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iPhone 12 Pro loses WiFi connection with RBR850

Rogelio1
Apprentice

iPhone 12 Pro loses WiFi connection with RBR850

I’ve had the exact same problem for the last 1.5 years and NOTHING has solved this. iPhone 12 Pro — I’ve done everything mentioned above — static IP address, factory reset Orbi, CTS changes, dropped power to 50%. I find it odd that my prior iPhone XR nor my wife’s iPhone 13 have issues; neither does my iPad Pro nor my 14” MacBook Pro. The issue always occurs when I walk quickly or back and forth between router and/or satellites that are somewhat equidistant in a line setup. My router is 40 feet from Sat1 hardwired, and sat2 is 30 feet from Sat1 (wireless backhaul to sat1).I’m on the latest Orbi firmware (4.6.8.5) however every prior version has had this behavior. It seems illogical to say I need to place these in different locations — something specific is going wrong with the acquisition of an IP lease to the phone between Orbi devices. The iPhone 12 will be connected to Wi-Fi consistently but have no actual internet / webpage loads — data just hangs until it resolves itself in about 2-4 minutes… or if I forget the Wi-Fi and re-addit, or if I reboot my phone. I’ve also reset all internet connections and factory reset my phone even. I have a separate iPhone 12 as my work phone that does this exact same thing as well. I previously had the Orbi rbr50 kit and this never happened on the same devices. I’ve optimized the channels being used using a Wi-Fi analyzer and there is no other interference that should cause this (ax is on without 20/40 coexist). I’ve even replaced my iPhone 12 Pro once (due to a cracked screen), and the replacement which I did not restore from a backup did the same thing. I’m sort of out of options here having tried almost everything that has been suggested in this post and every incarnation of others (disabling private Wi-Fi address / tracking, disabling Wi-Fi-assist, etc.).

Message 1 of 85
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: iPhone 12 Pro loses WiFi connection with RBR850

What is your current WiFi and Advanced WiFi configuration look like on the RBR?

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft? 

What is the distance between the router and 📡 satellite(s)? 30 feet or more is recommended in between RBR and RBS📡 to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected. 

 

I have 12 Pro Max and have never had any issues with it connecting to the RBR ever. iOS 15.5

I run manual channels 1 and 40, CTS 64, WMM enabled, 50% power, 25% if I run two RBS. WPA2/AES only.  

Possible your one 12 Pro could be faulty if other iPhones are working. 

Message 2 of 85
Rogelio1
Apprentice

Re: iPhone 12 Pro loses WiFi connection with RBR850

What is your current WiFi and Advanced WiFi configuration look like on the RBR?

Wifi:

[x] Enable 2.4 Ghz

[x] Enable 5 Ghz

2.4Ghz Channel [03]

5Ghz Channel [48]

Security Options [WPA2-PSK [AES]]

 

Advanced Wireless Settings 2.4GHz:

[ ] Enable 20/40 MHz Coexistence

[x] Enable WMM settings (2.4 GHz b/g/n/ax)

CTS/RTS Theshold [64]

Preamble Mode [Automatic]

Transmit Power [100%]

 

Advanced Wireless Settings 5GHz:

[x] Enable WMM settings (5 GHz a/n/ac/ax)

CTS/RTS Theshold [64]

Preamble Mode [Automatic]

Transmit Power [100%]

 

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft? What is the distance between the router and 📡 satellite(s)? 30 feet or more is recommended in between RBR and RBS📡 to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected. 

 

See above.  House is 1500 Square feet but Sat 2 is placed in a separate (not in 1500 Square foot) location in a She-Shed / property is 6000SqFt

My router is 40 feet from Sat1 hardwired, and sat2 is 30 feet from Sat1 (wireless backhaul to sat1). I’m on the latest Orbi firmware.

Two sets of walls between sat 1 and sat 2.  Multiple walls between Router and Sat 1 (hardwired)

 

 

The channels I have them on are based on WifiExplorer surveys to limit interference of closest neighbor wifi.

