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Re: Access issues after upgrade to Win10 V1803 (I think it's a Windows issue, not a NAS one).

Sandshark
Sensei

Access issues after upgrade to Win10 V1803 (I think it's a Windows issue, not a NAS one).

OK.  So in the last week, Microsoft has upgraded my three Windows machines (two desktops and a laptop) to V1803.  After the upgrade, only one of the desktops is acting strangely.  All three machines are Win10 Pro, and the two desktops are plugged into the same switch.  I know none of this is a ReadyNAS problem, but I tend to get a lot better help here than on the Microsoft forums (where cluesless users add useless advice and the Microsoft reps always seem to want to blame the user).  All of this (except as noted) is new after the Windows upgrade and none of them occur on the other two machines.  The NAS is on OS6.9.2, but it's hard to believe that's an issue since the other computers have no problems.

 

I cannot access my NAS by Name (RN516A), but can via IP address.  RN516 shows up under "Network", but clicking on it opens a blank window and after a long pause, Windows says is cannot access \\RN512A and suggests I check spelling, etc.  Before I changed them to use the IP address, my mapped drive letters did the same.  If I turn on my backup NAS, it behaves the same way.  It doesn't even prompt for a password.  The very first time I tried to access the backup, Windows did prompt for a password.  That may have happened on the primary as well and I just don't remember.  NET VIEW \\RN516A also cannot find the path and gives a system error 53..

 

I deleted all mapped drives (net use * /delete), remapped them using the NAS IP address, and I can again use the mapped drives.  But when I go to move a file, I get a Windows security warning that my internet security settings suggest that one or more of the files may be harmful and I have to click OK for every single file.  The backup unit has no mapped drives.

 

This is the only thing I don't know wasn't there before, but I suspect it wasn't because I had no drive mappings using the NAS IP address.  NET USE shows me an undesignated (no drive letter) connection to 192.169.0.42\IPC$.  That is my NAS's address, and Microsoft says this is the "Interprecess Communications Share", apparely linked to anonomous users, even though I never use anonomous access.

 

I have done the NET USE * /DELETE.  I have verified there are no credentials in the credentials manager for the NAS (there never have been).  I have rebooted the PC and NAS several times.  I've lowered user account control (though it was not changed).  I've diabled my security software.  In case it maters, the login name on all PC's is the same on all PC's and the same as my NAS account.  Windows password is the same on all PC's but not the same as NAS password, so password prompt has always appeared when accessing the NAS.

 

Any suggestions?  I've got things mostly workng except for that damned security prompt, but I'd like to get things back to normal.  And I'd especially like to know why the \IPC$ connection is there and why it remains (though "disconnected") even when the NAS is off.

Model: RN51600|ReadyNAS 516 6-Bay
Message 1 of 21
StephenB
Guru

Re: Access issues after upgrade to Win10 V1803 (I think it's a Windows issue, not a NAS one).

FWIW, I had some similar issues after the last windows update, and ended up remapping the drive letters to IP address.

 


@Sandshark wrote:

 

But when I go to move a file, I get a Windows security warning that my internet security settings suggest that one or more of the files may be harmful and I have to click OK for every single file. 

 


Open "Internet Options" on the PC, and click on "security".  Then select "local intranet", click on the "sites" button, followed by "advanced".  Enter your LAN subnet into the "add this website into the zone" dialog - for instance 192.168.0.* 

 

That should eliminate the warning after you close and reopen your file explorer windows.

 


@Sandshark wrote:

 

This is the only thing I don't know wasn't there before, but I suspect it wasn't because I had no drive mappings using the NAS IP address.  NET USE shows me an undesignated (no drive letter) connection to 192.169.0.42\IPC$.  That is my NAS's address, and Microsoft says this is the "Interprecess Communications Share", apparely linked to anonomous users, even though I never use anonomous access.

 


192.168.0.42?

 

 IPC$ used for anonymous requests (like enumerating SMB shares with net use nas-ip-address), not so much with anonymous access.  You shouldn't be seeing a persistent connection to it though, normally it doesn't show up at all in net use.  Maybe one of your net use or net view queries is hanging?   Does this still show up after a reboot?

 

 

 

 

 

Message 2 of 21
TheEther
Guru

Re: Access issues after upgrade to Win10 V1803 (I think it's a Windows issue, not a NAS one).

This could be the result of Microsoft deprecating SMB1.  The link offers some suggestions for restoring some of the functionality.  Microsoft is trying very hard to sunset SMB1, so even those tips might not work.

Message 3 of 21
StephenB
Guru

Re: Access issues after upgrade to Win10 V1803 (I think it's a Windows issue, not a NAS one).


@TheEther wrote:

This could be the result of Microsoft deprecating SMB1.  


No.  Sandshark runs OS 6 on his ReadyNAS, and that supports SMB 3.

Message 4 of 21
TheEther
Guru

Re: Access issues after upgrade to Win10 V1803 (I think it's a Windows issue, not a NAS one).


