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Re: Readynas 102 extremely slow after update to 6.4.1
Hi
thanks sorry, I didn't look who you were responding to.
i have other issues too.
when I plug a USB hard drive into a rear socket two shares appear. One is correctly named as the hard drive and the second is the name given to a usb stick I would normally plug into a front socket.
Re: Readynas 102 extremely slow after update to 6.4.1
I tried that initially with no change. But thought i would disable it again and then restart the server - success. Folders now load quickly again over SMB.
Will leave AV off until the next update. Thanks all.
Re: Readynas 102 extremely slow after update to 6.4.1
It looks like there are multiple different issues being posted in this thread which does make it difficult to follow. When lots of users are posting in a thread it is difficult to provide more than general advice. Problems may appear to be the same to end users but have very different causes.
YorkBoy as you have anti-virus disabled your issue is a different one. Support has recommended you try 6.4.2 beta, but you can wait for the production release and follow up with support on that.
I certainly wouldn't recommend never updating the firmware. Firmware updates include bug fixes, security fixes and other changes which are beneficial. You may wish to visit the Community to see other user's feedback on firmware before updating to a release that you cannot downgrade from.
Re: Readynas 102 extremely slow after update to 6.4.1
I have client that just call because they upgrade to 6.4.2 and the system started running slow. It is good that I found this forum and ask them to disable AV. It looks like it helped with the slowness. So I guess this has been a problem for sometime and never been fix. I would like some feedback on why it is so hard to solve this problem? I have been using Netgear Readynas for 10+ years at home and also installed for serveral clients. Great product for small business and normally works as required.
I think this started last year so over a 6 month problem that a company the size and quality of Netgear can find a solution? Please take care of the users that buy and support you by supporting us.
Re: Readynas 102 extremely slow after update to 6.4.1
Recently upgraded to 6.4.2 from 6.4.1 but no dramatic improvement, the thing is still much slower than it was when on 6.2.5.
As you say I can't believe how long this has taken to correct. I am advised by Netgear that my system needs a firmware update back in October and the NAS since then has run terribly.
I also seems crazy to me that if Netgear can't guarantee their firmware is bug free that users can't roll back to earlier times.
Netgear also need to understand that many users like me have businesses to run and better things to do than to find work arounds for their faulty firmware.
In future once the system is running properly again I will ignore all futher firmware updates and secondly when my NAS or anything needs replacing it most definitely will not be Netgear.
They have lost me as a customer and I have said so in many reviews.
As I have said before, we must be thankful that they don't write software for aircraft.
Re: Readynas 102 extremely slow after update to 6.4.1
KCurtis our engineers are working on a solution to the AV performance issue. There is a potential fix which we could arrange for you to try. Send me a PM if interested.
YorkBoy sometimes there are one way improvements made where it is not safe to subsequently downgrade (e.g. if a downgrade is likely to lead to data corruption we would block it). When we make such changes we clearly advise in the Release Notes that it is not possible to downgrade. Once you have upgraded to 6.4.0 (or later) you cannot downgrade to firmware older than 6.4.0. Some users have found ways to go back to older firmware than 6.4.0 but you would need to do a factory default.
No company can guarantee that a firmware is "bug free". Even if it is at the time it is released an update to Microsoft Windows, Mac OS, iOS, Android, a web browser or something else will soon introduce a compatibility issue that needs addressing.
We have worked to address issues that some of our customers have encountered on 6.4.x and will continue to do so. For most firmware updates work smoothly and we'd strongly recommend running the latest firmware. Firmware updates include enhancements, bug fixes and security updates.
YorkBoy for business use we would recommend using a business class model e.g. RN312. The RN102 is a cost-effective device for the home. We have already advised on the community of the workaround to disable anti-virus, but as you don't use that you have a different issue to most who have experienced performance problems on 6.4.x so that would require separate troubleshooting. Can you attach a fresh set of logs to your case and also provide an update on your case to let the agent know when you've done that?
Re: Readynas 102 extremely slow after update to 6.4.1
As others have pointed out, you may well advise in the release notes that a downgrade isn't possible but the user doesn't see these when advised that a firmware update is available, you are asked if you wish to proceed that's all.
I accept that no company can guarantee bug free and that was perhaps unfair of me but 6.4. etc have hardly been a raging success judging by the comments the last few months.
Need to have the latest firmware, no thanks not anymore I'll take my chance thank you, it surely cannot be any worse than the last few months.