I've tried 50% power, and the behavior persists.  I've effectively tried 3 different iPhone 12's (my current pro before it was replaced, when it was replaced, and then a work iPhone 12) and this behavior exists/existed on all.  Behavior did not exist on prior iPhone XR, wife's current iPhone 13, iPad 12.1 Pro (3rd gen), 14" Macbook Pro.

 

I have not tried dropping power to 25% -- I suspect this applies not only to the SSID broadcast but to the backhaul, yes?  (if so, I'd imagine that sat2 would have throughput drop, and also have signal drop on Sat 1 from clients connected since it's on the far-end of the house from the router on the other side.

 

The setup is in a line -- router on far South-side of house; Sat1 hardwired to Router on far North-side of house (40 feet and multiple building materials between); Sat 2 off main-property in a She-Shed 30 feet southwest south of Sat1 (but with two thick walls between).  Typically when I'm in my master BR adjacent to the bedroom where Sat1 is (but somewhat closer to Sat2), I see devices all connect to Sat1;  I see all my devices inside the house connected to router when closer to the South side of the house; generally when I walk outside of my master BR or closer to the She-Shed and further North, I see the device switch to Sat2.  When I lose connection, it tends to be when I walk from my master BR towards the living room router, then quickly back to my master BR -- I'm guessing the client or satellite flips out and can't maintain a lease (even if I've manually set the iPhone to a static IP I've reserved for my iPhone's MAC address having turned off private wifi feature).

 

Message 3 of 85
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: iPhone 12 Pro loses WiFi connection with RBR850


@Rogelio1 wrote:

What is your current WiFi and Advanced WiFi configuration look like on the RBR?

Wifi:

[x] Enable 2.4 Ghz

[x] Enable 5 Ghz

2.4Ghz Channel [03] Try 1,6 or 11. 3 and other channels are not primary ones to use. Only used by the system. I use 1 and 40 here. 

5Ghz Channel [48]

Security Options [WPA2-PSK [AES]]

 

Advanced Wireless Settings 2.4GHz:

[ ] Enable 20/40 MHz Coexistence

[x] Enable WMM settings (2.4 GHz b/g/n/ax)

CTS/RTS Theshold [64] Try 2307

Preamble Mode [Automatic]

Transmit Power [100%]

 

Advanced Wireless Settings 5GHz:

[x] Enable WMM settings (5 GHz a/n/ac/ax)

CTS/RTS Theshold [64]

Preamble Mode [Automatic]

Transmit Power [100%]

 

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft? What is the distance between the router and 📡 satellite(s)? 30 feet or more is recommended in between RBR and RBS📡 to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected. 

 

See above.  House is 1500 Square feet but Sat 2 is placed in a separate (not in 1500 Square foot) location in a She-Shed / property is 6000SqFt

My router is 40 feet from Sat1 hardwired, and sat2 is 30 feet from Sat1 (wireless backhaul to sat1). I’m on the latest Orbi firmware.

Two sets of walls between sat 1 and sat 2.  Multiple walls between Router and Sat 1 (hardwired)

This size of home, only 1 RBS would be recommended. 

https://youtu.be/UR0viMLISz4

 

The channels I have them on are based on WifiExplorer surveys to limit interference of closest neighbor wifi.

I've tried 50% power, and the behavior persists.  I've effectively tried 3 different iPhone 12's (my current pro before it was replaced, when it was replaced, and then a work iPhone 12) and this behavior exists/existed on all.  Behavior did not exist on prior iPhone XR, wife's current iPhone 13, iPad 12.1 Pro (3rd gen), 14" Macbook Pro.

I have not seen this behavior on my iPhone12 Pro Max or MacBook Pro 2018

 

I have not tried dropping power to 25% -- I suspect this applies not only to the SSID broadcast but to the backhaul, yes?  Not if ethernet connected. (if so, I'd imagine that sat2 would have throughput drop, and also have signal drop on Sat 1 from clients connected since it's on the far-end of the house from the router on the other side.

Let try reducing the power on the RBR. I use 50% all the time on my primary Orbi and I have a 5000sq ft home. Plenty of coverage. RBS are ethernet connected as well.

What CAT# lan cable is being used for the RBS from the RBR? 

