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Forum Discussion
ruudpel
Oct 03, 2014Aspirant
ReadyNAS Ultra 6 expansion
Hello all,
first off, hats off to Netgear for their products and to all of you for creating this amazingly resourceful forum. However, I have two specific questions regarding my setup I haven't been able to find here yet.
Here goes. My setup is ReadyNAS Ultra 6 in X-RAID2 mode with 6 x 2TB discs, giving me 9250GB of space. Probably redudant info, but I'm running on latest firmware and RAIDiator. I'm now at 99% capacity so I'd like to expand.
My first thought was to replace my six 2TB drives with six 3TB drives, but then I had the idea to get four 4TB drives. Costs are approx. the same.
Question 1: is there a good reason to choose either of the two options? What would you choose and why?
Question 2: going from 6 x 2TB to 6 x 3TB is easy. Take one disc out, put a new one in. Let the NAS resync, reboot, etc, and do the other drives the same way. Gonna take a while, but it's easy. What about the 4 x 4TB option though? After replacing the first four 2 TB drives with the four new 4TB drives, can I just pull out the last two 2TB drives safely?
Bonus question: I'm reading a lot about the 16TB capacity limit. Will I encounter this problem with either setup? I'm not willing/able to do a factory reset.
Hope everything is clear and you guys can help me out. if you need any additional info, please ask.
Just in case it's useful: my current drives are Samsung HD204UI's, the new ones will be WD RED's.
With many thanks,
Ruud
first off, hats off to Netgear for their products and to all of you for creating this amazingly resourceful forum. However, I have two specific questions regarding my setup I haven't been able to find here yet.
Here goes. My setup is ReadyNAS Ultra 6 in X-RAID2 mode with 6 x 2TB discs, giving me 9250GB of space. Probably redudant info, but I'm running on latest firmware and RAIDiator. I'm now at 99% capacity so I'd like to expand.
My first thought was to replace my six 2TB drives with six 3TB drives, but then I had the idea to get four 4TB drives. Costs are approx. the same.
Question 1: is there a good reason to choose either of the two options? What would you choose and why?
Question 2: going from 6 x 2TB to 6 x 3TB is easy. Take one disc out, put a new one in. Let the NAS resync, reboot, etc, and do the other drives the same way. Gonna take a while, but it's easy. What about the 4 x 4TB option though? After replacing the first four 2 TB drives with the four new 4TB drives, can I just pull out the last two 2TB drives safely?
Bonus question: I'm reading a lot about the 16TB capacity limit. Will I encounter this problem with either setup? I'm not willing/able to do a factory reset.
Hope everything is clear and you guys can help me out. if you need any additional info, please ask.
Just in case it's useful: my current drives are Samsung HD204UI's, the new ones will be WD RED's.
With many thanks,
Ruud
13 Replies
Replies have been turned off for this discussion
- vandermerweMasterI would get the four 4 tb drives and replace 4 of the 2 tb disks, one at a time as you have described. You will need to leave the remaining two 2 tb drives in to maintain volume redundancy. There is no way to reduce the number of drives in an array without a factory default. That said, the two 2 tb drives will continue to be used and you will have a volume of 14.7 tb in Xraid single redundancy.
As for the volume expansion limits:
They apply to the volume size
There is an 8 tb expansion limit from whatever the original volume size was when the unit was last factory defaulted - do you know this?
There is a 16 tb limit which can only be exceed if the unit is factory defaulted with that capacity(>16tb ) in place.
You clearly do not have a backup of the nas contents, which may be unwise. - ruudpelAspirantHi,
thanks for your reply. So now that I'm using six drives, I'm pretty obligated to keep using six unless I am willing to do a factory default? If that's the case, doesn't it make more sense to use six 3TB drives? What will my volume be with 6 x 3TB drives?
I knew about the 16TB limit; not about the 8TB limit. But I don't either of those limits will be a problem; I'd probably hit those numbers if I'd get six 4TB drives which is not happening.
Also, about the backup, well, my NAS IS the backup..it's already in RAID config, so unless I get another NAS to function as a backup for my current NAS, I would have no idea how/where to backup 10TB of data..
Ruud - StephenBGuru - Experienced User
Yesruudpel wrote: So now that I'm using six drives, I'm pretty obligated to keep using six unless I am willing to do a factory default?
