Just downloaded the latest release V1.9.1.12 and noticed in the official release notes from Netgear it states as fix 'Continious Improvement in wireless connection stability'..Dosent spefically makre reference to discconections but that sounds like a promising fix. Wonder if and when people update if they post if they have had discconnections (ios or Andriod) since installing V1.9.1.12 then we may know if its been fixed permanently

Netgear Moderators, I would like to attempt one last method to fix these multiple problems with the Orbi product. Rather than complaining, and throwing away my $600 investment, perhaps the Netgear engineers and developers would be perceptive to suggestions which I am sure can resolve some (if not all) of these problems. First, let me say Thank You! Thank you for your attempts to create an appealing looking product. It doesn’t look like a science project gone wrong with 6 antennas and 10 LED lights. It doesn’t cause my guest to ask me, “What is that weird looking thing”. Thank you for your attempts to innovate and solve the large home WIFI coverage problem. Thank you for the speed. Yes, its fast! With all that you made right, some portions of the Orbi product are missing the mark. I believe I may know what you are overlooking. You tried to create an EASY, SIMPLE, and high tech product that could be used by anyone, especially non-technical consumers. Unfortunately, what you “may” be missing is the reality that no one solution for WIFI exist for everyone. Therefore, other WIFI OEMs allow access to advance settings enabling consumer to tweak and tune the product to their specific use case and environment. Homes, buildings come in a large variety of sizes, floor plans, building materials and other variables which can cause interference from other locations. Possibly home appliances and other devices which may not “play friendly” with Orbi, despite your best attempts to find the one configuration that works for everyone. It’s just not possible! Hence, I ask of you. I plead with you. Beg of you! Stop trying to make Orbi work for everyone using your locked-in configurations. Allow some flexibility! Here are my suggestions which have proven to be affective for all of you competitors. Many of these suggestions have been posted in your” ideas” area forum. We must assume you are too busy, or have somehow over looked these suggestions. Allow the 2.4G and 5G radio SSIDs to be separated. All other OEMs which use any type of “smartconnect” ability allow that feature to be disabled. Because it doesn’t always work for EVERYONE. There are too many client devices in this world. 2 devices may work, and 2 may not. Allow this separation and it further removes the burden of band-steering. I can lock in my devices to a specific 2.4G or 5G band, and Orbi doesn’t need to worry about moving my devices to the other 2.4G radio. This should help with disconnects. It also allows Netgear to sell more Orbi Satellites. I would be inclined to buy an additional satellite so I have large 5G coverage, rather than moving to 2.4G. Let the user decide, as all your competition allows. Allow Orbi node/device-steering to be completely disabled. The Orbi is Fast. VERY FAST! It should not be required to force client devices back to the main Orbi router. If my client device has a good connection to the satellite, then let it stay there, or move on its own if the RSSI drops beyond 75. Most modern devices handle roaming VERY WELL, and do not need your help. Don’t risk a client disconnect by forcing the device to move to the router. Please provide the option to disable all band-steering. Please expose the client device, and Orbi Satellite device, RSSI, MCS Data Rate, connected radio, and which Orbi node its connected to. This will allow your users to have troubleshooting ability…AND it will allow better placements of the Satellites if you can show the “REAL” RSSI and MCS of the satellite connections. When a Satellite powers up and gives that white light showing a good connection. What it doesn’t tell you is how stable that connection is. I have two locations in my home that can cause random fluctuations in my signal strength. It will be good one moment, and not good 60 seconds later. I have been FORCED to use a Samsung Android Smartphone with WIFI Analyzer to determine the TRUE quality of a Satellite location because your product refuses to show any detailed information. Please allow automatic updates to be DISABLED. Netgear suffers the same problem all manufactures experience. Sometimes you get it WRONG. Sometimes a code update causes more problems. Your customers should be allowed to choose if they want to update, or NOT. This can be resolved via Orbi light illuminations telling the user something needs to be performed. It can also be notified via the Orbi App. But it should be “notify first, then allow the user to accept or decline the update”. Your recent 1.9.x update has caused more problems than it solved. Further making the Orbi NOT SIMPLE. And there are other “nice to have” features such as vLAN support for guest network. And others…But I would be happy see the above changes made. These requests are ALREADY part of the command line, but using them is difficult, requires research, and should the user make any changes in the Web GUI, the command line changes are lost. Please read this, and please make Orbi work. These changes should take no more than 2-4 weeks. Thank You

