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Machine failure, dala lost, I need advice
Hi,
I have old nas ready duo 2. It works fine for a year but today it is very bad day for me.
Nas was too loud all the tiem, fan or what ever was so noisy as it is during start, but usually nas 1 min after start go to silent normal mode.
And getting to my NAS shares was not possible, windows announce me error, when I was trying get there as usually via LAN.
So I did this:
1. A wanted restart nas from the browser, but it didnt react after shoutdown command and apply button.
2. I restarted it manually by power button.
3. NAS turned off, so I turn it on and it started, but starting noisy sound was there all the time, no silent normal mode. I was still not able look on my shares via computer in LAN. In browser and admin pages NAS have no errors, everything seems normal on web and in logs section there was anything bad (just info that I have 91% full of my disk (raid X)
4. I make few more restarts and in one case I saw disk space full at 0% and no data.
5. My idea was turn it off and start it just with one disk, if there is problem with disk (no matter that nas didnt announce it) and will be able copy data on my PC at least. So I unplugged one disk, nas started and it seems that all my data are there (full on 91%) and but there was still noisy sound as it is during start. It started with one disk but I was not able still get there via LAN. But all apps and shares and settings was there as usuall.
(I know that I am not able connec just one disk to my computer, cos it is disk in raid, and I didnt try for that, but if i dont have raid, just simple 2 disks and could still save my data. Now I really dont know why is raid good :-( )
5. Now NAS was able make normal restart via browser so I restarted it and scandisk and so was planned. After it started, I was still not able get there via LAN and there was still that noisy starting sound.
6. So I decided plug in back second disk and nas started rsynch after restart.
7. But nas make such a silly rsynch and after it finished I have 100% free place and no data.
questions:
1. Have I my data now lost for ever :-) ?
2. There is still noisy sound, not only during start, but all the same same sound as it is during start. Is something broken with the machine, am I right ? (in logs there was no error !!! fans and disk seems to be ok)
3.ok...if I my NAS is now trash and I had to buy new one....one question. why is nas good ?? If have simple mini PC and 2 disk (NOT IN RAID), if there is any problem with one disk or machine, I can still make manual backup (maybe backup to my PC, I will just connect it via sata).
And it is not problem make an automatically night job for backuping disk (one to second one) via some soft on windows. In this case I will never lose any data.
So why is NAS good thing ? There is always problem with raid :-(
I have old nas ready duo 2. It works fine for a year but today it is very bad day for me.
Nas was too loud all the tiem, fan or what ever was so noisy as it is during start, but usually nas 1 min after start go to silent normal mode.
And getting to my NAS shares was not possible, windows announce me error, when I was trying get there as usually via LAN.
So I did this:
1. A wanted restart nas from the browser, but it didnt react after shoutdown command and apply button.
2. I restarted it manually by power button.
3. NAS turned off, so I turn it on and it started, but starting noisy sound was there all the time, no silent normal mode. I was still not able look on my shares via computer in LAN. In browser and admin pages NAS have no errors, everything seems normal on web and in logs section there was anything bad (just info that I have 91% full of my disk (raid X)
4. I make few more restarts and in one case I saw disk space full at 0% and no data.
5. My idea was turn it off and start it just with one disk, if there is problem with disk (no matter that nas didnt announce it) and will be able copy data on my PC at least. So I unplugged one disk, nas started and it seems that all my data are there (full on 91%) and but there was still noisy sound as it is during start. It started with one disk but I was not able still get there via LAN. But all apps and shares and settings was there as usuall.
(I know that I am not able connec just one disk to my computer, cos it is disk in raid, and I didnt try for that, but if i dont have raid, just simple 2 disks and could still save my data. Now I really dont know why is raid good :-( )
5. Now NAS was able make normal restart via browser so I restarted it and scandisk and so was planned. After it started, I was still not able get there via LAN and there was still that noisy starting sound.
6. So I decided plug in back second disk and nas started rsynch after restart.
7. But nas make such a silly rsynch and after it finished I have 100% free place and no data.
questions:
1. Have I my data now lost for ever :-) ?
2. There is still noisy sound, not only during start, but all the same same sound as it is during start. Is something broken with the machine, am I right ? (in logs there was no error !!! fans and disk seems to be ok)
3.ok...if I my NAS is now trash and I had to buy new one....one question. why is nas good ?? If have simple mini PC and 2 disk (NOT IN RAID), if there is any problem with one disk or machine, I can still make manual backup (maybe backup to my PC, I will just connect it via sata).
And it is not problem make an automatically night job for backuping disk (one to second one) via some soft on windows. In this case I will never lose any data.
So why is NAS good thing ? There is always problem with raid :-(
10 Replies
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- If you have only two disk you are probably in raid1 and I'm pretty sure you should be able to read the disk if you hook it to a computer.
Noise can be simple dust , try to clean a little bit. Try a cooler room if you have one.
NAS are basically PC with a simple GUI to handle disks and shares that's about it. You can do the same thing with a PC and something like freeNAS or MediaVault. If you look at AM1 processors you'll see that they consume only 25W which is on par with most NAS but they are in a PC case, so they are bulky (micro-ATX). That said if you want to go for 4bays and more, or want x86 processor, it would be cheaper to make a PC. NAS are good only because that's an all in one thing, that's an appliance, a preconfigured thing.
NAS shouldn't come alone though, they are meant to be paired, raid is not a safety for everything, only disk failure, if you house was flooded or burned (or whatever disaster you want) you would have lost your data the same way. NAS is not to blame here. RAID is not backup, never was and never will be. That's only a protection layer against disk failure. Let's say you have a superb lock on your door, then you discover a thief got in by the window, will you blame the door lock ?
