R7000 - ISP Says My Router broadcast is Interfering w/ ISP's Incoming Wirless Signal

[Deb10]

 I have wireless ISP service.  There is a 'radio' receiver on the roof which receives the signal from a repeater in the neighborhood - it is line of sight transmission.  From there it is wired into the house to a central hub where I have the R7000 which broadcasts to the house and also to a variety of wired devices.

My ISP says my router's wireless signal is being detected on the roof and is interfering with the ISP's incoming signal and therefore disconnecting us from the internet intermitantly.   They say it is NOT a channel issue.  They are running on Channel 8 and my router is on Channel 1.  This particular router has beamforming technology.  I have implicit beamforming enabled.  They used to say that "n-Band" routers interferred with their signal, but with AC technology, that would not seem to be the problem.  

I'm wondering if you have any suggestions for other things for me to check to prevent the router signal from reaching up to the roof - besides a 'tin-foil hat' which we have already tried!  Maybe we need a bigger hat? OR - other suggestions!??!!  Thanks in advacne for any help you can provide.  Deb

[wyliesdiesels · Accepted solution]

Deb- i work for a WISP and can help u out.

Are u in the US? If so heres some info for u.

Most WISPs use the same frequencies(2.4ghz and 5ghz) that wifi uses. This is because theyre free unlicensed freq. available for everyone to use. if a WISP used licensed freq, then the service would cost a whole lot more due to the FCC liscense costs.

When they say they can "see" your wifi signal, this means that your CPE(customer premise equipment) radio on the roof( which is acting as a station to the WISPs access point on their tower or building or wherever its located) is seeing the wireless signal that your router is broadcasting. A CPE is functioning similarly to what a phone or wireless computer does- it sees all the wifi signals that are available. This is normal.

The first thing u need to do is find out which freq band the WISP uses. If 2.4Ghz and all equipment u have operates on 5ghz(only talking about wireless devices here not wired), then u could turn off the 2.4ghz wifi on the Nighthawk.

However, if youre like most people, u will have a mix of devices where some have older 2.4ghz only radios.

In that case, the best thing u can do is make sure youre on a different channel than what the WISP is using. For 2.4ghz, theres only 3 non overlapping channels- 1,6,11. This means, if youre on chnl 1 and the wisp CPE is on 3, then there will be interference between the WISP CPE and your router.

If the WISP CPE instead uses 5Ghz freq then its a little more complicated due to MIMO and upper and lower channeling.

Once u separate the 2 devices as far as channels go, moving your router farther away from the CPE should help.

As far as IP address allocation goes, that has nothing to do with wireless signal interference between the 2 radios. IP address conflicts is a whole nother issue. If youre having that issue as well, it can easily be fixed. But lets get the wireless interference issue fixed first.

Hopefully this helps. If u have any questions, feel free to ask away!

[netwrks]

This where Tx control would come in handy..

It's 2.4ghz that is interfering with the carrier. If you don't need 2.4ghz on the router, then turn off the radio.

[BryanSD]

I always find it strange that Wireless ISP (WISP) would pick a frequency range to transmit your WAN services as the same used for a Wi-Fi LAN.   How do they know it's you and not one of your neighbors that interfering with your signal?

If you're on Channel 1 and they're on 8 have you verifired that this isn't a channel width and overlap issue? It's possible your WISP's equipment has also a very wide channel width it receives. Just for troubleshooting purposes, have you tried with the Channel 1 to set your Channel mode to the lowest "up to" setting to the lowest value ("Up to 54 Mbps" )? Also, make sure you have enabled 20/40 MHz Coexistence (Advanced Setup > Wireless Settings > Enable 20/40 MHz Coexistence).

[Deb10]

Thanks for that suggestion.  I'm not sure if I 'need' 2.4  . . . I could just turn it off & see if something is not getting a signal.  I do have 9 devices connected. 2 printers, a hub, 2 phones, 2 computers, a Sonos device, and Direct TV uses it too.  Some of these connections though are wired, not wireless. I'll try that - thanks!  Deb

[Deb10]

Thanks also for these suggestions . . .

re the frequency the ISP uses, they say they are mandated by the FCC to use that frequency, so it makes no sense to me why general market routers and what gets assigned to an ISP should conflict - government at its usual performance level. 

I will go up on the roof & recheck the overlap with my wifi analyizer (phone model).  Inside the house I do not see the ISP wireless signal, nor do I see any of my neighbor's, but I believe I should be able to see it and any other neighborhood routers that are strong on the roof.  We are rural (hence the need for WISP) so the houses are not close together & neighbors' router signal interference is usually not a problem for us.

Hmm - I don't know what those 'Up To' settings are all about - but I will check it out! Same for the 20/40 MHz settings - no idea what they are - but I will check.

My brother was asking me if the ISP modem also assigns IP Addresses - apparently some do - and if it is trying to assign them and my router is also trying to assign them, there could be a conflict.  I will check into that issue tomorrow too.

Thanks all so much for the hlep!  Really appreciate it!   I'll let you know if any of these things work.  Deb 

[Deb10]

Also - the reason they know its my signal is because they see the SSID address of my broadcast and can see it while they are standing next to thier receiver on my roof.  I'm not sure 'seeing it' means that it is 'interferring' with thier signal - but I suspect they might tell me that to 'encourage me to go away' - thier service is not exemplary and we are a captive customer here - no other ISP options in this rural location. (Although fiberoptic cable is supposed to be coming at the end of the year! Yahoo!) Thanks again!  Deb 

[wyliesdiesels · Accepted solution]

Deb- i work for a WISP and can help u out.

