN tagging making wifi devices unable to communicate?

Thanks for replying.

 

Yes I edited the standard rule, i.e. only have 1 rule in place.

 

I am not able to test the shield just now via ethernet as it's in another room and I need a TV to view the output - don't have any cables long enough. I could potentially try tomorrow by bringing the shield to my study and getting the output to my monitor.

 

However I was able to replicate the issue on a separate device - my laptop. If I plug the laptop into ethernet it can access the NAS. If I remove the laptop from ethernet and enable wifi, it cannot access the NAS.

 

So rather than pull out all the SHIELD cables and fuss about, I seriously suspect it's an issue with all wifi devices, not specific to the SHIELD, as illustrated with the laptop test.

 

Message 4 of 58
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NetDuma Partner

Re: XR500 - VLAN tagging making wifi devices unable to communicate?

Thanks for that, that's what I wanted to know. For WiFi are you using Smart Connect? If so disable that and connect to the WiFi networks individually. If that doesn't work there are some options in Advanced WiFi settings - beamforming, MU-MIMO & HT160, I'd recommend disabling the later and playing around with those options to see if you can get it to work. Some devices don't like these options. If all else fails, make a guest wifi network and connect the affected devices to it and see if it works that way.
Message 5 of 58
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Tutor

Re: XR500 - VLAN tagging making wifi devices unable to communicate?

I tried the settings changes with no effect.

 

I was using SmartConnect and turned it off, reconnected all devices manually to 2.4 or 5Ghz. HT160 was already disabled, so Ialso turned off beamforming and MU-MIMO. Actually the last two off made things worse, the wifi devices struggled to connect.

 

What is weird is that I can see the NAS and all other items on the network from wifi computers, I just cannot access the NAS. I.e. if I click on the NAS in Windows it stalls for good minute and then replies not available. I think I read somewhere that an issue with VLAN tagging can be that it makes some connections so slow that they appear to be unavailable, which is my experience - I can see the NAS but cannot connect outside of wired.

 

Also with respect, 100% of wifi devices cannot access the NAS, so I am guessing that it's not a single setting that "some devices don't like" - unless 100% of them don't like it.

 

I'm yet to try the guest wifi, will do that next.

Message 6 of 58
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NetDuma Partner

Re: XR500 - VLAN tagging making wifi devices unable to communicate?

Try the guest WiFi but if you believe VLAN to be an issue do you have another router you could put between the modem and XR router to handle VLAN at all and then try through the XR to see if it works correctly?
Message 7 of 58
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Tutor

Re: XR500 - VLAN tagging making wifi devices unable to communicate?

I tried Guest Wifi and it displays exactly the same behaviour as the normal wifi service - no access possible with a wired NAS.

 

I did another expermient just now - disabling VLAN and trying to access the NAS via wifi. Doesn't work. Internet is off, obviously, but the same behaviour exists where I cannot access the wired NAS devices (there are 2 of them, different models, both fail) via wifi.

 

It am almost certain it's the router causing the issue via the way it manages traffic between wifi and wired?

Message 8 of 58
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NetDuma Partner

Re: XR500 - VLAN tagging making wifi devices unable to communicate?

Yes it does sound like the router itself is causing these issues. This might be something we have to ask the developers about, and make sure they're aware of the issue so that it can be fixed in the next update.

Message 9 of 58
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Tutor

Re: XR500 - VLAN tagging making wifi devices unable to communicate?

Thanks. Have to be frank that wifi devices being able to communicate consistently with wired devices, all on the same network, I consider to be pretty fundamental to router operations. This issue is frustrating because I don't have a weird setup and can't figure anything specific to my devices to have all the wifi items locked out, except that the router is responsible for some unknown reason.

Message 10 of 58
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NetDuma Partner

Re: XR500 - VLAN tagging making wifi devices unable to communicate?

Very sorry for the inconvenience, I'll ask Alex to see if he's made any progress with the developers.
Message 11 of 58
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Tutor

Re: XR500 - VLAN tagging making wifi devices unable to communicate?

Hi any progress?

 

I tried another round of troubleshooting this evening. Previously I had disabled VLAN tagging with no change to wireless access, however tonight I did the same and was able to get a wifi laptop to connect to the NAS, albeit at quite a slow rate - too slow to stream a video. But it did connect and slowly browse folders. Of course in my case, disabling VLAN tagging kills the internet connection that requires this.

 

I was also able to use that same laptop to connect to a second wired laptop via wifi and it worked perfectly.


So the issue appears limited to accessing a wired NAS via wifi, not other Windows computers. I would have highly suspected the NAS itself, however I have 2 NAS devices (Synology and WD) and both display the same behaviour, i.e. I cannot connect to either via wifi, but can connect perfectly via wireless.

 

Ultimately a prime function of my router is wireless streaming to my loungeroom, as the room is not cabled. I have not yet tested xbox streaming from a wired computer to wifi xbox, as I don't use the function often (it worked fine on my old DGND3700).

 

I logged a Netgear ticket but you have to ring them up within 24h etc. (will do that tomorrow) - I don't have high hopes of telephone support. I am leaning towards returning the router to Amazon (need to do this by 31/Jan/20) because it's just too much trouble to fiddle with all the little switches trying to get some basic functionality going.

 

Thanks

Message 12 of 58
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Tutor

Re: XR500 - VLAN tagging making wifi devices unable to communicate?

Also to confirm I can ping both NAS successfully.

 

Message 13 of 58
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NetDuma Partner

Re: XR500 - VLAN tagging making wifi devices unable to communicate?

Thanks a lot for the extra information, I haven't heard anything but I have chased Alex. It may be worth getting it replaced to see if it is a hardware issue or software issue.
Message 14 of 58
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Tutor

Re: XR500 - VLAN tagging making wifi devices unable to communicate?