@StephenB wrote:

@TheEther wrote:

This could be the result of Microsoft deprecating SMB1.  


No.  Sandshark runs OS 6 on his ReadyNAS, and that supports SMB 3.


Sure.  But one of the functions lost with SMB1 is the Computer Browser, which uses NetBIOS.  That means that displaying computers through the Windows Explorer as well as the NET VIEW command no longer work.  This is consistent with Sandshark's symptoms.

Message 5 of 21
StephenB
Guru

Re: Access issues after upgrade to Win10 V1803 (I think it's a Windows issue, not a NAS one).


@TheEther wrote:


Sure.  But one of the functions lost with SMB1 is the Computer Browser, which uses NetBIOS.  That means that displaying computers through the Windows Explorer as well as the NET VIEW command no longer work.  This is consistent with Sandshark's symptoms.


Not completely consistent. OS 6 supports WS-Discovery, so \\RN512A in the file address bar should work with Windows 10.  It's easy to test though, all @Sandshark would need to do is enable the SMB 1.0 client on one of the systems, reboot and then retest.

 

Though in my experience, the computer browser has always been a bit hit-or-miss with linux systems.  I reserve the NAS IP addresses, and generally use them on my home network.

Message 6 of 21
Sandshark
Sensei

Re: Access issues after upgrade to Win10 V1803 (I think it's a Windows issue, not a NAS one).

If it were linked to SMB1, I don't get why it wouldn't have the same effect on all three computers.  But I can try enabling it.

 

I thought I had previously set my local internet as "sites allowed", but maybe whatever caused this reset it.  If I can get rid of that damned prompt, I can live with what I've got.  But it still makes me wonder why I have to.

 

I know I did a NET USE on one of the other computers and it didn't add an IPC$ connection.

 

That's the odd thing I can't figure out.  Why did this happen on only one of three computers?   But thatnks for the suggestions.  I'll let you know what more I find out.

Message 7 of 21
TheEther
Guru

Re: Access issues after upgrade to Win10 V1803 (I think it's a Windows issue, not a NAS one).

@StephenB:
WS-Discovery is different from NetBIOS name resolution. You can see in this link how WS-Discovery is listed separately from NetBIOS.  I don't think WS-Discovery is enabled by default.

 

@Sandshark

Read the Microsoft article. Depending on various circumstances, Windows 10 can decide to remove SMBv1 support. For example, a clean installation will remove client support if it is not used after 15 days. OTOH, a system upgraded from an earlier version of Windows won't uninstall it. This could explain why you see different behavior on your computers.

 

Here is the full link:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4034314/smbv1-is-not-installed-by-default-in-windows

Message 8 of 21
StephenB
Guru

Re: Access issues after upgrade to Win10 V1803 (I think it's a Windows issue, not a NAS one).


@TheEther wrote:

@StephenB:
WS-Discovery is different from NetBIOS name resolution.

I know it is different.  When I expand into "network" in windows file explorer on Windows 10, select "details" as the view, and then add the "Discovery Method" column, I see the NAS showing up in the computer list with the "discovery method" set to WSD.  It also shows up as a storage device also (discovery method SSDP).

 

I haven't done any special to enable this, so I am thinking that it works by default.

 

I do have SMB v1 enabled on the PCs though, so that might color the result.

Message 9 of 21
Sandshark
Sensei

Re: Access issues after upgrade to Win10 V1803 (I think it's a Windows issue, not a NAS one).

The computer that's behaving differently was clean loaded with an early public release version of Win10 and the others were upgrades from Win7 a few months later.  Maybe that's a clue.  But SMBV1 doesn't seem to be the issue.  It was actually on on both desktops and off on the laptop.  The IPC$ connections didn't persist through a power cycle.

Message 10 of 21
GODSROGUE
Aspirant

Re: Access issues after upgrade to Win10 V1803 (I think it's a Windows issue, not a NAS one).

I did this;

map network drive

down on bottom "connect to website to store docs files"

entered my local server path "ftp://admin@192.168.x.x/"  which i obtained from my cel phone file explorer. promted for NAS login creds and boom.

it worked

 

 

Message 11 of 21
Sandshark
Sensei

Re: Access issues after upgrade to Win10 V1803 (I think it's a Windows issue, not a NAS one).

Yes, I can access the NAS using the IP address using SMB (I don't know why you'd resort to FTP), I just can't access it via it's name.  That's not an issue with mapped drives, I just re-mapped them using the IP instead of the name.  But it's an issue for shares I don't (and don't want to) map.  I can no longer click on the NAS in "Network" and access it.  What's driving me nuts is that the computer clearly sees the NAS on the network, since it's there in the "Network" Explorer window.  But when I try to access it, it says it can't find it (not that I don't have permission to use it), and it takes a long time to decide that; as if it's trying a lot of options.  It never even asks me for a password, whihc would be the normal next step since I've not stored one (and don't want to)..