Need to have a business model. You know that really takes the biscuit. My business in my office premises has a server and I simply use the 102 for some work which I choose to carry out at home. Present storage about 140Gb of which perhaps 25Gb is current business. The rest some archived projects and personal data. However data is data, it's 1's and 0's nothing more so lets not make it seem that it's any more complex than that. The fact that I have some, note some, business data on my home machine doesn't alter the fact that it should work properly.
Last nights full back up via a USB 3 hard drive took slightly over 4 hours, previously up to October it would take around 1 hour. Thats not a network issue, that's the 102 backing up straight onto a WD hard drive in the lower rear socket.
In December all was arranged for Netgear to remotely access my unit to look at the issues. Agreed to this but despite requesting again and again never heard a thing. Wonderful customer service.
Let me ask you, if you had a recall on your car from the manufacturers and you took it into the garage for rectification and then on collecting the car you found it didn't run properly would you be happy to wait from October to February for it to be put right?
I really have lost my patience. I will move my data back to my old reliable Readynas V1 and then attempt to go back to 6.2.5 via a factory reset. If the 102 dies and has to be binned then quite frankly I couldn't give a jot.
Last nights full back up via a USB 3 hard drive took slightly over 4 hours, previously up to October it would take around 1 hour. Thats not a network issue, that's the 102 backing up straight onto a WD hard drive in the lower rear socket.
I have similar experience with backup to harddrive on USB connected to RN516. I regularly make a backup of /data to the USB drive of approx 4TB. It used to take less than a day up to and including 6.4.0. Since 6.4.1 and 6.4.2 it takes 4 days. Even with AV turned off.
Re: Readynas 102 extremely slow after update to 6.4.1
Oh I am fully aware that this is not a network issue, but I thank you for your comment.
However Netgear on looking at my logs just seem to want to grasp at straws pointing to a few errors I have on my network and which I have corrected even though those problems have always been there, certainly well before the problems occurred.
They just blantantly seem to ignore that up to and including 6.2.5 all was fine, since 6.4.0 I have had nothing but problems. Backups take four times as long, use of the front USB socket freezes the NAS.
I have found ways to work around the issue but quite frankly why should I.
As I have said repeatedly, if you had a recall on a car and after taking it into the garage found that the car ran poorly would you be prepared to wait 4 months (and perhaps more who knows) for them to deal with the problem? No reasonable person would.
And as I have said before, we must however be grateful that they don't write software for aircraft.....
Re: Readynas 102 extremely slow after update to 6.4.1
Hi
Yes it is supposedly possible to downgrade and the link given by the other contributor is correct.
Two things.
Ensure you throughly backup your data and as a precaution take two backups, I always do.
Netgear frown upon such a downgrade and I have raise dthis with them and have had nothing but unhelpful comments pointing out that downgrading to an earlier firmware could deprive me of fixes that are needed to keep my NAS working well. As if it's working perfectly now under 6.4.2 I would like to point out.
I wish Netgear would simply come clean, own up to a **bleep** up for us users and give us a reliable and tested way to downgrade. Everyone makes mistakes and I could have respect if they simply admitted to it, gave us a route to downgrade back to a reliable firmware while we wait for a tested update. All we get is a fudge and after five months of this they're starting to take the ....well you fill in the missing word.
Re: Readynas 102 extremely slow after update to 6.4.1
6.4.2 is a good release and we are working on 6.5.0 with some new features along with some further bug fixes, security fixes etc. which we expect to post a beta for soon.
There are some one way changes in 6.4.x and where a downgrade requires a factory reset we block it. Otherwise we would occasionally have users whose backup is not up to date downgrading and losing data.
If you downgrade the firmware and run into a minor software issue in the future, but have access to the UI to update the firmware, then one of the first suggestions will likely be to update the firmware. Furthermore the exceptions to support policy that may be made at our discretion when running into issues after updating to the latest firmware can't be made when running into issues on an old firmware release.
YorkBoy support should be in contact with you to discuss the next action steps. There are two issues that you have encountered which will need to be troubleshooted separately: 1. backup to a USB drive using the front USB port of the RN102 causes the NAS to become unresponsive 2. backups are very slow since 6.4.x
6.5.0 does include the work in progress on a fix for the performance issue related to the use of the anti-virus service. There are still a few remaining issues with that being worked on.
My experience with 6.4.1 and 6.4.2 is not so good. I only seem to be handling OS issue lately. I upgraded to 6.4.2, before copying 1 TB of critical data via Backup in Admin Page from a RN516 to a RN312, both in the same LAN on a Netgear 1Gb switch. This took weeks and held me back significantly in setting up my website. I couldn't even cancel the backup after it started because the Admin Pages were unresponsive. After the inital backup finally finished, I changed the backup to use rsync, to prevent the Admin Pages from freezing.