There any kind of LAN switch in between the RBR and RBS? 

 

The setup is in a line -- router on far South-side of house; Sat1 hardwired to Router on far North-side of house (40 feet and multiple building materials between); Sat 2 off main-property in a She-Shed 30 feet southwest south of Sat1 (but with two thick walls between).  Typically when I'm in my master BR adjacent to the bedroom where Sat1 is (but somewhat closer to Sat2), I see devices all connect to Sat1;  I see all my devices inside the house connected to router when closer to the South side of the house; generally when I walk outside of my master BR or closer to the She-Shed and further North, I see the device switch to Sat2.  When I lose connection, it tends to be when I walk from my master BR towards the living room router, then quickly back to my master BR -- I'm guessing the client or satellite flips out and can't maintain a lease (even if I've manually set the iPhone to a static IP I've reserved for my iPhone's MAC address having turned off private wifi feature). Either set a static IP address ON the phone or reserver an IP address for the phone ON the router. Do not use both methods at the same time. 

 


 

Message 4 of 85
Rogelio1
Apprentice

Re: iPhone 12 Pro loses WiFi connection with RBR850

Screen Shot 2022-07-13 at 10.36.52 AM.pngScreen Shot 2022-07-13 at 10.33.30 AM.png

 

I'm the bands in red and green in the second pic -- first one is the scan of the area -- you can see there's some lower strength clusters at 1, 6, and 11 already that are other Wifi's -- with 40Mhz on, there's no way I can avoid spanning two sets of different wifi's, so being on channel 3 seems to place me around the cluster at 1 and 6 (even if I set 1, I'd presumably still conflict with the clusters at 1 and 6 unless I was at 20Mhz).

I'm almost always connecting with my phone on 5Ghz because I'm so close to a router or satellite all the time, so the graph above for 2.4Ghz is probably academic, only of relevance to devices that only do 2.4Ghz (and I don't have too many of them).

 

You can see the 5Ghz channel also shouldn't matter because regardless of what I set it to, it sits on the cluster in the 36-48 frequency range.  I believe the 5Ghz backhaul is always on channels 149-157.

 

Wiring to sat1 is via Cat7 cable directly from the router (no switches between); wireless backhaul from Sat1 to Sat2.

I'll try CTS/RTS of 2307 -- I read that in another forum and believe I tried it before, but to no avail; I'll also try setting power to 50% again (but I recall trying that last year on an older firmware with similar no effect).  I have a predefined lease to my iPhone 12 and when I set iPhone to auto DHCP from router, it had the same issue... and when I removed the reservation and set iphone 12 to manual, it still did the same thing.  I get your point about not having both at same time (I've tried this), and it doesn't seem to affect normal connection stability / still has the issue I mentioned when walking back and forth and not connecting for 3-5 minutes or until manually forgetting the network, re-adding, or rebooting iPhone 12.

Message 5 of 85
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: iPhone 12 Pro loses WiFi connection with RBR850

So lowering the power on the system will help with less interactions and noise interferences with other wifi signals on the same channels. 

Again I would use 1, 6 or 11. All other channels are sub channels and no primary channels that systems should use. I would try channel 11 first and reduce the power to 25%. 

 

Possible all these issues your seeing is mostly a noisy environment and configuration. 

You might want to start over and factory reset the RBR and setup from scratch. Turn OFF the RBS for now. Set up the RBR using same SSID name of course. Set manual channel 11 and 40. Can leave 20/40Mhz only enabled. Try CTS 2307 or 2347. 

Don't set any reservations or static IPs. 

 

Also would you enable SIP ALG on the RBR as well and see if you notice any changes? 

 

Leave the RBS off and test the apple device to see if same thing happens...

Message 6 of 85
Rogelio1
Apprentice

Re: iPhone 12 Pro loses WiFi connection with RBR850

Thanks. Will try this over the weekend. Just to confirm — you’d suggest NOT restoring from a backup config file, correct?

How would the overlap look for channel 6 versus 1 or 11 — it seems that even at 1 or 11 it will overlap with folks on channel 6 if using 40Mhz.