6x3TB would give you a 15 TB volume size (reported by Frontview as 13 TB, because it uses "power of two" units - technically called TiB. If your current drives are healthy, it would be cheaper to replace some of them with 4 TB models, leaving the rest as they are. 4x4TB+2x2TB would give you 16 TB (assuming you don't hit the 8 TiB limit). Price it out.ruudpel wrote: If that's the case, doesn't it make more sense to use six 3TB drives? What will my volume be with 6 x 3TB drives?
If you installed all six 2TB drives at the same time, then your initial volume size was 10 TB - in which case you don't need to worry about the 8 TiB limit.ruudpel wrote: I knew about the 16TB limit; not about the 8TB limit. But I don't either of those limits will be a problem; I'd probably hit those numbers if I'd get six 4TB drives which is not happening.
However, Netgear setup guides recommended installing 1 drive at a time (back when disks were small enough that the 8 TiB limit seemed impossible to reach). So if you began by installing a single 2 TB drive (adding the rest later), then your starting point was 2 TB, and you have already reached the 8 TiB limit. If you've never deleted your logs, it should be possible to tell where you started.
If you are saying that the NAS is not used for primary storage, but only copies for backup then you shouldn't have any real issue with doing a factory reset, since you can simply make fresh backups.ruudpel wrote: Also, about the backup, well, my NAS IS the backup..it's already in RAID config, so unless I get another NAS to function as a backup for my current NAS, I would have no idea how/where to backup 10TB of data..
On the other hand, if you are thinking that RAID is all you need to protect your data, then you are very wrong. If you read through posts here you will will find many people have learned this the hard way. You can back up to another NAS, to a group of USB drives, or to a group of desktop internal drives. Personally I back up my NAS to some older, smaller NAS - and also make a separate backup to dedicated drives in two desktop PCs. Now that 6 TB drives are available, you can back up a 10 TB volume with only 2 drives. - ruudpelAspirantHi Stephen,
I started out with 3 x 2TB drives. That's how I purchased the NAS so I guess that's the 'default'. I later added drive 4, 5 and 6. Which means I will have the 8TB problem right? Does that mean I am pretty much forced to do a factory reset? What would your advice then be? - ruudpelAspirantfollow up on my previous post. I've been thinking and I reckon this is the best solution. I buy four 4TB drives and replace four of my 2TB drives one by one. At that point I will encounter the 8TB limit problem. Then I use my four 2TB drives to backup the data from my NAS. I remove the last two drives and then do a factory reset. At that point all data on my NAS will be lost, but it will all be backupped at my 2TB drives. After the factory reset, I can move all the data back on the NAS. Then I have four out of six slots used and I can (please correct me if I'm wrong) at a later stage buy two more 4TB drives and expand.
Would love your opinion on this plan..am I overlooking anything? - vandermerweMasterYou would need to factory default after insertion of the 2nd 4 tb drive as adding the 3rd would take you over the limit and the volume will not expand. You'd then only have freed up 2 of the 2 tb drives.
I'm not sure you'd be able to add a 4th disk without causing a problem. It's possible that volume will be ok and just not expand, but in personally wouldn't want to chance it. You need to find a way to back up your data now I think. - StephenBGuru - Experienced User
So you started with a 4 TB volume, and can expand to a little more than 12. You are at 10 TB now. As Vandermerwe says that means you can upgrade two drives to 4 TB, but no more. If you are 99% full now, then you want a volume size of at least 13 TB just to get enough free space.ruudpel wrote: Hi Stephen,
I started out with 3 x 2TB drives. That's how I purchased the NAS so I guess that's the 'default'. I later added drive 4, 5 and 6. Which means I will have the 8TB problem right? Does that mean I am pretty much forced to do a factory reset? What would your advice then be?
So I think you do need to reset, I'd suggest going for a 16 TB volume size. That would be 4x4TB+2x2TB. (5x4TB can also work, though the procedure below assumes 4x4TB+2x2TB).
Either way you need to have enough storage in place to have an 8 TB volume when you do the reset.
If you want to preserve your data:
Purchase four 4 TB drives and a USB enclosure. You can connect them (one at a time) to a PC, and format them (NTFS for windows). Copy the data on the NAS over the network to these drives - three of the 4 will hold the data. You'll find it is much faster to copy data over a wired ethernet connection to use the ultra's backup ports.
