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M4200 -> M4300 Multicast Configuration (for NDI / Dante)

muzicman82
Aspirant

M4200 -> M4300 Multicast Configuration (for NDI / Dante)

Hi all,

 

I am not having any problems currently, but I wanted to run the config by this group and see if there's anything I'm missing or if any tweaks are in order...

 

I have a M4200 with several NDI devices connected. Currently, port 10 is uplinked to port 25 on the M4300, which will serve as the main switch. 

 

I haven't created any additional VLANs, so everything is operating on VLAN1. As far as I can tell, I have querier enabled on only the M4300, snooping enabled on both switches, and the querier address is 1.1.1.1 on the M4300 for highest priority, and 2.2.2.2 on the M4200. I also have Fast Leave enabled but the detail below doesn't show this (what show command would report this?) Is this all correct?

 

This is for the M4300:

(M4300-28G) #show igmpsnooping querier detail
Last Querier Querier VLAN ID Address MAC Address IGMP Version ------- ---------------- ----------------- ------------ Global IGMP Snooping querier status ----------------------------------- IGMP Snooping Querier Mode..................... Enable Querier Address................................ 0.0.0.0 IGMP Version................................... 2 Querier Query Interval......................... 60 Querier Expiry Interval........................ 60 VLAN 1 : IGMP Snooping querier status ---------------------------------------------- IGMP Snooping Querier VLAN Mode................ Enable Querier Election Participate Mode.............. Enable Querier VLAN Address........................... 1.1.1.1 Operational State.............................. Querier Querier MAC Address............................ bc:a5:11:16:82:cb Operational version............................ 2 Operational Max Resp Time...................... 10

This is the M4200:

(M4200-10MG-PoE+) #show igmpsnooping querier detail

        Last Querier
VLAN ID Address          IGMP Version
------- ---------------- ------------
1       10.101.1.107     v2

Global IGMP Snooping querier status
-----------------------------------
IGMP Snooping Querier Mode..................... Disable
Querier Address................................ 0.0.0.0
IGMP Version................................... 2
Querier Query Interval......................... 60
Querier Expiry Interval........................ 60

VLAN 1   :   IGMP Snooping querier status
----------------------------------------------
IGMP Snooping Querier VLAN Mode................ Enable
Querier Election Participate Mode.............. Enable
Querier VLAN Address........................... 2.2.2.2
Operational State.............................. Disabled
Last Querier Address........................... 10.101.1.107
Operational version............................ 2
Operational Max Resp Time...................... 11

Finally, 

 

I haven't gotten to it yet, but I will be adding maybe 3-4 Dante devices to this network. Is there a compelling need or reason to separate this into a different VLAN? Or, can I configure QoS as I normally would for Dante on VLAN 1 and not negatively affect the NDI traffic?

 

Thanks!

 

 

Model: GSM4328S|M4300-28G - Stackable Managed Switch with 24x1G and 4x10G including 2x10GBASE-T and 2xSFP+ Layer 3
Message 1 of 11
NeilS
NETGEAR Expert

Re: M4200 -> M4300 Multicast Configuration (for NDI / Dante)

Hi...

 

Using 1.1.1.1 and 2.2.2.2 as querier addresses are not a concern as the addresses can be anything you wish, ie., they are not actual IP adreses, but used as part of an election process. Since there can only be a single querier active in the network, and if (as in your case), multiple
queriers are configured, this can trigger an election process. The current active querier will be the switch with the lowest address configured in the querier field.

 

The M4300 is the primary querier, so in the event of any M4300 downtime, the M4200 would then become the primary IGMP querier, etc.

 

In order to view Fast-Leave information, the following commands can be used for example:

#show igmpsnooping 1
#show igmpsnooping fast-leave (at port level)

 

Regarding running Dante and NDI devices on the same VLAN, the best practice recommendation would be to create a seperate VLAN for the Dante devices.

 

There is a kb available for this available at: https://kb.netgear.com/000060205/M4300-Configuration-Guide-for-Dante-Audio-Devices

 

Please let us know if you have any further questions.