What / where is SIP ALG?

Message 7 of 85
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: iPhone 12 Pro loses WiFi connection with RBR850

Remember that the scanning app your using just how's over all signals.

Actual channels used are seen on the RBRs advanced home page. if you set channel 1, secondary channel used by the system maybe channel 4 or 5. Would not touch channel 6. 

Message 8 of 85
Rogelio1
Apprentice

Re: iPhone 12 Pro loses WiFi connection with RBR850

@FURRYe38 

To confirm -- would you suggest I not restore from a backup config file?  (I do have a number of static reservations that are needed and port forwards, but I suspect I could take screen-shots and manually add back all except for those that pertain to the iPhone after I test).

 

Also, what/where is SIP ALG?

 

 

Message 9 of 85
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: iPhone loses WiFi connection with RBR850

if you captured the back up on this same version of FW, then it maybe ok to apply it. I would test the RBR out initially with out the back up first though just to see to be sure nothing else could cause any problems. Apply the backup if you don't see any issues later on. 

 

Advanced Tab/Wan Setup:

NAT Filtering > SIP ALG

Message 10 of 85
Rogelio1
Apprentice

Re: iPhone 12 Pro loses WiFi connection with RBR850

Just read up a bit on SIP:
https://getvoip.com/blog/2020/09/01/what-is-sip-alg/

I do use Verizon wireless Wi-Fi calling because it’s superior to the cellular reception — do I understand correctly that SIP ALG applies to Wi-Fi calling on the iPhone? If so, It would seem that there’s a higher likelihood of call drops and packet corrections garbling it enabling SIP ALG (unchecking the box that says disable SIP ALG).

Message 11 of 85
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: iPhone 12 Pro loses WiFi connection with RBR850

Please do a quick check on this if you can and see if you experience any bad issues. Disable it afterwards.

Message 12 of 85
Rogelio1
Apprentice

Re: iPhone 12 Pro loses WiFi connection with RBR850

Implemented every single recommendation you made this afternoon manually setting all router settings back after factory reset on all units — no issues with just router before adding the satellites.

No sooner than a few hours after adding back the satellites and walking back and forth, the same exact behavior repeats again. This is at 25% power, 20/40 coexistence on, channel 11 / 40, threshold setting you recommended, automatic dhcp / no reservations / port forwards, etc. Nearing the upper limits of my patience with this unit.

Message 13 of 85
Rogelio1
Apprentice

Re: iPhone 12 Pro loses WiFi connection with RBR850

I believe there’s a contingent of folks with this problem that remains unresolved:

https://www.reddit.com/r/orbi/comments/nlhz96/frequent_disconnection_on_orbi_rbk852_only_on_ipad/

I still think there’s some sort of handoff issue when crossing over between a zone of the router and then to one managed by the satellite. I noticed this happens as well on my new MacBook Pro 14” actually — I thought it did not, but realized I didn’t try to immediately connect to Wi-Fi after walking back and forth until today (it had resolved the disconnect typically by the time I used it).

It baffles me why forgetting the network and reading it immediately resolves the issue when it’s in the stuck stage and won’t connect to Wi-Fi, but turning on and off airplane / Wi-Fi does not. Maybe there is some device token or remnant left on the Orbi system tied to the MAC that is not properly circulated to the satellite when I move back and forth and the act of forgetting and readding it on my phone initiates a truly new handshake that’s accepted right away to connect. There used to be beamforming, fast roaming, mu-mimo handshake settings on the rbr50 that could be disabled / enabled but none exist on the AX. I’m wondering if the implementation of this handshake on the AX unit between router and satellite has bugs for some mobile device handoffs. I really don’t think this is a problem of signal interference, power / proximity but the mere handoff happening between satellite to router being dropped and lost / having to be sorted out on the Orbi (not a client issue). If this was a client issue manual dhcp IP on the phone would fix it, but it does not — this tells me the issue is specifically the Orbi system.

Message 14 of 85
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: iPhone 12 Pro loses WiFi connection with RBR850

So with just the RBR, can you add just one RBR and not two? 