Are u in the US? If so heres some info for u.

Most WISPs use the same frequencies(2.4ghz and 5ghz) that wifi uses. This is because theyre free unlicensed freq. available for everyone to use. if a WISP used licensed freq, then the service would cost a whole lot more due to the FCC liscense costs.

When they say they can "see" your wifi signal, this means that your CPE(customer premise equipment) radio on the roof( which is acting as a station to the WISPs access point on their tower or building or wherever its located) is seeing the wireless signal that your router is broadcasting. A CPE is functioning similarly to what a phone or wireless computer does- it sees all the wifi signals that are available. This is normal.

The first thing u need to do is find out which freq band the WISP uses. If 2.4Ghz and all equipment u have operates on 5ghz(only talking about wireless devices here not wired), then u could turn off the 2.4ghz wifi on the Nighthawk.

However, if youre like most people, u will have a mix of devices where some have older 2.4ghz only radios.

In that case, the best thing u can do is make sure youre on a different channel than what the WISP is using. For 2.4ghz, theres only 3 non overlapping channels- 1,6,11. This means, if youre on chnl 1 and the wisp CPE is on 3, then there will be interference between the WISP CPE and your router.

If the WISP CPE instead uses 5Ghz freq then its a little more complicated due to MIMO and upper and lower channeling.

Once u separate the 2 devices as far as channels go, moving your router farther away from the CPE should help.

As far as IP address allocation goes, that has nothing to do with wireless signal interference between the 2 radios. IP address conflicts is a whole nother issue. If youre having that issue as well, it can easily be fixed. But lets get the wireless interference issue fixed first.

Hopefully this helps. If u have any questions, feel free to ask away!

[Deb10]

Hi Wyliesdiesels and Others!

Thanks for the posts!!!!!  You, like another poster, pointed to the 2.4ghz issue.  I got on the phone with my WIPS provider yesterday and while on the phone and as he was 'logged in' to my modem (I have no idea how they do this stuff), I turned off the 2.4ghz broadcast.  He said something like 'the pins or packets delivery went way up when I did that"  (aka more thruput I assume), so that would be evidence of the 2.4ghz interferring with thier signal!  Yahoo!!! I have not found anything (yet) that does not work so far using just the 5ghz broadcast.

He did say that on the 5ghz broadcast, to select the lowest # of Mbps in the mode which is 289 (other choices were 600 & 1300) and that would 'increase' the performance - go figure - not intuitive! The other poster also mentioned this which is why we chatted about it. 

He also confirmed that their modem does not allocate IP Addresses.  

BUT, low and behold . . . as we were on the phone he abruptly said . . . "Did you just unplug the modem?"  and I hadn't - he said the radio receiver just lost power. - My reply "Welcome to my world!!!"

IT does that all the time all day long.  So we are thinking that the wire from the roof to the transformer/modem box has some kind of fault.  We stood next to that modem box today 'as it cut out' and the light on it did not go out, so that would point to something between it and the roof receiver.  He will come out & we will replace the wiring on Friday (they are not allowed to go into the attic - so wish us luck).  Its been gettiing worse and worse . . . so after we replace that, since the radio itself and the little dish collector were both replaced there is not much left.  I also replaced the surge protectors . . . only thing left is little greem men!

We did find a strange box in our attic with 2 antena  and flashing lights . . . and had no idea what it was.  So I crawled up there & started following the wire . . . figured out it was the transmitter for the wireless security system.   Most of our security system is wired, but we had forgotten a couple of doors are wireless - ones they forgot to wire when the house was built, so they added on wireless later . . . so its not the FBI or NSA afterall.  Whew!

Ok - I will mark this one solved - hopefully I can mark 2 of the posts as solutions!!  Thank you all for this - it was really helpful and solved a problem we've been having for soooooo long!  Cheers!  Deb

[Deb10]

Bryan!

Thank you also as your answer was right on and I also got the other similar answer just before I called my WISP.  Axeing the 2.4ghz broadcast solved (most of the) problem - see othger post! And I did select the lowest lowest value ("Up to 54 Mbps" ) although my chioces for the 5ghz broadcast were much higher : 289, 600 & 1300.  My WISP said that would help!

I never found a 20/40 MHz Coexistence setting.  I'm wondering if that applies to 5ghz? or only 2.4ghz? 

Also when I was on the roof, I saw that the WISP signal was VERY WIDE - covered from 1 to about 6 or 7 but was hugly weak -90 to -100 & sometimes non-existant.  Funny, other techs of thiers told me it broadcase on Channel 4 but this tech would not tell me the channel - go figure.  But, now that I'm on the 5ghz broadcast for my router, apparently the channel does not matter?! NO mention of selecting a better channel on 5ghz.  Also very odd - there are 2 towers broaddacting on our rural neighborhood and I was seeing the signal of the one I am not connected to and could not even see the one he said was stronger for our location and that I am connected to - go figure on that too!  

Problem solved for now once we get the wiring issue fixed.  Thanks again for your help!  Deb