Model: GSM4328S|M4300-28G - Stackable Managed Switch with 24x1G and 4x10G including 2x10GBASE-T and 2xSFP+ Layer 3
Message 2 of 11
muzicman82
Aspirant

Re: M4200 -> M4300 Multicast Configuration (for NDI / Dante)

Thanks for the info...  a few follow up questions:

  • Am I correct to leave IGMP Snooping Querier Mode to Disable for the M4200 (but enabled on the M4300)? This does give me exactly one querier. I thought there should not be more than one querier on a network, or is that recommendation just for simplicity of not having to properly set up election priorities? I mean, in this sort of environment, if the querier is down, the switch is down and I have more problems.... 
  • Also, I though that with the IGMP proxy mode enabled, there actually isn't a querier elected? 
  • One recommendation for NDI is to disable QoS? How is that done on these switches, and if I were to setup a VLAN for Dante, I'd need to disable for NDI VLAN and configure QoS for Dante VLAN (I've done this before). 
Message 3 of 11
NeilS
NETGEAR Expert

Re: M4200 -> M4300 Multicast Configuration (for NDI / Dante)

Hi,

 

To answer.

 

1. Practicality suggests having more than one querier in the event of any failures on the network.

So can make sense to have both switches enabled as querier, but each with higher/lower IP values in the event of an election process.

 

2. Yes, by configuring all switches (and/or Routers) as IGMP proxy queriers, no designated IGMP querier is elected.

 

3. QoS isn't enabled by default on either switch model, so no need to specifically disable for NDI devices.

QoS can then be enabled for all Dante devices on the new VLAN.

 

I hope that helps answer your questions.

 

Model: GSM4328S|M4300-28G - Stackable Managed Switch with 24x1G and 4x10G including 2x10GBASE-T and 2xSFP+ Layer 3
Message 4 of 11
muzicman82
Aspirant

Re: M4200 -> M4300 Multicast Configuration (for NDI / Dante)

Hello,

 

Still following up here...

 

I went ahead and configured VLAN 2 to contain only Dante audio devices. I don't expect to need or setup multicast flows, but I have IGMP querier and snooping enabled on this VLAN as well. 

 

I have a few questions regarding the M4300 Dante configuration guide

  1. I see where MLD Snooping is enabled for the Dante VLAN in the guide. However, MLD Querier is not enabled. Should it be? Is MLD configured the same way as IGMP? I realize it handles IPv6. 
  2. I do not see in the M4300 where QoS is "disabled" by default. I see it is set to trust-ip-dscp, or is that effectively "disabled" since it is relying on devices to set the flags?
  3. I am a little lost on how QoS is configured differently for different VLANs, or is it not? Should I follow the steps in the guide and configure the switch QoS settings for Dante even though VLAN 1 will be for management and NDI video? I also realize that the QoS is now being advised for networks with a lot of devices/bandwidth... which I will not have, so is it necessary? 

Lastly, I have IGMP Querier enabled on all switches as advised, but in Wireshark, I still see Membership Query messages from both switches. It is less often than the primary switch sends them out. When I check the "2.2.2.2" switch (which should be the backup querier), it does say the Querier status is Non-Querier. So, I guess I am wondering if seeing Membership Queries from both switches is normal or if I should disable the querier on the non-primary switch. 

Message 5 of 11
muzicman82
Aspirant

Re: M4200 -> M4300 Multicast Configuration (for NDI / Dante)

Also, I'm getting between 167-235ms in NDI video latency. Is it possible that the switch is adding some of this latency? I did change one NDI camera to unicast and it did not affect the video latency. 

Message 6 of 11
NeilS
NETGEAR Expert

Re: M4200 -> M4300 Multicast Configuration (for NDI / Dante)

1. The document follows the Dante specification, and only MLD Snooping should be enabled. It's not
necessary to enable MLD Querier.

 

2. Correct that QoS would be a global setting for all ports, regardless of their respective VLAN
membership. In respect of Dante traffic, it's important to configure the respective IP DSCP queue
mapping, for example, IP DSCP 56 to Queue 6, etc.