Gentlemen, and ladies, if there are some, Orbi needs to work as designed. That means any “fix” that requires; a. Disabling MU-MINO, b. Disable Beamforming, c. Reduce your power, d. Unplug you Satellites, etc, etc. This is NOT a “fix”. If my car is not operating properly and the dealer or manufacture instructs me to disable half my cylinders, never use my AC, radio, or cruise control, etc, keep your RPMs under 3K and never drive faster than 40MPH. Well, I think you would all agree that I would be “complaining”. And asking for a refund. What “I believe” is happening is the Orbi Algorithm is not working for “SOME”. Of course, it will work for some, and not others. WHY? Because there is no single magic Algorithm that works for every environment and client device. Cisco, and many other commercial grade wireless systems usually have a central control station that manages all APs in a multiple AP environment. This control station monitors all connections and status of all APs. It will change channels of some APs depending on the APs location and nearby interference, it will steer clients to other APs based on that devices capability and the overall status of the APs grid. And it will do MANY other things to insure a proper, healthy, functional and stable WIFI experience. It does this dynamically because WIFI conditions are never the same though the day, week, month, etc. One minute it has 10 clients, and one hour later it has 40. One hour the client is close to AP node 1, then it shows its closer to AP node 2. If the device does not move itself to the better AP node, the control station will move it. If I have an Algorithm that instructs; “If” client connects to Orbi Sat using 5G radio, “and” its RSSI is -65 or better, “then” DO NOT STEER to 2G, or Orbi Router. “If” client RSSI drops below -65 using 5G radio, “then” steer to Sat 2G radio. “If” client RSSI is -65 or lower using Sat 2G radio, “then” steer to Orbi Router 2G radio, “only” if RSSI is -65 or greater using Router 2G radio. If client RSSI is -40 or greater using router 2G radio, “then” steer to router 5G radio. The above is a VERY simple Algorithm for example purposes. I think Netgears’ Algorithm is broken, and they are “trying” to find the one Algorithm that works for EVERYONE. I think Netgear is trying to prevent the Sat backhaul from becoming too congested. Hence, the Algorithm is bias to the router and attempts to steer clients to the router as much as possible. The problem with any “bias” to the router, is modern devices that are not STUPID and can see the Sat having a much greater signal (-50 or better, compared to the current -70 it may have), and it switches to the Sat. But then, the Orbi Algorithm runs again and kicks the client back to the router. And the circle starts again. The client devices will “argue” and switch back to the Sat and Orbi will repeat this process again. But, after a few bounces between the router and Sat. the client drops its connection. And this can be due to several reasons. Example; 1. The client MAC is now showing on both Sat and Router and the L2 switching doesn’t know what path to reach the device. 2. The Apple client code realizes it cannot maintain a consistent connection to the WIFI network and hence it gives up and DROPS because its tired of being kicked several times to different AP nodes. It wants to choose the AP node itself, so it says screw you Orbi. Some devices are STUPID, and once they lock onto a BSSID AP Node, they stay. And if steering moves that device to another AP node, then it stays there. Some devices with bad and lazy code are perfect candidates for steering because they lack the intelligence to move to a better AP node. But newer devices with good code DO NOT like steering. They will go to WAR with it. But, the WIFI gods know this, so they created flags that APs can send to clients with “suggestions”. “Hey iPhone, I have this wonderful AP node with a much better signal, so why not try that.” The iPhone can choose to ignore it. If the iPhone has an existing data connection that must be maintained, it may choose to stay on the AP node it is using, and perhaps switch AP nodes once it goes back to idle. Example, Flash is on a WIFI Call. So, NO. I want to stay where I am at because switching may break the connection. I will move later. But if Orbi forces the move and STP and other network features are not used...Guess what...DROP... Again, this is what I believe could be causing the problem, but it’s hard to prove because unlike EVERYONE else who makes Multi-AP platforms with steering and other advanced features. They let you see the Algorithm and change it. They let you disable and enable features that may, or may not, work for YOU. WHY? Because they know there is no one size, no single Algorithm, that WORKS FOR EVERYONE.