In addition I have a backup to rear USB on 516, that became very slow since 6.1.4. In older versions, full backup of 4 TB toke approx. 8 hours, now 4 days, while freezing up Admin Page and slowing network response dramatically! I had to switch to incremental backup, to avoid freezing up the system for 4 days during backup to USB.
YorkBoy support should be in contact with you to discuss the next action steps. There are two issues that you have encountered which will need to be troubleshooted separately: 1. backup to a USB drive using the front USB port of the RN102 causes the NAS to become unresponsive 2. backups are very slow since 6.4.x
Like YorkBoy, I still experience backup issues, as described above, so YorkBoy is not alone in this and I don't think it is exclusive to RN102. For me these are the main concerns:
Backup to USB drive using the rear USB port of the RN516 causes the NAS to become unresponsive. Backup speed has decreased significantly (4 TB takes 4 days, before 8 hours). The Admin Page cannot be reached (it tries to reload itself after progress bar) and access from network is very slow.
Backups between RNs are very slow in 6.4.2 and causes the originating NAS to become unresponsive. Backup speed is dramatically slow and 1 TB took weeks. The Admin Page cannot be reached (it tries to reload itself after progress bar) and access from network is very slow.
These issues occur while AV is switched off in 6.4.2.
6.5.0 does include the work in progress on a fix for the performance issue related to the use of the anti-virus service. There are still a few remaining issues with that being worked on.
Good to hear that there is progress on the AV issue, but that doesn't solve the backup issues YorkBoy and I (and probably more RN customers) experience.
Re: Readynas 102 extremely slow after update to 6.4.1
Reply to mdgm
6.4.2 is a good release.......sorry but I fell off my chair laughing at that one. It's like taking your car into a garage for a service and on collecting it you find that it continually cuts out and all the garage will tell you is that while in having it serviced they fitted you a tow bar free of charge. You can give me as many new features as you want, I just want all the original ones which worked to work again and I'm not the only one.
That comment beggars belief. Not its not a good release for us and I wish someone would acknowledge this instead of pretending all is fine and rosy.
Yes support have been in touch and when I have a moment they are going to remotely access my system to look at it. This by the way is what they were going to do back in December but it never happened despite me chasing this.
Re: Readynas 102 extremely slow after update to 6.4.1
Whilst you and some others are experiencing issues for most things are working well in 6.4.2.
YorkBoy you chose not to purchase the support needed for your case, then our agent handling the case was informed by a higher tier that there were some changes in 6.4.2 likely to help and you decided you'd rather not try a beta firmware release which delayed things further as we were unable to find out whether 6.4.2 resolved your problem or not till after you updated to it. We now have an agent looking into your system who will also try to reproduce the problem you are facing.
We have a fix for some UI problems whilst USB backup jobs are in progress in 6.5.0 which we expect to enter beta soon.
Re: Readynas 102 extremely slow after update to 6.4.1
Reply to mdgm
Again you take no respnsibility for your recommended firmware which has caused problems for myself and many others and to cap it all you expect users to pay for support so you can in my case look at my problems, find a solution and then circulate this in the next firmware update so all can benefit.
Again you flatly refuse to see that having had a working system ruined by a recommended firmware update I was reluctant to try a beta firmware which after all is beta for one reason only.
So lets ask a simple question, do you see that the problems caused to us users is our fault?
Again you take no respnsibility for your recommended firmware which has caused problems for myself and many others and to cap it all you expect users to pay for support so you can in my case look at my problems, find a solution and then circulate this in the next firmware update so all can benefit.
Again you flatly refuse to see that having had a working system ruined by a recommended firmware update I was reluctant to try a beta firmware which after all is beta for one reason only.
So lets ask a simple question, do you see that the problems caused to us users is our fault?
This really isn't going to go anywhere useful. mdgm isn't the person who decides on support pricing policies (and AFAIK none of the folks who do are active here). Plus as a Netgear employee he isn't going to publicly disagree with policies or blame other employees/departments (and you wouldn't do that either in your own company).
What he can and does do is forward information (including customer issues) to others inside of Netgear. And he personally helps many people here who are not entitled to any support w/o charge.
-Did 6.4.0 firmware destabilize a lot of users?
Clearly yes.
-Did 6.4.1/6.4.2 resolve your major issues?
Clearly no. But they resolved enough issues for others that they were worth releasing. Just read the release notes.
Everyone sees that more fixes are needed, and hammering at the 6.4.0 mis-steps over and over won't speed anything up.
