No Ability to Daisy Chain AX6000 (two satellites)

[Rogelio1]

Just bought the 3 pack (1 AX6000 router and 2 satellites), and as far as I can tell there is NO ability to enable daisy chain topology.

Here is the old (original orbi) settings for adanced wireless WITH daisy chain option.

Here is the new (AX6000 orbi) settings for advanced wireless with NO daisy chain option.

The sats are in a completely linear setup -- router is in living room, sat 1 is in office (exactly in the middle of router and sat 2), and sat 2 is in the shed. I literally just swapped in the AX6000 units for where each router and sat was, and the orbi app shows the two sats as being connected to the router (dotted line to them) as opposed to before where it was router --- sat 1 --- sat 2.

Can anbody else confirm that there is NO daisy chain topology for the AX6000 series.  I'm confounded, as I'm getting worse speeds by sat 2 because it's traversing 2x the distance now to the router rather than connecting to sat 1.

EDIT:  Furthermore, I can see in the old original orbi setup sat 2 was connected to sat 1 via 5Ghz (daisy chain) whereas now sat 2 is connecting at 2.4Ghz (again 2x the distance) to router.  The only explanation I have for this is that there is no daisy chain option, as logic would dictate that sat 1 and 2 should be bonded at 5Ghz since they are not that far apart (but sat 2 is far enough from the router such that it would want to connect at 2.4Ghz if it can't daisy chain).  FYI, using all latest firmware (in the screenshots above, the firmware versions are in the upper-right corner).

I bought the RBK853 unit from Netgear -- if there is no way to daisy chain, this thing's going back.  I didn't pay 2x the price to get half the speed at my second satellite compared with my old Orbi.

[kildare]

Currently in the Orbi AX the best possible topology is automatically selected by the system.

The best connection path should be calculated taking into account all the available hops and their actual transfer speeds.

So a daisy chain is selected if the system considers this the best available path (this happened to me too when testing the best satellite locations).

Then there is no need to be able to explicitly enable this feature.

Indeed the problem might be to know why the AX system now did not select a daisy chain topology...

[FURRYe38]

What is the distance between the RBSs? 30 feet is recommended in between RBR and RBS/RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected. https://kb.netgear.com/000036466/How-far-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite-from-my-Orbi-router

What you may try is that you may need to turn ON the RBS in sequencial order to get them to connect to the other RBS. 

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@Rogelio1 wrote:

Just bought the 3 pack (1 AX6000 router and 2 satellites), and as far as I can tell there is NO ability to enable daisy chain topology.

Here is the old (original orbi) settings for adanced wireless WITH daisy chain option.

Here is the new (AX6000 orbi) settings for advanced wireless with NO daisy chain option.

The sats are in a completely linear setup -- router is in living room, sat 1 is in office (exactly in the middle of router and sat 2), and sat 2 is in the shed. I literally just swapped in the AX6000 units for where each router and sat was, and the orbi app shows the two sats as being connected to the router (dotted line to them) as opposed to before where it was router --- sat 1 --- sat 2.

Can anbody else confirm that there is NO daisy chain topology for the AX6000 series.  I'm confounded, as I'm getting worse speeds by sat 2 because it's traversing 2x the distance now to the router rather than connecting to sat 1.

EDIT:  Furthermore, I can see in the old original orbi setup sat 2 was connected to sat 1 via 5Ghz (daisy chain) whereas now sat 2 is connecting at 2.4Ghz (again 2x the distance) to router.  The only explanation I have for this is that there is no daisy chain option, as logic would dictate that sat 1 and 2 should be bonded at 5Ghz since they are not that far apart (but sat 2 is far enough from the router such that it would want to connect at 2.4Ghz if it can't daisy chain).  FYI, using all latest firmware (in the screenshots above, the firmware versions are in the upper-right corner).

I bought the RBK853 unit from Netgear -- if there is no way to daisy chain, this thing's going back.  I didn't pay 2x the price to get half the speed at my second satellite compared with my old Orbi.

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[Rogelio1]

Disconnecting and turning on sequentially did not work.

Sat 1 is about 50 feet from router (router is in living room and sat 1 is down the hallway in an office).

Sat 2 is in a she-shed/cabana that is an additional 60 feet from sat 1 (so the distance traverses through the stucco wall of the main house) or about 110 feet from the router (as I mentioned it’s a strict linear distance).