We've been putting in significant work on these disconnect issues and wireless stability and every new release typically has improvements in it. The challenge is that there are literally thousands of devices running multiple versions of software that a router or WiFi System needs to work with, and occassionally interoperability issues arise as the two systems try to talk to each other. When that happens, rest assured that we're working very hard to stay on top of these issues and solve them. When we come up with a proposed fix, we always want to test out our fixes in a real-world environment, before rolling it out for everyone and we use the beta program for that. At this stage, we think we have a solution for some of them but we want to test it out in a smaller environment. If you're interested in helping us, please feel free to contact Support. Thanks, Orbi Product Management

Good luck to you all. I have given up and sold my orbi at a substantial financial loss, but with a net gain. I gain back my time and lack of frustration in purchasing another product that just works. Unfortunately, Netgear has a great idea but only a half baked product, hoping that we/you will stick it out until it is fully baked. My fear in that is that with a 1.OMG release, there will be a condition in which the hardware will not be able to support the necessary changes in code to run properly, hence making an Orbi 2.(0H.. this is what it should have been from the start). I am personally not willing to beta any further. Too many issues for something that should just work. Good luck all. Tom

Flash008 wrote:LOL It's called denial, brother. Let me enjoy my denial a little while longer. :smileysad: I want them to work really bad too but I had to cut the ties. Even if I don't stick with the Ubiquiti setup I will not go back to the Orbi's. I will find something else.

Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

265 Replies

Retired_Member
Jun 13, 2017
Good luck tubastank! Thanks for the info Pete, I am curious, do you know at what level of support you actually get to talk to an employee of Netgear? I am currently on Level 3 support and I am still dealing with an employee of Concentrix in the Phillipines. I'm sure it is a huge black mark on the Concentrix record if they have to send a case to Netgear but seriously does this company not care at all?

The level 3 tech just now sent me new beta firmware, this time from a password protected page and it is v1.10.1.2-db0607. Is that even a new beta FW? I thought the last one I tried was 1.11 or 1.12.
- Flash008
  Luminary
  Jun 13, 2017
  Bob,
  
  WOW!
  
  I just received a response from Netgear support today. Telling me there is not any new firmware.
  
  The version you show must be a different build for the previous 1.10.x I am running.
  
  Way to go Netgear. Does anyone in your support team really know what is going on, what betas exist, or don't?
  
  Any response from ANYONE on the dev team?
  
  Anyone at Netgear care?
  
  It seems we now have 4 code levels in the wild. 1.10.x, 1.11.x, the recent GA release, and now a new build of 1.10.x.
  
  And how is Netgear getting consistant results with thier customer running 4 versions, if not more?
  
  Just asking.....
Retired_Member
Jun 13, 2017
"Take the time you spent dealing with Orbi problems. Add it up.

Now, determine the level of effort and time needed to run an Ethernet cable between two locations"

Lol and wow, that really hits home. Excellent point
- Flash008
  Luminary
  Jun 13, 2017
  Bob,
  
  Just saying.
  
  As I get older I realize now the very low value that humans attribute to "TIME". We count our dollars very closely and we are PICKY on how they are spent. But you can earn more dollars. You cannot earn more TIME.
  
  Thankfully I work from home and I stay up late catching up on TV, emails and just relaxing for a few. So cashing in an hour on this forum is a wash, hence not wasted on Netgear.
  
  But, when Netgear sends me "funny" requests to create Visio diagrams, and provide firmware and driver versions of ALL my devices, and log captures, etc, etc...
  
  That is when I draw the line, unless they pay me for the time it would take. Converting time into money is OK most times. But when my time cannot be converted into something of value, then it is wasted, and that is not going to be allowed by me.
  
  Wife, child, beach, eating, relaxing, friends, hobbies, etc....Far more important than Orbi.
netfixr
Initiate
Jun 13, 2017
I am very disheartened by this thread. I just ordered this from Costco.com after much reseach into Google WiFi, Plume, Amplify, etc. and now wonder if I should just return it without opening. It sounds like everyone is having to disable features I specifically bought this one over the others for.

Should I just return it, and if so, what would you recommend then? I have a 3 story 4200 sqft home where the internet comes in in the front corner of the middle floor. I feel like it is going to be hard to reach the entire house.

On a side note, I am using the AV500 powerline by Netgear, and was replacing this solution because - my WiFi drops randomly!
- st_shaw
  Master
  Jun 13, 2017
  netfixr wrote:
  
  Should I just return it, and if so, what would you recommend then? I have a 3 story 4200 sqft home where the internet comes in in the front corner of the middle floor. I feel like it is going to be hard to reach the entire house.
  