Re: Readynas 102 extremely slow after update to 6.4.1
I am fully aware that mdgm isn't Netgear but he is an employee of Netgear and it's through him that I regret I have to vent my feelings. After all mdgm is expressing views and opinions that are Netgears so in return he'll simply have to hear mine. That unfortunately is life. If you don't like the heat then stay out of the kitchen is the saying.
I accept that there are support policies and if my unit was faulty or if my unit was in need of some service attention outside of warranty then like any consumer device I would fully expect to pay for it.
But again to repeat myself for the umpteenth time, up until 6.4.0 my NAS like so many others was working just fine. I repeat just fine.
I go to the admin page and I am advised that there is a firmware update for my NAS, there is no warning, there is nothing to tell me that upgrading to 6.4.0 won't allow me to easily reverse the procedure. I proceed. From then all backups fail and the use of the front socket freezes the NAS.
Your, sorry Netgears attitude is that somehow this problem is my fault and my responsibility.
Then when in desperation I ask for help Netgear want me to enter into a support arrangement so I pay for Netgear to investigate a problem caused by Netgears recommended firmware update. Can you not see the total injustice of this?
Fortunately later firmware updates enable backups to be taken using the rear sockets but strangely not the front socket, but these are now taking four times as long for me and for others on here they either totally freeze the NAS or simply do not work.
When previously I have made comments that if I ever get my NAS working again I will not bother with firmware updates I am told that I should always update my firmware in order to benefit from fixes and enhancements. Personally I and many others do not consider that months of sub standard performance and wasted hours of our time finding work arounds could possibly be construed as an enhancement...............
I can see that this is a totally pointless exercise and users like myself are simply left to wait until one day a firmware update will provide a fix. There is no point in me wasting any more time on this.
Re: Readynas 102 extremely slow after update to 6.4.1
corinbishop
Like you I am appalled by Netgears attitude to this.
Recently a Netgear engineer has advised me that on testing a 102 they too have discovered that backups take far longer under 6.4.0 than 6.2.5.....which says an awful lot about their testing of their firmware prior to release. That revelation also comes 5 months after I first raised the matter. How long does all this take?
I too want to go back to 6.2.5 but apparently it isn't without risk. So be warned.
Personally given that there are so many issues you would think that common sense would prevail and we would be given a route to enable this. However common sense seems to be lacking.
Good luck and let us know.
You might like to follow another thread, look this up:-
Readynas 102 not backing up and freezing after upgrade to 6.4.2
Re: Readynas 102 extremely slow after update to 6.4.1
Hi John,
I do agree that this has not been a good upgrade by Netgear. When planning a firware release that is non-downgradable it needs to be tested above and beyond normal levels. It's clear that it's not been tested. Even when my machine got back on line again I've not seen one single benefit to 6.4 over 6.2.
I've spent so much valuable time (I'm self employed) on the problems with 6.4+ as well as had my workflow slowed down considerbly. It's just left me diappointed and frustrated.
I will be downgrading to 6.2.5. I actually have an unboxed, RN104 here which I will bring up to 6.2.5, wipe and move over the disks and restore from backup. It will be brand new. I'll then try the downgrade procedure on the current machine and see if it works (with fresh disks). However I won't use the current machine as a primary server ever again. They will only be for secondary, non-essential backups.
I just borrowed a friends synology machine for a test and even though it's an old model (5 years old) it still blew the RN104 away. So I'm not spending any more money (sadly) on netgear. I'm putting money aside for a new synology server in the summer. I won't be recommending netgear to my colleagues anymore (I'm a photographer who also does IT consultancy for a load of other photographers - I've know of at least 22 other photographers who've bought netgear on my recommendation, luckily I've told them all not to upgrade from 6.2.5!).
My current machine won't boot in normal mode now. My previous support case has been closed so I will have to pay to open another. I think you can pretty much take for granted that opening another support case won't fix the problems. I'm not taking the risk wasting more money.
Re: Readynas 102 extremely slow after update to 6.4.1
The sad thing is that based on the attitude towards users generally they appear not to give a jot.
I use a 102 and mentioned that I have business data on it which was met with the reply that a 102 is not suitable for business use. That really annoyed me. Grasp at any straw it seems rather than man up and just be honest. Actually my 102 is a home machine on which I have some business data is the truth as I said data is data, it's 1's and 0's the machine should still work properly. I am self employed and have servers at my premises. Would I use Netgear in my offices, no never, not a chance in hell based on this debacle.
My 102 is under warranty and speaking to someone I know in consumer law he says that based on my experience this firmware has rendered it unfit for purpose. I'm seriously wondering whether to follow that up.
Its a shame, made worse by almost total silence from Netgear.
