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Apprentice

Orbi always loses configuration after cable modem reset

Hi - I have a Orbi RBR50 and one RBS50. My firmware version is V1.12.0.18

 

I have always had a problem where my Orbi base unit will lose its configuration information every time my cable modem resets. If I turn off my Orbi base before resetting my cable modem, there are no problems - this only occurs when the cable modem resets on its own, or my cable company loses signal to my modem.

 

The lost configuration issue I see is this: After the cable modem comes back up, I get limited connectivity on my home LAN, and a lot of websites are not accessible. If I try to go to the Orbi configuration pages, I continuously get prompted to re-enter my username and password (which always fails). Eventually, I will get prompted to enter my router serial number, and I get my password recovery questions. However, even after that, my provided username/password (which is the one I always enter) still gets rejected. A while after that, I will get a prompt that says that my Orbi base address was changed to 10.0.0.1 to prevent IP address conflicts. At this point (it's been about 20 minutes since starting), I can usually get to the configuration page to reconfigure back to the 192.168.1.1 address and DNS range.

 

I have had this problem for many months now, and Netgear hasn't fixed it with any firmware updates.

How do I get this issue elevated to get the Orbi firmware issue resolved? This could be a massive pain to customers who aren't tech savvy and can't even get to the internet because their Orbi gets messed up by this.

Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 1 of 21

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Highlighted
Master

Re: Orbi always loses configuration after cable modem reset

 

Your cable modem is hardwired with an IP address of 192.168.100.1.  This is described in the manual here:  http://www.downloads.netgear.com/files/GDC/CM400/CM400_UM_17July2015.pdf

 

With your Orbi setup to use a LAN IP of 192.168.1.1 and a subnet mask of 255.255.0.0 you have included the address space used by the modem in you LAN and created a conflict between the Orbi LAN and the cable modem's IP address. I'm not certain what's happening exactly, but it's very likely this is the source of your issue with Orbi sensing a conflict and resetting the LAN to 10.0.0.1.

 

You should change your Orbi LAN subnet to something different, like 172.16.X.X.

 

I'm curious.  Why are you using 255.255.0.0?  What are you doing that you need 65534 IP addresses on your LAN?

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Message 12 of 21

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Highlighted
Master

Re: Orbi always loses configuration after cable modem reset

 

What subnet are you using for your Orbi LAN?  For example, is it 192.168.100.X?

Message 2 of 21
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Re: Orbi always loses configuration after cable modem reset

following on from what steve has asked above

 

whats the make and model of the cable modem and do you know if its running in bridge modem or router mode ( i suspect router mode ) , the reason the orbi is changing to 10.0.0.1 is because its seeing an upsream dhcp server or router using the same default 192.168.1.1 address and its attempting to avoid ip conflicts

 

having a router behind another router is not a good thing and is best to be avoided where possible

 

not sure what other functions your cable modem provides ( eg tv , phone etc ) if any as the easiest way to avoid this is to run the orbi in AP mode and let your cable modem do all the routing and dhcp etc , if the cable modem has wifi also disable it

 

--------------

 

the alternative is to bridge your cable modem ( if possible ) and run the orbi as your main router and wifi

 

 

ether of the above will solve your issue

Message 3 of 21
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Master

Re: Orbi always loses configuration after cable modem reset

 

Guys, here is what might be happening. Some cable modems, even when setup as a bridge, will give out a private IP when they lose connection with the cable company's network.  For example, some the COMCAST/Arris modems will give out IPs in the 192.168.100.X range.  If Orbi is using the same range for its LAN, then Orbi will automatically change the LAN IP range, and hose things up.

 

Note that this will happen even if things are properly configured with the cable box in bridged mode and Orbi as a router.

 

Also note that you cannot solve this by using AP mode, because the cable modem is not a router and will assign WAN IPs when things are working properly.

 

The only way to prevent this would be to use a subnet on the Orbi LAN that's different from the one used by the cable modem when the modem cannot reach the cable company.

 

This is a case of Orbi trying to be helpful and automatically avoiding problems, but thereby causing problems.

Message 4 of 21
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Re: Orbi always loses configuration after cable modem reset

192.168.100.xxx wouldnt be a problem though , the cable modem would need to be using 192.168.1.xxx , and if its using 192.168.1.1 its usually routing , again we wont really know till the OP posts his make and model of cable modem

 

it depends on the cable modem as many are also routers

 

but i do agree if it changes to 10.0.0.1 it should then not have issue after that

Message 5 of 21
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Master

Re: Orbi always loses configuration after cable modem reset

 

I believe 192.168.100.XXX would be a problem if the Orbi was set to use that range for the LAN. Once the cable modem came up and assigned a 192.168.100.X IP to the Orbi WAN interface, Orbi would detect a conflict and change the LAN. Another user posted on here a couple days ago with the exact problem with an Arris modem.

