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RR4360X - RAID 60 volume size incorrect

pmcwilliam
Aspirant

RR4360X - RAID 60 volume size incorrect

I have a ReadyNAS RR4360X. It had 36 x 12 TB Seagate ST12000NE007 drives installed (10.9 TB actual space)

Running RAID 60 with 3 Raid Sets, volume showed data 265 TB

I then added 9 x 12 TB Seagate ST12000NE007 drives for a total of 45 drives in 3 RAID sets

Completed the expand operation to only get 279 TB of space

Raid calculators show that I should have approx 425 TB of space

 

Attached image shows that RAID set 3 has unallocated space of 135 TB but I cannot see how to get the unallocated space to become allocated

 

Have updated firmware and restarted

There are no expand or other options listed under the RAID sets

 

Any help would be apprieated

 

Thank you

 

 

 

Message 1 of 15
mdgm
Virtuoso

Re: RR4360X - RAID 60 volume size incorrect


@pmcwilliam wrote:

I cannot see how to get the unallocated space to become allocated


What you are seeing is normal.

Add data to your data volume and that space should become allocated as needed. This is how BTRFS works by design.

 

It's not recommended to fill the data volume too full though.

Message 2 of 15
pmcwilliam
Aspirant

Re: RR4360X - RAID 60 volume size incorrect

Thank you for your reply

My issue is that I cannot add space to my iSCSI LUN's or create new iSCSI LUN's because the unit does not think it has free space

So while it might be normal if I was adding data to the volume, I am trying to expand iSCSI

I have attached screen shots, I do see that under RAID Group #3 some space has moved from Unallocated to Data Allocated

 

Any thoughts on how to expand current LUN's or create new iSCSI LUN's when the unit does not think it has any free space?

 

Thanks

Paul

 

Message 3 of 15
mdgm
Virtuoso

Re: RR4360X - RAID 60 volume size incorrect

Edit: Hmmm. Re-read your post.

This is a bit strange. Maybe if you filled up the metadata on the first 2 layers (create a new share with lots of small files) then some metadata will have to be allocated on RAID layer 3 that might change things.

Metadata contains data about data. Some of this is fixed per file no matter whether your file is 1KB or 1TB which is why adding lots of small files is best.

I wonder if metadata needs to be allocated on a layer for it to be used for iSCSI LUNs.

I would make sure your backup is up to date before trying that.
Message 4 of 15
pmcwilliam
Aspirant

Re: RR4360X - RAID 60 volume size incorrect

The device is being used as an iSCSI target for Veeam backups

The Netgear is reporting that I have 297.08 TB of space with 3.84 KB free

There are 3 iSCSI LUNs, thick provisioned

LUN 1 40 TB - Drive shows but not details or shown

LUN 2 100 TB - Windows shows - 99 TB of space with 29 TB free

LUN 3 139 TB - Windows shows 120 TB of space with 1.44 TB free, 20 TB not yet allocated

280 TB are allocated to iSCSI LUNs

 

iSCSI target, Dell R630 Server 2012 R2 STD

RAID Group 3 on the Netgear shows 128 TB unallocated (see image)

Somehow this data is not allocated to the Data Volume and is not available for use

And I'm using space on the device when I don't have any other shares or snapshots enabled

 

 

 

 

Message 5 of 15
StephenB
Guru

Re: RR4360X - RAID 60 volume size incorrect


@pmcwilliam wrote:

Somehow this data is not allocated to the Data Volume and is not available for use

 


I think you are misunderstanding what allocated/unallocated means.  

 

Free space is a somewhat slippery concept with the BTRFS file system.  

 

BTRFS allocates space for your data (i.e. your LUNS) and metatdata in "chunks".  If a chunk is only partially filled with data, there is free space in the chunk - but it is wasted. If a chunk holds no data, it is entirely free space, and not allocated.  FWIW, this wasted space can be reclaimed by running a balance (which will consolidate used space, reducing the amount of unused space in the allocated chunks).

 

So your screen shot says that the full size of your data volume is 426.37 TiB (297.97+128.40).  This breaks down into

297.97 TiB Used space (actually used by files - in this case LUNs)

~0 Allocated-Used  of "wasted" free space, that isn't actually available for use.  

128.40 TiB Unallocated free space that can be used for new LUNs or shares.

 

I am a bit puzzled on why the metadata total doesn't add up.  That is, the three groups have 6.08 GB of allocated space for metadata between them,  but the total allocation is reported as 3.04 GB.  Not sure that is worth chasing down, but you could take a look with ssh if you want to try.

 


@pmcwilliam wrote:

The Netgear is reporting that I have 297.08 TB of space with 3.84 KB free


Where are you seeing this (particularly the 3.84 KB free part)?  Can you post that screen shot?