After you have all the data, do a factory reset with your existing 6x2TB setup. After the reset you
(a) first reinstall any addons you are using
(b) reconfigure the NAS with the right shares, users, etc
(c) then hot-insert the empty 4 TB drive into the NAS (replacing a 2TB drive). Wait for resync, which will likely take 1/2 day. The volume size will still be 10 TB.
(d) Copy 4 TB of data from one of 4 TB backups to the NAS.
(e) then hot-insert that 4 TB drive into the NAS (replacing a second 2TB drive). Wait for resync, which could take a day. The volume size should grow to 12 TB. Note that the expansion will probably require a reboot after the resync.
(f) Copy 4 TB of data from the second 4 TB backup to the NAS.
(g) hot-insert the 2nd backup disk into the NAS (replacing the third 2 TB drive), and wait for resync. The volume should grow to 14 TB.
(h) copy the remaining data from the last 4 TB backup onto the NAS
(i) hot insert the last 4 TB drive (replacing the fourth 2 TB drive), and wait for resync. The volume should grow to 16 TB.
This process is tedious (will likely take about a week of calendar time), but should preserve your data. It can be adapted to 5x4TB if you want to go that route. Basically you do the reset with 2x4TB+2x2TB in place. That gives you the 8 TB starting point you need. You replace the two 2TB drives as shown above, and simply insert the last drive into an empty slot. The benefit of 5x4TB is that you can add a last 4 TB drive later for dual-redundancy - improving data safety, but keeping with the 16 TB volume size.
Also, at some point you should look into a backup solution. If you can afford to do that now, it would simplify the upgrade path I outlined above. - ruudpelAspirantHi Stephen,
thank you for your very thorough reply. However, I'm a bit confused as to the complexity of all this. Let's remove the data that's currently stored at my NAS for clarity's sake. It's my problem as to how and where I backup that data.
So I bought the NAS pre-installed with three 2TB drives. I later added the 4th, 5th and 6th drive. So let's say I remove all six drives at once and replace them, all at once, with five 4TB drives. Then I do factory reset/default. My volume will be 4 x 4TB = 16TB, with the 5th drive functioning as redudant correct? Then I can always later add a 6th 4TB drive. Apart from backing up my data somewhere, is it this simple or am I overlooking something?
Many thanks again,
Ruud - StephenBGuru - Experienced User
Maintaining your existing data w/o a backup is possible (though not ideal). The step-by-step shows how to do that.ruudpel wrote: thank you for your very thorough reply. However, I'm a bit confused as to the complexity of all this. Let's remove the data that's currently stored at my NAS for clarity's sake. It's my problem as to how and where I backup that data.
I don't think its quite as complicated in practice as the post makes it look, though it is similar to those river crossing puzzles where you are trying to get across the river without being eaten by the cannibals.
Actually if you do replace them all at once ,there is no need for the reset, since the NAS is doing a fresh install on the new drives. Apart from that nuance, the answer is yes.ruudpel wrote: So let's say I remove all six drives at once and replace them, all at once, with five 4TB drives. Then I do factory reset/default. My volume will be 4 x 4TB = 16TB, with the 5th drive functioning as redundant correct?
You can add the sixth drive for dual-redundancy (getting more protection, but no more space). But you will not be able to expand the 16 TB volume unless you do a second reset.ruudpel wrote: Then I can always later add a 6th 4TB drive.
The whole purpose of xraid is to allow you to expand the array, and if you are starting out at 16 TB you can't do that anyway. Given that, you could potentially use flexraid to set up 4x5TB RAID-5. That gives you the option of adding a 6th disk as a second volume (not RAID protected). That could be useful for PC backups or non-critical files. Switching to flexraid would require a reset though, there's no migration path possible for that which preserves your existing array. - ruudpelAspirantRight..so..assuming a factory reset:
a) I install five 4TB discs, giving me 16TB volume, single redundancy
b1) I install six 4TB discs, giving me 16TB volume, dual redudancy
b2) I install six 4TB discs, giving me 20TB volume, single redundancy
c) I install five 3TB discs, giving me 12TB volume, single redundancy
d1) I install six 3TB discs, giving me 12TB volume, dual redundancy
d2) I install six 3TB discs, giving me 15TB volume, single redundancy
is that correct?
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