Re: ISP will not update customer owned equipment

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-12-30

You can try contacting a forum moderator and see if they can help you as this is beyond forum help abilities:

ronpro · ‎2020-12-30

Thanks and Have a Happy and Safe New Year!! Ron

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-12-30

Chubbsy · ‎2021-01-09

I too am having the same problem and now have decided I will never buy another net gear item again. Not allowing us to download an update for the firmware and installing it ourselves is stupid pathetic and greedy. Last Netgear product i will ever buy.

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-01-10

Again, this is not under NG control, this is a cable modem DOCSIS spec to which ALL other modem mfrs must follow. So not only is NG effected, Motorola, Arris and others are effected and don't allow FW updates to be applied directly by users. The only cable modem gateway that allows FW to be updated by users is the CAX80 and it's only the router portion of the unit that NG has FW for users to apply when needed.

So if you want to complain to someone about cable modem FW updates, talk to the cable modem DOCSIS community. I'm sure they will be open to listen to your concerns.

Good Luck.

@Chubbsy wrote:
I too am having the same problem and now have decided I will never buy another net gear item again. Not allowing us to download an update for the firmware and installing it ourselves is stupid pathetic and greedy. Last Netgear product i will ever buy.

Chubbsy · ‎2021-01-10

Well if this is truly the case then it's a sad situation. Right on the Box netgear touts that you will save lots of money over a $130 a year By owning your own Modem. While this may be true it also means that your modem will never be up-to-date as far as firmwares go. To have a modem that's not even a year old and is under warranty and already have the firmware out of date And cant be updated because the ISP refuses to update, Is completely pathetic!
Netgear On their website touts that they are committed to being proactive as compared to being reactive in regards to security. If they won't let us update our own equipment and they know darn well the ISP is not updating their equipment then Netgear Is just Spouting a bunch of jibberish.
In my case my ISP is Mediacom and in the Netgear website they list that Mediacom Firmware upgrade version should be 1.03.01. Mine is 1.02.09. So much for being up-to-date with security! Again if what you are saying is true then it's obvious that the modem manufacturers and the ISP providers must have some kind of agreement not to keep customers equipment upgraded. Therefore necessitating you to buy a new modem almost every year. Just more corporate greed. In this day and age it's just so pathetic that companies are actually refusing to keep The customer their number one goal. And with what has been going on lately with hacking it's pathetic that they are refusing to keep equipment updated.

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-01-11

Again, you'll need to contact your ISP and ask them about new FW updates for your modem. If they won't then thats there decision. I would recommend for any ISP that won't update FW on user owned modems either use what you have or use the ISP provided modem which most ISP will update. Your choice. Again this is a cable sysetem wide policy set forth by the DOCSIS folks. Something that all modem mfrs and ISP follow.

Good luck.

ronpro · ‎2021-01-11

Chubbsy, If your modem is listed as approve by Mediacom and your modem is not update to the version listed on their (Mediacom) site (Mediacom Firmware upgrade version should be 1.03.01). I would call support and asked to be handed up to a higher level of support. If you get the right person that would push it to you. But have CMAC handy just incase he/she ask for it. Ron

Chubbsy · ‎2021-01-11

Finally an answer that gives me workable advice. Not the standard that we are screwed. Thanks ill give it a go. This shouldn't be this hard just to stay up to date.

Usr184 · ‎2021-01-11

@Chubbsy, unfortunately if you recently purchased a new modem, the firmware out of the box will be newer than the supported version that Mediacom has to offer you. At least that's what I experienced from trying two separate modems from two different manufacturers.
But I wish you luck.

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-01-11

"Has a power off for 1 minute then back ON with the ISP modem and Orbi system been performed since last update?" Was offered.

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-01-11

Oops. wrong paste.

"Again, you'll need to contact your ISP and ask them about new FW updates for your modem." Was offered.

blitz120 · ‎2022-06-21

What I don't understand is why Netgear does not support their paying customers (those who purchase the equipment) updating their own modem's firmware. I understand that the ISPs like to do so, but they are not a part of the company/customer relationship. This also allow the ISP to introduce modified versions of the software, which could reduce the customer's security.

I would really like to see Netgear directly address this (not "we don't do it", but why they refuse to favor their customers over third party services.

FURRYe38 · ‎2022-06-21

Be cause it's a DOCSIS spec requirement that ISPs update modems. Not NGs requirement.

ISP are apart of the company/customer/ISP relationship.

All modem mfrs develop the modem FW, Then modem mfrs send this to the ISPs. ISPs are responsible to test any new FW versions coming from modem mfrs to ensure it works and works on there ISP network system prior to pushing to user modems.

Been like this for years.

@blitz120 wrote:

What I don't understand is why Netgear does not support their paying customers (those who purchase the equipment) updating their own modem's firmware. I understand that the ISPs like to do so, but they are not a part of the company/customer relationship. This also allow the ISP to introduce modified versions of the software, which could reduce the customer's security.

I would really like to see Netgear directly address this (not "we don't do it", but why they refuse to favor their customers over third party services.

blitz120 · ‎2022-06-21

If it is part of the DOCSIS 3.1 spec (and that it specifies that firmware MUST NOT be updatable by the end user), then Netgear should explicitly state that on their download page(s), preferably with a reference to the particular DOCSIS document and section number.

I just perused several of the DOCSIS 3.1 documents, centering around CM-SP-CM-OSSIv3.1-I22-220216: Cable Modem Operations Support System Interface Specification, and could find nothing that addressed this.

I would like to get such a reference.

Note that this approach has serious security risks, given that a malware-containing firmware version could be introduced either by the ISP or by a third party getting access to the cable network upstream of the cable modem. Since the end users cannot access the firmware to perform a clean install, they may rely only on the reported firmware version, without even the option of checking and verifying checksums for what is installed. One would think this would introduce a substantial risk for the ISP, since they would be totally liable for any such malware being introduced, without giving the end user any means of checking this themselves.

FURRYe38 · ‎2022-06-21

I believe one reason why ISPs are not responsible for FW updates on modems is due to a past history of FW being not fully tested or developed and tested well. ISP pushed bad FW to user owned modems thus bricking or causing modems to become bad. ISP then incurred costs to replace the user owned modems at the ISP cost and expense. I believe this was one reason why ISPs are now testing FW and making final certifications on cable modem FW BEFORE they push to any modem. Some ISPs will just not push FW to any user owned modems, only ISP owned or rented modems from the ISP.

There are ways to that users CAN see and view FW versions on modems. Thats always been around. Just can't update them.

https://kb.netgear.com/000036375/What-s-the-latest-firmware-version-of-my-NETGEAR-cable-modem-or-mod...

Again, been like this for years. NG isn't the only one. ALL other cable modem Mfrs follow same policy and spec.

Enjoy.