Message 12 of 21
sos4net
Tutor

Re: Access issues after upgrade to Win10 V1803 (I think it's a Windows issue, not a NAS one).

Did you resolve your issue--having same exact symptoms with 2 Windows 10 PCs-build 1803. Thanks!

Message 13 of 21
Sandshark
Sensei

Re: Access issues after upgrade to Win10 V1803 (I think it's a Windows issue, not a NAS one).

Nope, and it "migrated" to my other PC's.  Oddly, I put a NAS I don't generally use online, and I could access it by name with no issue.  And I have one machine that can dual-boot to Win7, which has no issue.

Message 14 of 21
sos4net
Tutor

Re: Access issues after upgrade to Win10 V1803 (I think it's a Windows issue, not a NAS one).

All of our Windows 7 PCs can access it fine. The new Windows 10 PCs (Windows 10 was installed when purchased) cannot access it by name (just IP). However, the one we upgraded from Windows 7 to Wins10 can access it by name.

Message 15 of 21
schumaku
Guru

Re: Access issues after upgrade to Win10 V1803 (I think it's a Windows issue, not a NAS one).

Just to avoid any confusion: Do these Windows 10 systems in question have any **** 3rd party Internet Security packages on board?

Message 16 of 21
sos4net
Tutor

Re: Access issues after upgrade to Win10 V1803 (I think it's a Windows issue, not a NAS one).

We are using ESET ENDPOINT SECURITY on all systems, including our Windows 7 PCs (over 40 of those) and they can access to the NAS by UNC Hostname fine.  All Windows10 and Windows 7 systems can access the NAS by IP address in Windows Explorer and the WebGUI. This seems to be related to SMB and or NFS settings that Windows10 will like.

Message 17 of 21
schumaku
Guru

Re: Access issues after upgrade to Win10 V1803 (I think it's a Windows issue, not a NAS one).


@sos4net wrote:

We are using ESET ENDPOINT SECURITY on all systems, including our Windows 7 PCs (over 40 of those) and they can access to the NAS by UNC Hostname fine.  All Windows10 and Windows 7 systems can access the NAS by IP address in Windows Explorer and the WebGUI. This seems to be related to SMB and or NFS settings that Windows10 will like.


No, this does proof the WS-Discovery (WSD) based name resolution does not work on your Eset Endpoint Security "protected" Windows 10 systems when attempting to access a shared folder on a device properly announced. 

Windows 7 most likely works because you still use NetBIOS there - for ReadyNAS discovery and for the name resolution. 

Have shown you several times where to check the discovery method in Windows Explorer - up to you.

And sorry, my trust to any of these Internet Security vendors is ways below zero - beyond of a "good feeling" KPI for the management having security measurements in place, the effective value is limited - and the risk that these security companies are breaking things are huge.

Message 18 of 21
sos4net
Tutor

Re: Access issues after upgrade to Win10 V1803 (I think it's a Windows issue, not a NAS one).

We uninstalled ESET on one of the Windows10 PCs and the problem persist--please explain.  Also, we have a Windows 10PC that was an upgrade from Windows7 and is works fine--with ESET. Network discovery has always been ON. They are on a domain and can connect to shares on servers and other PCs-just not the NAS by name. If you do some research you'll see that this is a common problem  with other manufacturers os NAS units (Synology for example). 

Message 19 of 21
Sandshark
Sensei

Re: Access issues after upgrade to Win10 V1803 (I think it's a Windows issue, not a NAS one).

Today, two of my NASes have decided they can be accessed by name.  One still can't.  An interesting thing I noted is that when the user name and password window opened, it had in red near the bottom "The user name and password are incorrect", as if Windows were trying to pass improper credentials to it first (nulls, maybe?).

 

My NASes all show up in the Windows Explorer Network window as discovered by WSD.  NetBIOS is enabled as well, just in case.  One NAS has SMB Plus installed, the others do not.  I run Norton Security, and the first thing I tried was turning it off.  Besides, why would that prevent access by name and not by IP address?  It matters not if I double-click on the icon in Windows Explorer, type in the name in an Explorer window, or try to map them to a drive in Explorer or a command prompt (including with a user name and password).  When it's not working, Windows takes a good long while to think about it and, never having even offered me an opportunity to enter a user name and password, finally decides it cannot access the device.

 

One thing I have done recently is booted my dual-boot machine into Windows 7 because the Win10 installation kept crashing.  That sounds something like it is really using NetBIOS and needed a master browser, but that doesn't explain why one NAS is still unaccessable by name and why the discovery method is listed as WSD.  The Win7 machine can access all by name just fine.

Message 20 of 21
sos4net
Tutor

Re: Access issues after upgrade to Win10 V1803 (I think it's a Windows issue, not a NAS one).

Adding the IPadressofNAS  Hostname  to the Widnows 10 host file seems to have resolved my issue so far.  Example:

 

192.168.0.1  nasname

 

directions on editing host file here:  https://www.thewindowsclub.com/hosts-file-in-windows

 

Message 21 of 21
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