 

 

Message 6 of 15
pmcwilliam
Aspirant

Re: RR4360X - RAID 60 volume size incorrect

StephenB thanks for your response

 

I may be misunderstanding what allocated/unallocted means

Attached screen shot, from Admin System, overview

Show data volume with 384.00 KB free of 297.08 TB

My previous screen show shows that my volume should be 426 TB (as you point out) however it is not, I only have 297 TB

My iSCSI LUN's are thick provisioned and only consume 280 TB of the 297 TB

Adding data to the iSCSI LUN's should not make less space on the SAN, as stated I am not using any other storage on the device,; however, I have slowly been consuming the 17 TB of free space on the SAN

To add to this, one of my iSCSI LUN's is now not available on the host server and my backups fail because they cannot write new files to the iSCSI LUN's

 

Seems like I am going to have to rebuild the array from scratch

 

Message 7 of 15
StephenB
Guru

Re: RR4360X - RAID 60 volume size incorrect


@pmcwilliam wrote:

 

Seems like I am going to have to rebuild the array from scratch

 


You might try paid support first.  They might be able to fix it remotely.

Message 8 of 15
pmcwilliam
Aspirant

Re: RR4360X - RAID 60 volume size incorrect

Thanks StephenB

I don't currently have a paid support contract, I was hoping Netgear would do incident support, but I guess I wll purchase a new contract to see if they can assist

 

 

Message 9 of 15
StephenB
Guru

Re: RR4360X - RAID 60 volume size incorrect


@pmcwilliam wrote:

 

 I was hoping Netgear would do incident support, but I guess I wll purchase a new contract to see if they can assist

 


You could ask about per-incident support when you contact them.

 

Of course starting from scratch is possible, but hopefully isn't needed (given the size of the array).

Message 10 of 15
StephenB
Guru

Re: RR4360X - RAID 60 volume size incorrect

BTW, my thinking here is that the RAID array itself is the proper size, but that the BTRFS file system somehow wasn't expanded to fill the full array.

 

Also, I've looked again at your numbers.

 

You are saying that your volume size is actually 279 TiB (300 TB).  You are also saying that you started with 36x12 TB RAID60 (also using three RAID groups).

 

Three RAID6 groups results in 6 disks used for redundancy, so the volume size with 36x12TB should have been 360 TB (326 TiB).  So even before expanding to 45x12TB the file system was too small.

 

However, 36x10TB would have yielded a 300 TB (279 TiB) volume. Is it possible that the array originally was 36x10TB, and then expanded to 36x12TB?  If so, it looks like that first expansion didn't complete correctly.  

 

Message 11 of 15
pmcwilliam
Aspirant

Re: RR4360X - RAID 60 volume size incorrect

StephenB,

 

I agree that the RAID array is the correct size but the expansion did not occur at the file system

I started with 36 x 12 TB drive, RAID 60 in 3 RAID groups. 2 RAID groups had 15 drives and the 3rd had 6 drives

The drives are Seagate 12TB IronWolf, which report to the system as 10.9 TB

Using an online RAID Calculator, the above numbers should get me 327 TB

However, I think I only got about 280 TB, which would account for 30 drives in 2 RAID sets

Then I added 9 more drives to the 3rd RAID set which should get me 425 TB

As we see from the first screen shot there is 428 TB of space available but only 297 TB is allocated to the data volume

 

Further issue, one of the iSCSI LUN's is now showing as RAW on the Windows server, so it appears I have lost part of my backups already

Will be trying to call NetGear this morning to see about incident support

 

 

Thanks for your help and suggestions

 

 

Message 12 of 15
StephenB
Guru

Re: RR4360X - RAID 60 volume size incorrect


@pmcwilliam wrote:

StephenB,

 

I agree that the RAID array is the correct size but the expansion did not occur at the file system

I started with 36 x 12 TB drive, RAID 60 in 3 RAID groups. 2 RAID groups had 15 drives and the 3rd had 6 drives

 

 


FWIW, you don't really need to use the RAID calculator.   2 disks in each group are for redundancy, so you can get the full size in TB by subtracting those out from the total.  The OS partition on each disk (4 GB) is in the noise. The system reports drive size in TiB, and you can easily convert TB to TiB in google.  For instance, enter "300 TB in TiB".

 

But I am a bit confused on your starting configuration which used unequal sized RAID groups.  I don't think you can use RAID-0 to stripe across unequal groups (though you should be able to concatenate them, but that isn't actually RAID60).  That might actually be part of the problem. 

Message 13 of 15
pmcwilliam
Aspirant

Re: RR4360X - RAID 60 volume size incorrect

There is no way to contact support for this type of device unless you have a paid support contract, so incident support is not available

I have purchased a contract and have Netgear support working on it now

Message 14 of 15
pmcwilliam
Aspirant

Re: RR4360X - RAID 60 volume size incorrect

I know I don't need to use the calculator, just always have (force of habit)

I have never used RAID 60 before this unit, and I did not understand that it would auto configure everything in RAID 60

In hindsight I should have stopped and removed the 6 drives from RAID set 3 and started over until I could add the additional 9 drives, but I did not

 

I have purchased a support contract and Netgear is working on it now, they agree something is not right

Hopefully they can fix it without having to start from scratch, I don't really want to lose all my backup data and start over

 

 

Message 15 of 15
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