The logic it’s using to connect at 2.4Ghz to the main router for sat 2 is faulty. The link connection is worse than the prior old Orbi as evidenced by my speed tests being half of what they were sitting beside sat 2.

I get Netgear trying to idiotproof the settings and have it dictate how it best thinks it should connect — but the logic is just plain wrong on their AX6000 Orbi unit for a second sat. There needs to be a satellite Advanced config page to manually set how it’s connected (I.e. daisy chain to first sat) and at what frequency.

[FURRYe38]

What happens if you try to swap RBS positions? 

[Rogelio1]

Holy crap — swapping the two satellites and plugging them in sequentially worked. It now shows them in a line / in daisy chain. (With the last sat connecting on 5Ghz)

Seems a bit temperamental in deciding when it wants to daisy chain. I still think there should be an override option.

[FURRYe38]

Glad that worked. Ya I guess it would be nice to have that check box like on the Orbi AC. 

I would make a backup configuration to file for safe keeping. Please mark your thread as solved so others will know. 

Enjoy. 

[Rogelio1]

So I went back and looked at the network map and it has reverted back to having each satellite connect to the router and disregard the prior daisy chain. Nothing was rebooted or reset.

Not having much confidence in this AX orbi’s firmware logic. AC Orbi always locked in on daisy chain and never reverted back when the topology setting was checked.

[FURRYe38]

Possible the app maybe changing status and not the actual system or RBS. If nothing rebooted. The RBS maybe still be daisy chained. 

[Rogelio1]

App is showing backhaul as good.  Web login shows it as poor. When I set everything up initially, backhaul was "good" in the web browser for the two satellites (why it's suddenly "poor" is a mystery to me -- the office satellite is like 50 feet away with out closed doors or many walls in the way. Also now shows sat 2 (furthest away / cabana) as being on 2.4Ghz which leads me to believe it is in fact connecting back to the router on 2.4Ghz (instead of 5Ghz chained to the other sat)

[FURRYe38]

OK. I would make contact with NG support about this. 

@ErnestTheGreat 

@Christian_R 

[Rogelio1]

Opened up a ticket and on hold with them now.  I'm literally going to point them to this thread to document my issue.

Now it shows that my satellite in the shed/cabana is connected at 5Ghz to the router (which makes even less sense... I would expect it to either connect at 5Ghz to the other sat, or connect at 2.4Ghz to the router (not ideal, but at least some logic there).

29 days left to see if this Orbi can sort itself out.  I can't imagine any setting (of which there really are none) will change its logic on 2.4 vs 5Ghz / daisy chain other than a firmware update.  So far I'm unimpressed with how it's handling a second sat and think its firmware is likely still very buggy.

[FURRYe38]

Let us know how it goes. 

[Rogelio1]

Netgear support seems fairly useless.  After pointing to this thread and explaining in detail the issue, this is what they wrote as the summary of the problem:

Case #________

cx unable to go online with wifi

-- He requested that I unplug all three units.  Place all three in the same room, do a factory reset.  unplug sat 1 and 2.  Plug in sat 1 (office) first -- wait for it to bond, then plug in sat 2 (cabana) and see how it bonds.  Will do this after work-hours and report back, but I suspect it will do exactly what it did before (either bond in daisy chain temporarily and revert, or straight-up bond only to router)... not sure what "magic" first plugging them in within the same room will do, since simply moving them to where they belong is when it implements its logic on how and at what frequency to bond.

[FURRYe38]

One thing you try, not sure if this will help, try turning down the power output of the RBRs 2.4 and 5Ghz radios, from 100 to 50% or 25%. Then power on the nearest RBS and let it sync. Then power On the farthest RBS. 

[FURRYe38]

Ok, so you got my curiosity going. 

I set up my RBR850 in AP mode as I already have a host router thats online currently. 

I first set the power output to 25% on both radios as the size of my house and placement of the RBS in a linear line out from the RBR, would effect the RBS connection so I wanted to make sure the farthest RBS down in the basement would connect to the RBS and not the RBR up on a 2nd story. There is about 40-45 feet approx. from the RBR to the RBS down in the basement. 

I turned on a RBS on the main floor in the kitchen, about half way in between the RBR and RBS in the basement as the crow flies:

F

First RBS connected. 

I turned on the 2nd RBS down the basement and placed it at the farthest corner of the house from the RBR and let it sync.

 

As you can see my iphone app shows the 2nd RBS wirelessly connected to the 1st RBS. 

