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Orbi AX router still needs firmware bugs fixed - latency, and slow satellite streaming

Anyuser5454
Guide

Orbi AX router still needs firmware bugs fixed - latency, and slow satellite streaming

I have an Orbi RBK842. There is severe latency in connections between my mobile devices and the router. This latency happens when connected with either the router or satellite.

Also, the connections between my Apple TV 4K and the satellite are way slow. If I turn off the satellite, connections with the farther away router are fast. The difference is observable when I stream video. The router provides crisp HD, and the satellite provides blurry, less than 480, resolution.

The firmware has simply not been written well.

As a result of these issues I got a Nighthawk AX6. No more latency, and speeds are fast to all my devices. The fact that a less expensive router does the job as it should goes to show the Orbi RBK842 is just not quite there as a final product.

I might come back to Orbi when the next generation comes out. Good luck to all of you out there.
Message 1 of 13

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Anyuser5454
Guide

Re: Orbi AX router still needs firmware bugs fixed - latency, and slow satellite streaming

I think I identified why the Orbi AX series wasn't working out for me. The Orbi AX doesn't allow toggling "Enable OFDMA in 2.4 GHz" or "Enable OFDMA in 5 GHz." When toggling this option "ON" in my Nighthawk, my mobile device latency goes up to about 2 seconds just like I observed in the Orbi AX. When I toggle this "OFF," latency is in milliseconds.

 

Orbi should add the ability toggle this on/off since some older devices, such as Apple TV 4K and iPhone X, do not support OFDMA, which likely leads to latency in some important scenarios.

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Message 3 of 13

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FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi AX router still needs firmware bugs fixed - latency, and slow satellite streaming

Please post about this over in the Orbi AX forum for the Orbi AX series:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-AX/bd-p/en-home-orbi-ax

 

Change the CTS values from 64 to 2347. 


@Anyuser5454 wrote:
I have an Orbi RBK842. There is severe latency in connections between my mobile devices and the router. This latency happens when connected with either the router or satellite.

Also, the connections between my Apple TV 4K and the satellite are way slow. If I turn off the satellite, connections with the farther away router are fast. The difference is observable when I stream video. The router provides crisp HD, and the satellite provides blurry, less than 480, resolution.

The firmware has simply not been written well.

As a result of these issues I got a Nighthawk AX6. No more latency, and speeds are fast to all my devices. The fact that a less expensive router does the job as it should goes to show the Orbi RBK842 is just not quite there as a final product.

I might come back to Orbi when the next generation comes out. Good luck to all of you out there.

 

Message 2 of 13
Anyuser5454
Guide

Re: Orbi AX router still needs firmware bugs fixed - latency, and slow satellite streaming

I think I identified why the Orbi AX series wasn't working out for me. The Orbi AX doesn't allow toggling "Enable OFDMA in 2.4 GHz" or "Enable OFDMA in 5 GHz." When toggling this option "ON" in my Nighthawk, my mobile device latency goes up to about 2 seconds just like I observed in the Orbi AX. When I toggle this "OFF," latency is in milliseconds.

 

Orbi should add the ability toggle this on/off since some older devices, such as Apple TV 4K and iPhone X, do not support OFDMA, which likely leads to latency in some important scenarios.

Message 3 of 13
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi AX router still needs firmware bugs fixed - latency, and slow satellite streaming

You can disable AX mode. Orbi doesn't support OFDMA. 

 

Message 4 of 13
Anyuser5454
Guide

Re: Orbi AX router still needs firmware bugs fixed - latency, and slow satellite streaming

That’s true, AX mode can be turned off. But then, what is the point of having an AX router... Guess it makes sense I downgraded to a lower tier AX router.
The Nighthawk has AX enabled but OFDMA disabled and I don’t get the same latency that I saw on the Orbi AX router.

Thanks for the help.
Message 5 of 13
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Orbi AX router still needs firmware bugs fixed - latency, and slow satellite streaming


@FURRYe38 wrote:

Orbi doesn't support OFDMA. 

 


I find this confusing.  The "solution" was to turn off OFDMA on the Nighthawk and the Orbi does not support OFDMA.

That seems to mean "off" means something different on Nighthawk than "not supported" means on Orbi.

Perhaps Orbi and Nighthawk use different chip sets?

Message 6 of 13
Jetdrive
Luminary

Re: Orbi AX router still needs firmware bugs fixed - latency, and slow satellite streaming

I may have read it wrong but this is how I read it. Turning off OFDMA fixes the latency problem in Nighthawks but the Orbi AX router has no way to toggle OFDMA off.

 

If the Orbi doesn't have OFDMA, then it isn't a true Wifi 6 router.

 

 

 

 

Message 7 of 13
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Orbi AX router still needs firmware bugs fixed - latency, and slow satellite streaming


@Jetdrive wrote:

If the Orbi doesn't have OFDMA, then it isn't a true Wifi 6 router.


I don't know about "true WiFi 6", but it is pretty clear that the Nighthawk X6 DataSheet clearly mentions OFDMA and the Orbi AX product DataSheet does not.  Seems like if the Orbi included that feature, it would have been highlighted as it is on the Nighthawk DataSheet.

 

So, I'm still confused.  "turn off" does not mean the same thing as "doesn't support to begin with.."