Try setting CTS to 2307

Disable AX mode on both 2.4 and 5Ghz.

 


@Rogelio1 wrote:
Implemented every single recommendation you made this afternoon manually setting all router settings back after factory reset on all units — no issues with just router before adding the satellites.

No sooner than a few hours after adding back the satellites and walking back and forth, the same exact behavior repeats again. This is at 25% power, 20/40 coexistence on, channel 11 / 40, threshold setting you recommended, automatic dhcp / no reservations / port forwards, etc. Nearing the upper limits of my patience with this unit.

 

Message 15 of 85
Rogelio1
Apprentice

Re: iPhone 12 Pro loses WiFi connection with RBR850

@FURRYe38

Yes, did set CTS to 2307 after factory reset and manually adding settings back.

Sat 2 is 5ghz backhaul bonded to Sat1 (30-40 feet away between two walls and a backyard) which is in turn hardwired to the Router (30-40 feet away with a lot of walls and a hallway turn). They are in a line.

I believe the issue is between router and sat1 because that is the walking path that wherein the back-forth quick walk causes the iPhone 12 to lose its connection for 3-5 min.

Are you suggesting I unplug one of the satellites and just user RBR + Sat? Do you suggest testing with the hardwired sat1 first (unplug sat2)?

Message 16 of 85
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: iPhone 12 Pro loses WiFi connection with RBR850

Yes. 

 

Message 17 of 85
Rogelio1
Apprentice

Re: iPhone 12 Pro loses WiFi connection with RBR850

I honestly think that that the fast roaming implementation is broken / has bugs in the AX series.  I get that the client chooses the AP if fast-roaming were able to be disabled (which it cannot in the AX series / there is no option, so we can't solely place the blame at the feet of the iPhone / client); however, when fast roaming is on (which I believe it is always in the Orbi AX series), my understanding is the Orbi sends some instructions to the client on which AP / channel the client should connect to since all SSID's are the same.  This is my only explanation for why multiple users have reported this issue in the AX series when using a wireless mobile device and quickly walking between AP's that overlap... that the fast roaming instructions, code, etc. has issues so that some amount of time allows for the AP to reset/resend the instructions to the client (or that this is forcibly done when the client forgets and re-adds the device because it sees it as a new query/poll to the AP).


@FURRYe38 -- Do you know how Fast Roaming is implemented in the AX series.  You suggested I try disabling "AX"; however, I think fast-roaming is a feature that is defined by whether WPA2+ is enabled and if the router/client has it enabled.

 

Message 18 of 85
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: iPhone 12 Pro loses WiFi connection with RBR850

I believe so. Its automatic I believe. Orbi AC has or had a UI setting for this on that series, When AX cable out NG removed both Fast Roam and Daisy Chain. Set those to automatic handling with in the system. 

 

Also have you tried CTS set to 500? Someone else reported this solved there iPhone connection problems with theres. 

 

what iOS version is loaded on the iPhone. Possible handling or mis-handling of the connection by the iOS as well. The iPhone should reconnect to any signal if on same SSID name and PW. 

Message 19 of 85
Rogelio1
Apprentice

Re: iPhone 12 Pro loses WiFi connection with RBR850

I can try Cts = 500

I’m on the latest iOS (15.5), but this behavior has happened on every prior iOS version since late 2020 (so presumably since iOS 13). I do also see it on my Mbp 14” / Monterey (m1pro chipset).
Message 20 of 85
Rogelio1
Apprentice

Re: iPhone 12 Pro loses WiFi connection with RBR850

Changed to CTS=500. Worked for a day, but just now observed the same behavior (disconnected from Wi-Fi for 3 minutes walking between router and sat1). Also tried changing to channel 1 and still at 25% power.

Have not tried disabling AX yet — can you confirm what the implication of this is beyond dropping down to 802.11ac speeds? (I.e. what feature subsets are present in AX that this potentially eliminates to resolve the connection issues)
Message 21 of 85
Rogelio1
Apprentice

Re: iPhone 12 Pro loses WiFi connection with RBR850

… and now I go into the router to see it shows Sat2, which I had reserved its MAC address to x.99 now showing x.250, and a poor connection not to sat1 (which is 30 feet away), but to the router which is 70 feet away. Rebooted sat2 and it picked up x.99 reservation but still poor connection illogically bound to router and not hardwired Sat 1 which it has to go through to get to the router (at another 40 feet).