After letting it settle for a bit, I checked my Android pad as well:

I went back after typing this up to see if the 2nd RBS connection moved from the RBS to the RBR. Still in daisy chain configuration as of posting this. 

I'll leave this going for next couple of hours however I can't leave it long term as the kitchen RBS will need to be removed for dinner time.

[FURRYe38]

Just updating this. As of close of work today, 2.5hours in operation, Daisy Chain was still configured before I had to take the system down. 

[Rogelio1]

Haven’t tried the transmit power edits. I did try moving all three to the same room and resetting. Not surprisingly the says bonded to the router. Disconnected and put back into respective rooms one by one. Same problem as before. The furthest sat will show for the first minute it’s daisy chained to the other sat and backhaul for both is “good”. A minute later when I check both backhauls show poor and each sat is bonded to the router (even the far one) at 5Ghz.

The decision making of how the second sat is pairing makes no sense to me whatsoever. On the verge of returning these to Netgear — I suspect there was a reason why they didn’t sell second satellites for about 6 months (and I think it’s because their firmware logic is inconsistent at best and garbage at worst)

[kildare]

Without testing it's hard to say what actually means "poor" in terms of transfer rate, in comparison with a "good" daisy chain connection.

But IMHO one thing is sure: the double wireless hop due to the daisy chain topology increases a lot the latency, so this could seriously affect some applications like on-line games, video conferencing, etc.

So the solution choosen by the Orbi AX might have taken into account all the consequences of the available connections and have some reason behind.

In my case I tried all the possible satellite locations to avoid the daisy chain topology even if the wireless connection was good (see attached image), but I wasn't successful and eventually had to resort to a wired satellite connection.

[FURRYe38]

Try the power level change to see. Mine maintained DC configuration for the couple of hours with out changing configuration back to Star.

I presume there is distance, signal and environmental factors that are causing your condition as well. 

IF that fails, return it and get something that works for you. Suspect and actuality are two different things. 

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@Rogelio1 wrote:
Haven’t tried the transmit power edits. I did try moving all three to the same room and resetting. Not surprisingly the says bonded to the router. Disconnected and put back into respective rooms one by one. Same problem as before. The furthest sat will show for the first minute it’s daisy chained to the other sat and backhaul for both is “good”. A minute later when I check both backhauls show poor and each sat is bonded to the router (even the far one) at 5Ghz.

The decision making of how the second sat is pairing makes no sense to me whatsoever. On the verge of returning these to Netgear — I suspect there was a reason why they didn’t sell second satellites for about 6 months (and I think it’s because their firmware logic is inconsistent at best and garbage at worst)

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[Rogelio1]

I’m considering having the middle (office ) first sat hard wired to the router (getting a handyman to crawl under house to route cat8 and cut out wall plates in both rooms).

Question: would the second sat in the cabana be intelligent enough to know the other sat is now Ethernet backhauled and connect directly to it (daisy chain) instead of trying to connect like it is now to the router? Basically does it see Ethernet backhaul as almost equivalent to the router and ramp up the logic on daisy chaining to the Ethernet connected sat?

[FURRYe38]

I would do CAT6A under and inwall to wall plate jacks. CAT6A is more robust for under and in wall cable runs. How far is the cabana location from the house? With in 200 feet? If so, why not have a cable guy run a CAT6A out there and then wire your RBS up there. 

Not sure about ethernet vs wireless detect on the RBS. I presume the RBS probably doent' care just as long as there is a signal to connect to. The RBS ethernet connected would handle the wired backhaul change and traffic there. 

[kildare]

About your question, I have no experience as my wired satellite was the farthest one.

About wireless vs. cable backahul, in theory a 5GHz AX wireless is faster (up to 2400 Mbps on Orbi AX, 4804 Mbps on Asus ZenWifi AX) vs. 1000 Mbps, but the wireless connection has to be very good.

If speed is a primary target, w/o testing it's impossible to choose.

Anyway, cable has less latency.

[Rogelio1]

Regarding cat8 vs 6a. This is what I just ordered (cat8):

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SL83W1C/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_uNvVEbQQM9Q10

I have this cable as well (cat6):
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003RCI5A0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_UOvVEbJ3VFQZN

Not sure under what circumstances the cat8 would be worse than the cat6. Can you clarify?

[FURRYe38]

https://www.cablesys.com/updates/cat6-cat6e-cat6a-differences/

https://www.lanshack.com/cat6a.aspx

I put UTP in my new addition a few years ago. I'm ready for 10Gb.