 

3. The IGMP Snooping Querier status by default is enabled as "Querier Election Participate Mode". If you
access the CLI Console, this can be seen by issuing the following command from the "enable" prompt:
"show igmpsnooping querier detail". When there are two routers in the same subnet then only one of them
should send query messages. The election ensures only one router becomes the active querier, ie., the
router with the lowest IP address would be elected as the IGMP Querier for that subnet. The Wireshark
trace should also show the IGMP Query interval, which I believe would be 125 secs. The CLI console
command "show ip igmp interface vlan 1" would confirm this.

 

4. Not certain what may be the cause of the NDI video latency. I would recommend following the Dante
steps and also ensure the switch FW is updated to the latest version.

 

Please let us know the status.

Message 7 of 11
muzicman82
Aspirant

Re: M4200 -> M4300 Multicast Configuration (for NDI / Dante)

@NeilS 

 

Does Netgear (or Newtek) have recommendations as far as IGMP settings recommended for NDI multicast? Such as Query Interval, Max Response, and Expiration? What about Fast Leave?

I thought everything was working fine with about 6x NDI multicast sources between these two switches, and suddenly one source completely locked up and froze frame.

I am seeing a bunch of "Timer for Group Membership Interval has expired! Removing membership for VLAN 1 Mac" in the log files but not sure it was about that particular source. 

Message 8 of 11
NeilS
NETGEAR Expert

Re: M4200 -> M4300 Multicast Configuration (for NDI / Dante)

Hi...

 

Please see the NDI Network Guidelines attached.

 

These suggest the following:

 

• Disable Quality of Service
• Disable Jumbo Frames
• Enable Flow Control
• mDNS/Bonjour must be accessible for auto discovery
• Configure for each switch in multi-switch networks when using multicast

 

Set NDI connected switch ports to 1518, flow control on and untrusted QoS.

 

For Jumbo Frames and Flow Control settings, in the UI, navigate to:

 

"Switching => Ports => Frame Size". 

The default is Jumbo Frames, so check the box next to the port number and change to "1518".

 

Enable "Flow Control" by again selecting the port number and select "Enable" in the "Flow Control" column.

 

This would also need to be carried out on the M4200 if NDI devices are connected.

 

Please also send the switch Tech Support file:

https://kb.netgear.com/31439/How-do-I-send-diagnostic-files-from-my-Managed-Switch-to-NETGEAR-commun...

 

If the NDI devices are connected only to the M4300, do you still see the issue?

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

Model: GSM4352S|M4300-52G - Stackable Managed Switch with 48x1G and 4x10G including 2x10GBASE-T and 2xSFP+ Layer 3
Message 9 of 11
muzicman82
Aspirant

Re: M4200 -> M4300 Multicast Configuration (for NDI / Dante)

@NeilS 

 

Thanks. I've gone through the NDI Network Guidelines... 

 

On Flow Control and changing frame size, should I change for all ports including the 10Gig trunk port connecting the two switches? QoS is configured for Dante, which is VLAN2, and I believe those settings apply to all VLANs? 

 

Is setting the frame size to 1518 effectively disabling Jumbo Frames?

 

I will work to get switch configs posted when I can get into the site.

 

 

Message 10 of 11
NeilS
NETGEAR Expert

Re: M4200 -> M4300 Multicast Configuration (for NDI / Dante)

It should be fine to just change the frame size for the ports to which NDI devices are connected and not necessary to change on the uplink.

 

Once the default frame size of 9198 for jumbo frames is reconfigured for 1518 on a particular port where an NDI device is connected, this will disable jumbo frames for that port.

 

Only Dante devices should utilise the specific IP DSCP queue.

 

If any further issues, please also test the NDI devices when connected to the M4300 (if possible).

This would help with elimination.

 

Once the changes are made, please confirm the status and send the Tech Support file.

Model: GSM4352S|M4300-52G - Stackable Managed Switch with 48x1G and 4x10G including 2x10GBASE-T and 2xSFP+ Layer 3
Message 11 of 11
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