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Troubleshooting Unstable 10GBASE-SR Connection (M4300 - M4200)

muzicman82
Aspirant

Troubleshooting Unstable 10GBASE-SR Connection (M4300 - M4200)

I have a M4300 connected to a M4200 with two 10GBASE-SR transceivers of the same model. They are these by 10Gtek. I've never had a problem with their stuff before.. in fact I find them quite good. 

 

The link is a CAT6A (23AWG) UTP. It's not shielded but there are no other cables near this and it is only about a 40ft connection. I would do fiber but it isn't practical due to frequent connect/disconnect. 

 

This link is stable and error free for hours at a time, but occasionally, I'll noice it goes dead and the Monitoring page will show hundreds of Link Down events. If I unplug the cable from one end and plug in, it's fine. It's also fine if I attempt to break the connection by wigglging the plug at either end.

 

How can I best troubleshoot this? I don't have access to a qualifier.

Model: GSM4328S|M4300-28G - Stackable Managed Switch with 24x1G and 4x10G including 2x10GBASE-T and 2xSFP+ Layer 3
Message 1 of 10
muzicman82
Aspirant

Re: Troubleshooting Unstable 10GBASE-SR Connection (M4300 - M4200)

Well, 

 

The link was stable for over a day.. and then today it acted up again... 

 

When it happens, I get a log message on the M4300 "SFP interrupt received on the unit" message. 

 

I pulled the SFP from the M4200 and it was VERY hot. Is it possible it is overheating? 

Message 2 of 10
msi
Luminary
Luminary

Re: Troubleshooting Unstable 10GBASE-SR Connection (M4300 - M4200)

Hi

 

You are actually using 10GBASE-T  as 10GBASE-SR stands for multi mode fiber. And yes, they can run quite hot.* If frequent connect/disconnect is a issue like you wrote, I'd look out for a DAC instead. But at your length an AOC (active optical cable) could also be worth a look, they seem to be cheaper than DACs given the 40ft (12m) length you need.

 

Hope that helps a bit in your decision making. I don't have any M4200 but they seem to be rather compact units thus likely are not equipped with powerful fans to get the heat away from these toasty modules while generally speaking most M4300 have more powerful (noisier) fans so that might not cause any problems there.

 

* As even confirmed by servethehome in their review: https://www.servethehome.com/10gtek-asf-10g-t-10gbase-tx-sfp-to-10gbase-t-module-review/

Message 3 of 10
muzicman82
Aspirant

Re: Troubleshooting Unstable 10GBASE-SR Connection (M4300 - M4200)

Yeah I realize it is -T.. it was late and the switch reports it as -SR. Could the heat be what is causing the problem?

 

I can't use a DAC or AOC because this is a portable desk and needs to be disconnected frequently. The two switches are not in the same room. I chose copper because I don't want the client to have to clean fiber connections with every plug-in (several times a week). 

 

Message 4 of 10
LaurentMa
NETGEAR Expert

Re: Troubleshooting Unstable 10GBASE-SR Connection (M4300 - M4200)

I am sorry for this issue -

 

I am afraid the third-party transceiver isn't supported well because it doesn't announce itself correctly to the switch under the switch normal operating conditions (heat could be a factor, others too such as bad EEPROM identification or communication, etc.)

 

NETGEAR designs and tests its switches with NETGEAR modules, and vice versa.

NETGEAR policy is to use NETGEAR modules when third-party modules are determined to cause a problem.

It would be a good thing to use a NETGEAR module here, could you test the AXM765 10GBASE-T transceiver?

 

Regards,

Message 5 of 10
muzicman82
Aspirant

Re: Troubleshooting Unstable 10GBASE-SR Connection (M4300 - M4200)

@LaurentMa I understand 3rd party module policies but it is hard to stomach the Netgear SFPs when they are more than 5X the cost of most 3rd party ones. I've used this brand's SFPs in the past with no problems so I didn't expect a problem.

That said, what does that log message actually mean?

Message 6 of 10
msi
Luminary
Luminary

Re: Troubleshooting Unstable 10GBASE-SR Connection (M4300 - M4200)

DAC and AOC should be a good for regular disconnects but if you can't use them  here ... allas. 10GBASE-T with SFP+ can be somewhat picky. Even Mikrotik has published a general guidance on their S+RJ10 modules where they recommend not installing their 10GBASE-T modules to close together du to the heat their modules need to dissipate.

 

Interestingly the module mentioned by @LaurentMa is not listed in the Hardware Installation Guide for the M4200 and the respective M4300 guide only mentions 2 models in the M4300 line who support them, while most M4300's don't: "Note: The AXM765 module is supported on switch models M4300-24XF and M4300-48XF only." It could actually be that there are valid reasons such heat, why Netgear doesn't mention them on the M4200 and mentions specific models in the M4300 line who can cope with them.

 

Maybe could try one of the 5Gbit/s port on the M4200 and get RJ45 module that explicitely supports NBASE-T (as AXM765 doesn't explicitely mention support for 2.5 and 5 Gbit/s). Servethehome has compiled a list of all the modules that they have tested, including support for 2.5 and 5 Gbit/s data rates. Lower rates usually need less power and thus you might get a stable connection that is still up to 5x faster than good old 1000BASE-T. The 10GBASE-T ports on the M4300-28 also only mentions 1G/10G rates.*

 

I also wanted to add that while yes, Netgears' modules cost more than third party modules, their price is much more acceptable compared to the premium price of other big vendors. Generally speaking Netgear has been refreshingly open about not locking out third party modules, but they cannot support them for obvious reasons - thus we keep some original spares on hand for the "just in case".

 

* So far, only the M4300-96X (using APM408C or APM408P modules) and M4300-16X support 2.5 and 5 Gbit/s on integrated ports.

Message 7 of 10
schumaku
Guru

Re: Troubleshooting Unstable 10GBASE-SR Connection (M4300 - M4200)


@muzicman82 wrote:

I would do fiber but it isn't practical due to frequent connect/disconnect. 


Both the RJ45 and the SFP(+) housing copper connects are wear out - that's why these are not suggested for frequent connect/disconnect. Fiber ferules on the other hand don't wear - if kept clean - just the cheap LC plastic clips do.

 

Assuming the switches are mounted on some boxes/portable racks is using a short fiber patch to Neutrik opticalCON e.g. DUO. QUAD, ... Yes, this has a price tag for many good reasons.

 

There is no free beer.

Message 8 of 10
schumaku
Guru

Re: Troubleshooting Unstable 10GBASE-SR Connection (M4300 - M4200)


@muzicman82 wrote:

When it happens, I get a log message on the M4300 "SFP interrupt received on the unit" message. 


The SFP(+) I2C link is flapping why ever - heat is well possile on these -T modules.

Message 9 of 10
muzicman82
Aspirant

Re: Troubleshooting Unstable 10GBASE-SR Connection (M4300 - M4200)

The connect/disconnect point for the user is a Neutrik etherCON CAT6A series connector and panel mount jack. Those are far more durable than even opticalCON.

Message 10 of 10
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