 

Read this thread for a description of the modem behavior:  http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r22146513-Are-all-of-comcast-s-rep-s-ignorant-to-192-168-100-x

 

The behavior is apparently intended to allow access to the modem setup pages when the cable network is down.

Message 6 of 21
Highlighted
Apprentice

Re: Orbi always loses configuration after cable modem reset

Thanks, guys!

 

Here is additional information on my setup:

I have a Netgear CM400 Cable Modem - Just a modem, no router. There isn't another router or DHCP server on my LAN (unless I'm missing something), though I have a bunch 'o switches scattered around the house.

 

My Orbi LAN setup is as follows:

 

  • The Orbi Base Router's address is: 192.168.1.1
  • The subnet mask is: 255.255.0.0
  • RIP is Disabled
  • The DHCP Server starting IP address is: 192.168.1.100
  • The DHCP Server ending IP address is: 192.168.1.254

There are really a couple of issues here:

  1. Why doesn't the Orbi recognize my totally valid Username / Password if the cable modem goes down while the Orbi is powered up? I'm connected to the Orbi login page at 192.168.1.1 (I'm assuming), since I am being repeatedly prompted for the Username and Password - at this point the Orbi IP address hasn't been changed, and it replys back with the proper Username / Password when I answer my stored password recovery questions. This seems like an Orbi firmware issue independent of the IP address reassignment.
  2. The IP address reassignment to 10.0.0.1 doesn't seem to occur unless I hit the "Cancel" button during my multiple signin attempts, and get prompted with my recovery questions. The IP address reassignment will sometimes occur after the Orbi shows me my Username / Password, and I try logging in again.

Thanks again ...

 

AzJazz

Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 7 of 21
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Re: Orbi always loses configuration after cable modem reset

what are the make and model of those switchs and are the just dumb switches or semi managed or managed

 

cant say why its doing what its doing but suggest you factory reset and compleyly redo the initial setup making sure first it has the latest fw installed

Message 8 of 21
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Apprentice

Re: Orbi always loses configuration after cable modem reset


@peteytesting wrote:

what are the make and model of those switchs and are the just dumb switches or semi managed or managed

 

cant say why its doing what its doing but suggest you factory reset and compleyly redo the initial setup making sure first it has the latest fw installed


Hi, Pete - The switches are all dumb ... nothing is managed. I have a DLINK DGS-1008G gigabit switch and a couple of old DLINK DES-1105 switches.

I have manually reprogrammed my Orbi a few times now, and it hasn't seemed to make a difference.

Message 9 of 21
Highlighted
Master

Re: Orbi always loses configuration after cable modem reset

@AzJazz Do you really mean your subnet mask is: 255.255.0.0?  If it is, I would suggest you change it to 255.255.255.0.

Message 10 of 21
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Apprentice

Re: Orbi always loses configuration after cable modem reset


@st_shaw wrote:

@AzJazz Do you really mean your subnet mask is: 255.255.0.0?  If it is, I would suggest you change it to 255.255.255.0.


Yes, the subnet mask of 255.255.0.0 is intentional. I could trim that down to 255.240.0.0, but then it gets a bit messy with configuring devices on the LAN.

Message 11 of 21
Highlighted
Master

Re: Orbi always loses configuration after cable modem reset

 

Your cable modem is hardwired with an IP address of 192.168.100.1.  This is described in the manual here:  http://www.downloads.netgear.com/files/GDC/CM400/CM400_UM_17July2015.pdf

 

With your Orbi setup to use a LAN IP of 192.168.1.1 and a subnet mask of 255.255.0.0 you have included the address space used by the modem in you LAN and created a conflict between the Orbi LAN and the cable modem's IP address. I'm not certain what's happening exactly, but it's very likely this is the source of your issue with Orbi sensing a conflict and resetting the LAN to 10.0.0.1.

 

You should change your Orbi LAN subnet to something different, like 172.16.X.X.

 

I'm curious.  Why are you using 255.255.0.0?  What are you doing that you need 65534 IP addresses on your LAN?

View solution in original post

Message 12 of 21
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Apprentice

Re: Orbi always loses configuration after cable modem reset


@st_shaw wrote:

 

 

I'm curious.  Why are you using 255.255.0.0?  What are you doing that you need 65534 IP addresses on your LAN?


It's not about 65534 IP addresses. I have VPN server nodes located at 192.168.2.1 and 192.168.10.1, which is why I had the third octet set to '0".