Edit: now Sat 2 says “out of sync” 10 minutes after rebooting. Then cycles back to “poor” connection to router a moment later.

I’ve run out of ideas for this unit other than throwing away my satellites (why then did I buy a mesh system?). This is without a doubt the worst router I’ve ever owned, and I’m not a novice when it comes to networking and having owned a couple dozen units over the last 15 years (dd-wrt setups back in the day). Maybe I always purchased reliable routers (and fewer mesh systems), but this is definitely not one.
Message 22 of 85
Garwoofoo
Apprentice

Re: iPhone 12 Pro loses WiFi connection with RBR850

I'm also having this problem (have posted in at least one of the multiple threads describing this issue) though it's very occasional for me. Maybe once a week, that I actually notice, although I assume there are other instances where perhaps I haven't realised the phone has disconnected for a period. But it's certainly not the constant problem for me that others have described.

 

For what it's worth, I'm running CTS 500, and have the Orbi in Access Point mode.

 

I completely agree that it appears to be linked to the hand-off between the router and the satellites. Maybe one of the reasons I don't have this issue as often as others is that, because of the layout of my home, I mostly connect to one or other of the satellites. Only rarely to the router.

 

I don't understand why this issue appears specific to Apple products though. I've disabled Wifi Private Address and the other settings that @FURRYe38 recommended and it made no difference.

 

Does everyone here have at least one wired satellite? I'm wondering if that's part of the issue. In general I have found wired satellite support slightly more flakey with the Orbi than wireless, I'd be interested to try and eliminate that as the cause.

Message 23 of 85
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: iPhone 12 Pro loses WiFi connection with RBR850

Can you connect both your RBS wirelessly and see if thing change? Or connect them both via ethernet? 

 

Had one user claim similar problems on there iPhone however turns out there VLAN configuration was the problem:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-WiFi-6-AX-and-WiFi-6E-AXE/My-iPhone-13-pro-would-loss-the-inte...

 

Seems fixed now. However I believe both there RBS are ethernet connected. 


@Garwoofoo wrote:

I'm also having this problem (have posted in at least one of the multiple threads describing this issue) though it's very occasional for me. Maybe once a week, that I actually notice, although I assume there are other instances where perhaps I haven't realised the phone has disconnected for a period. But it's certainly not the constant problem for me that others have described.

 

For what it's worth, I'm running CTS 500, and have the Orbi in Access Point mode.

 

I completely agree that it appears to be linked to the hand-off between the router and the satellites. Maybe one of the reasons I don't have this issue as often as others is that, because of the layout of my home, I mostly connect to one or other of the satellites. Only rarely to the router.

 

I don't understand why this issue appears specific to Apple products though. I've disabled Wifi Private Address and the other settings that @FURRYe38 recommended and it made no difference.

 

Does everyone here have at least one wired satellite? I'm wondering if that's part of the issue. In general I have found wired satellite support slightly more flakey with the Orbi than wireless, I'd be interested to try and eliminate that as the cause.


 

Message 24 of 85
Rogelio1
Apprentice

Re: iPhone 12 Pro loses WiFi connection with RBR850

I do have one satellite Ethernet back hauled to router. My setup is 40ft from router to sat1 (Ethernet) and then sat2 to sat1 5ghz backhaul 40ft feet away. (So router and sat2 are basically 80ft away in a line).

After screwing around with power up to 50%, disabling MAC address reservation on my satellites, and rebooting each device in order, it now properly has sat2 bonded to sat1 again (as opposed to router).

I can try removing the Ethernet backhaul on router->sat1, but I specifically had the line run under my house because I was getting only 250 mbps (on my gigabit internet) there before the wireless backhaul (lots of wall turns), and even worse speed at sat2 (around 125). When I am connected properly now, I get 700mbps near sat1 and 500 near sat2.
Message 25 of 85
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