  You could try it first and be prepared to return it if it doesn't work for you. I've heard that Costco has a liberal return policy.
  
  Having Internet on the middle floor is ideal for a 3-floor home.
  
  Orbi works fine for me and other people. You need to consider that this board is frequented by people with problems, so there is a higher proportion of posters with problems. Just because a lot of people post on here with problems does not mean the same proportion of Orbi owners have problems.
- Flash008
  Luminary
  Jun 13, 2017
  Netflix,
  
  As others have stated, Orbi does work for some, but not MANY others.
  
  Your best bet is to try it, see how it goes.
  
  If you begin noticing problems, such as disconnects and other problems reported on this thread, then don’t waste your time fighting it. You are not alone and no fix has been released at this time.
  
  Then, make you decision. Keep it and hope Netgear resolves the problem(s). Or, return it.
  
  It's that simple.
tubastank
Apprentice
Jun 13, 2017
Netfixr...if you bought it at Costo you're safe. I bought mine in December 2016 and returned it yesterday. I was only asked "is it broken or did you not like it". Keep your receipt and you'll be fine to return whenever because they don't classify the Orbi as a computer so you can return it anytime.

Good luck.
Ts937km
Apprentice
Jun 13, 2017
I will disagree and we have a few VERY vocal individuals that are having issues. In my experience people typically don't report good news or a normal working setup. Personally I would think if this was a big issue people would be flaming all the good reviews and editor choices and it would make all the tech blogs

Myself and several IT friends have the 3 pack units with no issues.

I have been out of town and haven't yet had time to test with a wifi analyzer. Too much work related work. Since I am not experiencing any kind of noticeable issues it's not a priority to be honest.
- fbraz50
  Apprentice
  Jun 13, 2017
  I have moved on and installed a Netgear X4S (R7800) router and put the Orbis in the box. I got tired of the problems so I gave up. I was well outside the return window so I can't return the the orbis anymore. The R7800 range isn't as good but at least it's stable.
- tubastank
  Apprentice
  Jun 13, 2017
  Ts937km wrote:
  I will disagree and we have a few VERY vocal individuals that are having issues. In my experience people typically don't report good news or a normal working setup. Personally I would think if this was a big issue people would be flaming all the good reviews and editor choices and it would make all the tech blogs
  
  Myself and several IT friends have the 3 pack units with no issues.
  
  I have been out of town and haven't yet had time to test with a wifi analyzer. Too much work related work. Since I am not experiencing any kind of noticeable issues it's not a priority to be honest.
  
  Ts937km,
  
  I too am an IT professional with a couple decades under my belt and had the 3 pack from Costco. When I initially unboxed it and set it up, it was running fine for a good 2-3 months. I have what I would consider a normal setup. About 3 wired devices, including a synology NAS and the remaining 18-20 are wireless, including a printer. I don't have anything else besides my cable modem and a router, the Orbi at the time. My house is 2 story with an unfinished basement and about 2600 square feet.
  
  I can't recall when I initially flashed the satellites and router but it was most likely right after the initial setup it but I do remember everything started to go downhill after a specific flash some time later and continued flashing of the FW with newer public versions and beta versions did not help. The last beta FW created so many problems I had to disconnect both satellites and go to the router alone. Even with that I was experiencing dropped packets. Not significant but noticable doing a constant ping and working from home this isn't good when trying to do Webex, etc.
  
  Being asked by support to provide a network diagram and make and model of every device on my network is absurd. I now have my previous Apple Airport Extreme connected and have been using it with all devices since yesterday and I haven't had one dropped packet and no disconnects. The AAE is in the exact same location location as the Orbi router as well.
  
  Bet wishes to you and others who aren't having the issues.
fbraz50
Apprentice
Jun 13, 2017
I think that all these mesh Network companies are starting to figure out that wireless isn't easy and why Enterprise wifi systems cost so much money.

Anyone else notice that some of those beta firmwares are disabling the mu-mimo and beam forming by default? It's interesting that they are having such issues with those settings.
- Flash008
  Luminary
  Jun 14, 2017
  I thought I would give another update.
  
  I woke up and had an immediate phone call I need to make for work. Needless to say, all my devices were dropping from WIFI. I switched to the cell network. Problem solved.
  
  But I knew what the problem was. Orbi auto updated to its GA 1.10.1.2 release AGAIN.
  