Message 13 of 21
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Master

Re: Orbi always loses configuration after cable modem reset

 

Ok. So you could change your servers to 172.16.2.1 and 172.16.10.1.

 

What does that address scheme do that you can't do with both servers under a single /24 address space?

Message 14 of 21
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Apprentice

Re: Orbi always loses configuration after cable modem reset


@st_shaw wrote:

 

Ok. So you could change your servers to 172.16.2.1 and 172.16.10.1.

 

What does that address scheme do that you can't do with both servers under a single /24 address space?


@st_shaw - Thanks, I wasn't familiar with the 172.16.x.x through 172.31.x.x range. I'll give it a shot.

 

But ... When I tried to set that up with my Orbi, but I wasn't able to adjust the first three octets of the DNS server IP address. The first three octets were grayed-out and unmodifiable.

Message 15 of 21
Highlighted
Master

Re: Orbi always loses configuration after cable modem reset

 

I'm not really sure what you are saying.

 

The DNS settings are located in the Internet (WAN) settings part of the router GUI.

Changing the LAN to 172.16.X.X. is located in the LAN settings part of the router GUI.

 

One setting should have no impact on the other.

Message 16 of 21
Highlighted
Apprentice

Re: Orbi always loses configuration after cable modem reset


@st_shaw wrote:

 

I'm not really sure what you are saying.

 

The DNS settings are located in the Internet (WAN) settings part of the router GUI.

Changing the LAN to 172.16.X.X. is located in the LAN settings part of the router GUI.

 

One setting should have no impact on the other.


It was a glitch in the Orbi firmware. For some reason, changing the Orbi base IP address was not changing the DHCP Server IP address range to match, which it should have been changing. As a result, I was getting a pop-up error from the Orbi that the Orbi base IP address wasn't in the DHCP range.

After I got out of the Orbi Setup pages and got back in, the DHCP Server octets were changing to match as I modified my Orbi base IP address.

I've seen this happen with the Orbi before, but very rarely.

 

I have started reconfiguring my network to the 172.16.xx.xx range.

Message 17 of 21
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Master

Re: Orbi always loses configuration after cable modem reset

OK. I hope it works for you.

Message 18 of 21
Highlighted
Apprentice

Re: Orbi always loses configuration after cable modem reset


@st_shaw wrote:

 

Your cable modem is hardwired with an IP address of 192.168.100.1.  This is described in the manual here:  http://www.downloads.netgear.com/files/GDC/CM400/CM400_UM_17July2015.pdf

 

With your Orbi setup to use a LAN IP of 192.168.1.1 and a subnet mask of 255.255.0.0 you have included the address space used by the modem in you LAN and created a conflict between the Orbi LAN and the cable modem's IP address. I'm not certain what's happening exactly, but it's very likely this is the source of your issue with Orbi sensing a conflict and resetting the LAN to 10.0.0.1.

 

You should change your Orbi LAN subnet to something different, like 172.16.X.X.

 


Thanks, @st_shaw - I've used the 172.16.xx.xx range for a few days now, and forced quite a few cable modem resets (without powering off my Orbi). The Orbi seems to be keeping its configuration settings without getting messed up anymore. I'm glad you told me about this, and your theory that the 192.168.100.1 IP address of the cable modem confusing the Orbi seems valid.

That said ... It seems like there is still a bug in the Orbi firmware that causes this to occur. I have had at least a half-dozen different WiFi routers (some of them by Netgear) connected to the same or similar cable modems with a 192.168.100.1 fixed IP address, and I have never run into the lost configuration settings or router IP address reassignment that I have seen with the Orbi. The Orbi is getting confused where no other WiFi router has.


I don't know what it would take to get this raised as an issue with Netgear to get a firmware fix implemented.

Thanks again for the great help!

 

AzJazz

Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 19 of 21
Highlighted
Master

Re: Orbi always loses configuration after cable modem reset

I'm happy to hear this solved your problem.  Regarding a possible bug... I don't believe it's a bug. It's a feature and Orbi is operating as designed.  The issue occurred because you initially set your LAN subnet to encompass the IP range used by your modem.  The reason you haven't seen the behavior with other routers is because they do not have the feature of detecting a conflict between the WAN and LAN.  I think you have demonstrated that the feature can have some unintended consequences though, and perhaps the feature causes more trouble than it saves. 

Message 20 of 21
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Re: Orbi always loses configuration after cable modem reset

hi

 

most modern routers now have the ip conflict resolution , its pretty standard and needed in what are complex systems some have these days

Message 21 of 21