I never lost a RAID array, so I'm not good at troubleshooting things but I'm pretty sure that raid can be mounted on another machine to recover data as long as disks are in good shape. It just takes time.
As for your suggested setup, for home use, it may be good, try that with bank systems ;) you loose 24H of data, you loose billions, RAID was a professional feature, it happened to be so awesome that it eventually got to home users. But keep in mind that before having NAS with RAID people used CD/DVD, external drives or paid services (FTP / cloud...) to backup their data. So NAS is complicated, but that's because is an enterprise feature before all, it's aimed at system administrator, not at home users. - The duo v1 is RAID-1, but disk 2 does not have a formatted data partition.
You can try to read the data by connecting disk 1 to a windows PC and using linux reader (http://www.diskinternals.com/linux-reader/) However I fear it is lost.
As far as RAID goes, it is not a backup. It keeps your data available when a hard drive fails, and gives you some ability to expand the storage without taking it off line. But it still requires a separate backup on a second device to keep your data safe.
In your proposal you have two hard drives in the same PC, and are backing up from one to the other. That is vulnerable to some hardware failures (a power surge could take out the PC and both disks), and some software failures (malware like cryptolocker). A better plan is to back up the NAS (with or without RAID) every night over the network to a USB drive connected to a windows PC. - First..... that noisy sound doesnt seems like not cleaned fan. It is like starting phase as every nas have did not end successfully. So NAS is like always in starting phase. This idea is supported by the fact, that control of nas via web has some problems, for example I was not able set shutdown via web, it doesnt react. I will clean it, but I am worry that there is some technical problem. Maybe I will try to make factory default and then make again update ...maybe it can help (also with cleaning).
Second...
You can try to read the data by connecting disk 1 to a windows PC and using linux reader (http://www.diskinternals.com/linux-reader/)
You mean that I will not be force wait long time (several hours) till my disk connected in PC will readable ? That I just use that program and I can read my disk very fast ??
Third...it is my third bad accident with raid. I had problem on company server several years ago, raid was broken and I was not able recover it and even my technician was not able fix it and last year with my last(current) NAS I have problem that there was some mistake with directory structure (I was makeing some changes in shares via web of NAS), so nas was ok, disk was ok, but all my data was lost. I tried connect it into PC but there had to be some problem so any SW was able read it. That is why I dont have any benefit from raid, I have never disk failure (the main reason why we have raid). My college gave me similar advice and you gave me, I should have NAS but also some disk for backup, but who want pay so much HW at home :-(
So If I was using some mini PC or so... I could make backup every 3 months (it is enough) and I didnt need any new disk for it, cos I would have not any raid :-). Now it really seems to me cheaper and easier. And I will have much better OS as it is in NAS :-) Now I am really confused, if I should buy news NAS or not :-( - @stephen
The duo v1 is RAID-1, but disk 2 does not have a formatted data partition.
How is that possible ? If raid 1 is supposed to mirror the data, how can data partitions be of different types ? I would understand for system partition (since they can reinstall from flash if needed) but for data I just don't understand how "a clone" can be different from the original.
If you already have the mini-PC (or any PC with large disks) you can share it from windows / linux / mac or whatever OS you use and make a copy from the NAS to the PC. USB Disks come cheap nowadays too. There is no need to buy a 300$ box on top of that, just the drive itself. The best is always to have two physical locations but at least having two copies will prevent data loss when you have a NAS problem. - Were you using X-RAID or Flex-RAID RAID-1?
X-RAID uses a dedicated parity disk. The partition table would only be on one of the disks in a 2-disk X-RAID array. - X-RAID - expendable
The partition table would only be on one of the disks in a 2-disk X-RAID array.
So can I get my data back for example with ZAR ? I just need use one, the right one disk for restore? Or what you mean ? - The partition table is typically on disk 1. So all else being equal data recovery from disk 1 is easier.
The disk that doesn't have the partition table on it may appear to be blank, but it isn't. It should be obvious which disk is the one with the partition table on it when you use your data recovery software. - I could try both.... I will use ZAR or have somebody some experience with another SW ?
(btw... what do you think is better, netgear, synlogoy or zyxel as a NAS :-) ?)
And one more question, can I have no raid in nas ? So such a system that I can any time unplug disk and connect it directly via sata in PC. - Synology definitely has the best interface I've seen on a NAS, with multimedia player, multitasking, lots of features included and so on but this is locked (IE you can't install what you want on it although ipkg offers some choice).
Netgear is cheaper and the interface is more focussed on being simple and efficient (less clics than Synology) than on being feature full and beautiful. Debian is fully installed under it.
I don't know for Zyxel, but I heard people saying good things about QNAP.
It all depends on your needs, Seagate has some NAS too for example.
My personal pick would be Synology if I had unlimited money, I picked a Netgear because it was half price compared to the equivalent Synology when I bought it. I find that Netgear OS6 lacks some important features (notably network security features like firewall, brute-force counter measures, IDS/IPS...) but since it's debian you can do it on your own as soon as you don't have to use specific kernel modules not loaded by default. Hopefully we'll see some interesting things in 6.2.0 update.
Yes you can disable the RAID in a NAS although not advised. You have two options : JBOD (a single volume like raid but when you lose a disk you lose only what's on it, other disks should be readable since files are not splitter between disks) or 1volume per disk. - QNAP TS 212 e seems to be very nice. And it costs just 168€. Interface look simple and there is plenty of free addons, transmissions and utorrent too and this is the most important for me.
Second very important thing is no raid, but as you said, also netgear has JBOD. I am too worry about raid now, so I dont want it :-).
And it has also just 13W!
Maybe (or for sure :-) ) also netgear has good NAS too, but I have bad feelings now, cos my problems with old nas ready duo v2. And they seems to be much expensive.
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