Message 8 of 13
Jetdrive
Luminary

Re: Orbi AX router still needs firmware bugs fixed - latency, and slow satellite streaming

Doing a little research and it appears the Orbi AX does support OFDMA. 

 

The Orbi kit is a 12-stream, tri-band AX6000 system that supports the latest Wi-Fi 6 technologies including WPA3 encryption, 1024 QAM, and Orthogonal Frequency-Division Multiple Access (OFDMA) data transmissions. It also supports 4x4 MU-MIMO simultaneous data streaming and signal beamforming and can reach maximum data rates of up to 1,200Mbps on the 2.4GHz band and up to 2,400Mbps on each of the two 5GHz bands.

 

Edit: Now I'm confused. These specs came from a review by PCMag. Not sure why Netgear wouldn't list OFDMA in their own literature as a supported protocol. So maybe it doesn't support it.

 

Message 9 of 13
Anyuser5454
Guide

Re: Orbi AX router still needs firmware bugs fixed - latency, and slow satellite streaming

Yes, I was 99.99% sure Orbi AX supported OFDMA but didn’t want to get into a community board debate. I believe the standard approach for Orbi AX routers is to enable OFDMA when AX features are turned on.
In the Nighthawk, OFDMA can be turned off while still enabling AX features.

Orbi AX routers need to support toggling OFDMA on/off to allow for what might be latency issues with devices that don’t have AX WiFi chips (like my iPhone X and Apple TV 4K). Either that, or fix the latency issues.

Also a separate issue, I noticed that the single SSID 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz approach in Orbi AX (but that can be toggled on/off in Nighthawk) led to minor disconnects in continuous pings and small data transmissions from my computer to a server. Orbi seems to check if a device should be connected via 2.4 or 5 GHz and when transitioning between the two causes disconnects (the disconnects happened to my devices even when not moving the physical location of the devices).
If I were to adopt Orbi in the future, having the ability to toggle the single SSID feature on/off would be a must. I cannot have occasional disconnects with servers I connect to.

Thanks for the help!
Message 10 of 13
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Orbi AX router still needs firmware bugs fixed - latency, and slow satellite streaming

Still seems strange that Netgear's Orbi AX web site and Product Data Sheet do not mention OFDMA.  Where did that quote come from?

Message 11 of 13
Jetdrive
Luminary

Re: Orbi AX router still needs firmware bugs fixed - latency, and slow satellite streaming

I edited my post, but you probably didn't go back and re-read it. Sorry

 

That quote came from PCMag. Looking the Wifi 6 published standard, OFDMA is an intregal part of the standard so I'm not sure how Netgear is advertising it as Wifi 6.

ANYUSER5454 is probably right. It's just always on and there is no way to turn it off in the Orbi AX. But then again, why wouldn't it be listed in the specs?

 

 

Message 12 of 13
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi AX router still needs firmware bugs fixed - latency, and slow satellite streaming

t's possible the OFDMA is supported however when it comes to Orbi AX or anything Orbi, you have to remember the Orbi systems are designed and based on simplistic use and operation. Items like actual QoS and advanced wifi configurations are either hidden or set up to automatically operate on Orbi systems. This maybe the the cased with AX and OFDMA which yes I have a NG router with options to disable OFDMA or AX separately. I can only presume the Orbi and the designed felt instead of giving this separate feature to users, they decided to tie AX and OFDMA together in to one user option in the UI, so they are both either enabled or disabed at the same time. 

 

Another problem is that NG has changed the default CTS values from 2347 to 64. Was said they wanted to use a minimal value to congested wifi environments. I guess this works to some extent however we have seen over on the Orbi AX forums that this new value causes problems for some users and there devices. Changing the value back to 2347 seems to be the fix for this. I wish NG would put this value back as default. This value and 2304/7 has been used since wifi first came out and hasn't been needed to be touched or configured by users, only when a troubleshooting problem arrises could some changes be made. Having this new lower 64 CTS value seem to be causing more problems than what they expect. SO this is one other thing that when put back to 2347, Orbi AX does work well for itself and users devices.

 

NG hasn't given in to users requests for SSID name separation. Thought they did give Orbi AC the ability to temporarily disable the SSID broadcast or make it hidden on either radio. This is one feature I wish and still hope they bring to Orbi AX. Will be really helpful. I have asked about this. 


@Anyuser5454 wrote:
Yes, I was 99.99% sure Orbi AX supported OFDMA but didn’t want to get into a community board debate. I believe the standard approach for Orbi AX routers is to enable OFDMA when AX features are turned on.
In the Nighthawk, OFDMA can be turned off while still enabling AX features.

Orbi AX routers need to support toggling OFDMA on/off to allow for what might be latency issues with devices that don’t have AX WiFi chips (like my iPhone X and Apple TV 4K). Either that, or fix the latency issues.

Also a separate issue, I noticed that the single SSID 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz approach in Orbi AX (but that can be toggled on/off in Nighthawk) led to minor disconnects in continuous pings and small data transmissions from my computer to a server. Orbi seems to check if a device should be connected via 2.4 or 5 GHz and when transitioning between the two causes disconnects (the disconnects happened to my devices even when not moving the physical location of the devices).
If I were to adopt Orbi in the future, having the ability to toggle the single SSID feature on/off would be a must. I cannot have occasional disconnects with servers I connect to.

Thanks for the help!

 

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