  Rolled back to beta 1.10.0.1 and things are back to “normal”.
  
  Thanks, Netgear
  
  Anyone still feel that auto update is a good thing, or required?
tubastank
Apprentice
Jun 14, 2017
As a seasoned IT professional I am astounded Netgear has hardcodes autoupdates, especially when we're talking about a networking device. I understand this is consumer grade but still, ridiculous.

Microsoft on the desktop and server platforms does have autoupdates but it's configurable with several different options so one can do it manually. Synology on the NAS side has done the same thing and Apple provides notifications that updates are available but I don't believe they autoupdates.

We're talking software here. There is no reason to not provide customers the ability to disable autoupdates and implement steps to how Microsoft and Synology have for their products except if you want to control everything.

Based on this on how Support was one-way I'm starting to understand how Netgear works. Your customers are not all mindless idiots. You have smart people wanting to use your products. Give your customers and those potentially to be the capabilities and options.
- Flash008
  Luminary
  Jun 17, 2017
  Well, I must be fair and honest (as my parents raised me to be)....
  
  Netgear provided me with a NEW Beta this morning. I applied it immediately. About 8AM PST.
  
  Almost 14 hours and not single problem.
  
  WIFI-Calling is working well. No random drops I can see.
  
  Today was a busy day in the home. 2 AppleTVs running, family on the iPads. A few Webex and Skype meetings with VoIP, and plenty of general internet use.
  
  Not one problem I could see.
  
  Is it possible they found a solution to make Orbi work?
  
  I will give another update by Monday, if not sooner.
  
  P.S. Why am I scared?
  
  Now, if Netgear has Orbi to a BASELINE working condition, CAN WE PLEASE GET SOME PROGRESS ON OUR SUGGESTIONS AND PROMISES, such as No Auto-Updates, True MESH abilty, improved connected devices information (RSSI, MCS Rate), Maybe work on that Orbi App that "for me" is useless, etc., etc, etc. Getting us out of the red-zone is not the definition of improvement. Orbi should have been working right since day one, and evolved into something better by now. Now that it MAY be working right, its OVERDUE to make Orbi better.
  - rp1001
    Aspirant
    Jun 17, 2017
    Well this is encouraging - fingers crossed! I've had multiple internet drop outs and have sinced switched off the satellites (2 of them) - no drops outs for more than a week!
ktd
Apprentice
Jun 17, 2017
Is it 1.11.0.8?
- rp1001
  Aspirant
  Jun 17, 2017
  I'm on V1.10.1.2
  - ktd
    Apprentice
    Jun 17, 2017
    My Messages was for flash. I receiver the 1.11.0.8 yesterday but sinne I have lost hope that Netgear actually gonna manage to fix all issues I didn’t care to test it.
    But if its works as well as flash saying I maybe should give the new beta a try...
- Flash008
  Luminary
  Jun 17, 2017
  KTD, Yes
ktd
Apprentice
Jun 17, 2017
1.11.0.8 seems to be very much stable. So far so good but I’ve only been running that version for a few hours so I will not say that Netgear solved anything.
But it sure looks promising...
Magnificent1
Star
Jun 19, 2017
Where can I download v1.11.0.8? I'm on the verge of returning this device. Too many disconnection. Hopefully this beta helps.
- peteytesting
  Hero
  Jun 19, 2017
  you cant , its not public fw its beta fw and is still needing testing and review
  
  if you want to return it do so via the rma path
  - Flash008
    Luminary
    Jun 20, 2017
    I have provided Netgear with my review of their latest beta firmware.
    
    I have recommended they release it for GA quickly. I believe it will solve many stability problems.
    
    For me. It has been stable. Far better than there last GA release. About the same, if not “a little” better than beta 1.10.0.1 which I used for a while and prevented me reaching for the Advil bottle.
    
    However, I am still holding them accountable for:
    
    Option to disable auto updates.
    Better GUI visibility for connected clients. RSSI, MCS, and which node they are connected.
    True Mesh ability. No reason those Sat nodes can’t be used as extensions to other Sat nodes.
    
    If Netgear could simply handle those modifications then I think Orbi will be good enough to pass itself as a “Premium” product.
    
    May mercy on Netgear’s soul be given if Lyra and other products are released and/or updated before Orbi has these simple and required changes.
    
    If they push another GA release that brings Orbi back to the disconnect world. I will EBay this thing faster than they can respond with another beta.

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Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'