So I rang Netgear Support - seems like a pointless endeavour, as I feared.

 

The lady on the phone did some research whilst I held the line, her ultimate feedback was that I needed to contact Synology to get instructions of how to "map my NAS to the network". I asked her several times in several different ways what this actually meant, but she basically repeated herself, that Netgear cannot provide instructions about third-party products like Synology NAS.

 

I tried to stress that:

(a) it's both NAS devices, and I have had issue with other wifi devices like printer as well (and, I suspect my Bose Soundbar, which I have struggled to connect on/off since connecting to the new router)

(b) as far as I know, mapping is a function of Windows devices to create a permanent link to an external resource, and not something I'm familiar with for a device actually making it's connection TO the network

 

Because she repeated herself in response to all revisions of my commentary, I gave up. I did some research online and dug around in the Synology settings, but I'd already spent hours on NAS research the first time around, so I didn't find anything I hadn't already tried.

 

Probably not the lady's fault, I have serious doubts about her network expertise and almost certainly being managed from a call centre in Philippines.

 

The main issue for me is, that apart from the device not working quite right, Netgear don't make any attempt to acknowledge your issue beyond the telephone. Rather than have a real expert do some research and then email or contact you, you have to sit on the phone with networking nuffies as soon as you log the ticket, otherwise they close your ticket down. I've seen more than enough commentary during my research that a significant number of folks have an issue similar to mine, regarding wifi communication and VLAN tagging, but I have no confidence that Netgear are hearing or even listening. 

 

Netduma folks appear the only people willing to comment, offer suggestions or even offer sympathy in a real human fashion. And likely not Netduma's fault for router operations.

 

I am almost certain that a firmware update would fix this, as the router probably is not malfunctioning, given that other folks can repeat the issue. And VLAN tagging for internet services is reasonably common (though not ubiquitous), so it's not like this issue applies only to my specific circumstances. But I'm not willing to buy new devices or change ISP on the hunch it's one setting or other.

 

Rant over.

Message 15 of 58
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NetDuma Partner

Re: XR500 - VLAN tagging making wifi devices unable to communicate?

Sorry to hear about your experience. We (Netduma) know there are improvements we need to make around VLAN and how it interacts with some of our features. One thing we haven't tried actually which could help is to disable QoS completely in the Anti-Bufferbloat options menu as that can sometimes interfere with network activity like this.
Message 16 of 58
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Re: XR500 - VLAN tagging making wifi devices unable to communicate?

I am having very similar issues. I have to use VLAN for the internet, just as described above. And just as above, I can see other devices on LAN when I connect via Wi-Fi, but it seems I'm not able to use them. Printing doesn't work, and web config pages for various devices (NAS, printer) will start to load and never finish loading.

 

I haven't had any luck turning off the suggested settings either (QoS, bufferbloat, beamforming, MU-MIMO etc).

 

I'll continue experimenting and see what happens, but this does seem to be a router issue. (also FYI this only started happening when we replaced our old router with the new XR500)

Model: XR500|Nighthawk Pro Gaming Router
Message 17 of 58
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NetDuma Partner

Re: XR500 - VLAN tagging making wifi devices unable to communicate?

If your printer is wired in for example can you access it from another wired device? Sometimes devices are very picky like that in that they won't allow connections from device connected via other methods for some reason.
Message 18 of 58
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Re: XR500 - VLAN tagging making wifi devices unable to communicate?

Yes the printer is wired, and printing works fine via LAN.

 

I don't think this behaviour is at all normal, and it does seem as though the router is the issue. Everything works fine when using other routers.

 

It's not just printer either - it's web traffic as well (eg to NAS config pages). Same as with the original poster.

Message 19 of 58
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NetDuma Partner

Re: XR500 - VLAN tagging making wifi devices unable to communicate?

Okay thanks for the information, I've seen that same behaviour on my own ISP router so wanted to see if that was a way around it for now. We will be making improvements regarding VLAN and features so hopefully in the next update this won't be an issue.
Message 20 of 58
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Re: XR500 - VLAN tagging making wifi devices unable to communicate?

Okay thank you, looking forward to the update.

Message 21 of 58
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Tutor

Re: XR500 - VLAN tagging making wifi devices unable to communicate?

FYI I ended up returning my XR500 for a refund from Amazon. The replacement router works fine, issues non existent.
Message 22 of 58
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Re: XR500 - VLAN tagging making wifi devices unable to communicate?

Thanks for the info jirskyr. I might do the same - seems like a pretty fundamental flaw.

What did you replace your XR500 with?

Message 23 of 58
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NetDuma Partner

Re: XR500 - VLAN tagging making wifi devices unable to communicate?

Sorry to hear that, we do hope you'll consider us again in the future perhaps when you see what DumaOS 3.0 has to offer and that there is confirmation the issues you've been having are resolved.
Message 24 of 58
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Aspirant

Re: XR500 - VLAN tagging making wifi devices unable to communicate?

Hi All, 

 

I'm having the exact same isse, although I'm not sure if it is VLAN related or not, as disabling the VLAN tagging, still doesn't work.

 

Also whay I've also noticed, that if I connect the NAS to the extender supplied together with my XR500 (EX7700 from XRM570) I am able to access the NAS only from Wireless devices, but unable from wired.

 

There is clearly a communication issue between devices connected by different methode ( Wifi with Wireless)

 

When do you expecting the new frimware to come out? 

As if I cant get this issue solved in less then a week from now, I'm retuning the router to amazon.

 

Thank you, 

Best regards,

Arpad

Message 25 of 58
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