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REDUX: Problem with NET VIEW, W10, R7000, most recent firmware (including V1.0.9.20)

EruvWeather
Apprentice

REDUX: Problem with NET VIEW, W10, R7000, most recent firmware (including V1.0.9.20)

This is just a "ah-hah" moment regarding a very old thread:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Nighthawk-WiFi-Routers/Problem-with-NET-VIEW-W10-R7000-most-recent-...

 

For those of you who are on the latest version of Windows 10 (1809) ... this issue has now been acknowledged and resolved without any manual-user bend-over-backwards work-arounds:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4469342

 

The one catch is, since SMB1 is disabled in Win10 (at least by default), you still do have to map the drive. But, as I discovered due to the recent need to reset my router to factory defaults, your router may automatically appear in the "Network Locations" seciont of "My Computer" if UPnP is turned on. The router now also shows in Network under "Media Devices" and "Network Infrastructure."

 

Good to know it only took Microsoft 13 months to fix this problem ;-)

 

 

 

Model: R7000|Nighthawk AC1900 Dual Band WiFi Router
Message 1 of 7
schumaku
Guru

Re: REDUX: Problem with NET VIEW, W10, R7000, most recent firmware (including V1.0.9.20)


@EruvWeather wrote:

For those of you who are on the latest version of Windows 10 (1809) ... this issue has now been acknowledged and resolved without any manual-user bend-over-backwards work-arounds:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4469342 

 


Acknowledged? Can't see any of the listed items related to somehow magically bringing back the NetBIOS name resolution and device discovery. And hey, its very unlikely to happen anyway. 

 

@EruvWeather wrote:

 The one catch is, since SMB1 is disabled in Win10 (at least by default), you still do have to map the drive. 

Still nothing wrong enabling the CIFS/SMB 1.0 Client and Server feature sets on Windows 10. A standard administrator task, no bendover-backward whatever required. If your server - here the Nighthawk -  or any other legacy NAS or the like offer higher SMB protocols the Windows systems will do a protocol negotiation, which commonly ends on the highest SMB protocol available on both sides. 

 

@EruvWeather wrote:

 But, as I discovered due to the recent need to reset my router to factory defaults, your router may automatically appear in the "Network Locations" seciont of "My Computer" if UPnP is turned on. The router now also shows in Network under "Media Devices" and "Network Infrastructure." 

Right click in the Explorer  header line (right where Name, Category, Workgroup are) and add Discovery Method - and let us know what is shown there for the Nighthawk - WSD or NetBIOS or whatever.

 

Both the "Media Devices" (permitting the MiniDLNA/ReadyDLNA resp. Plex with UPnP enabled on the R9000 is up) and the "Network Infrastructure" (with UPnP/SSDP devices made visible) were always shown in almost any Windows 7/8/8.1/10 build I've seen the last few years. Both are making use of UPnP SSDP based on IP Multicast. And both can't be used to map a shared folder by the way. Zero change in this aspect. If these did not show before your router factory reset - afraid, it's very obvious where the problem was before. No reason to be nice to Netgear. 

 

Message 2 of 7
EruvWeather
Apprentice

Re: REDUX: Problem with NET VIEW, W10, R7000, most recent firmware (including V1.0.9.20)


 

@EruvWeather wrote:

 The one catch is, since SMB1 is disabled in Win10 (at least by default), you still do have to map the drive. 

Still nothing wrong enabling the CIFS/SMB 1.0 Client and Server feature sets on Windows 10. A standard administrator task, no bendover-backward whatever required. If your server - here the Nighthawk -  or any other legacy NAS or the like offer higher SMB protocols the Windows systems will do a protocol negotiation, which commonly ends on the highest SMB protocol available on both sides.  


Actually, there is something wrong with enabling SMB 1.0. It's a significant security risk. It is no longer supported by Microsoft as far as I know.

 

The ReadyShare Drive no longer shows in the "Network" computers on the shortcut menu of Explorer, but it does not show in other places, by design.

 

Believe me, I have taken Netgear to task for other issues. This was not their issue. Microsoft needed to do a better job of explaining changes they made, and how that would affect the visibility of network shares, etc.

 

 

Model: R7000|Nighthawk AC1900 Dual Band WiFi Router
Message 3 of 7
schumaku
Guru

Re: REDUX: Problem with NET VIEW, W10, R7000, most recent firmware (including V1.0.9.20)


@EruvWeather wrote:

Actually, there is something wrong with enabling SMB 1.0. It's a significant security risk. It is no longer supported by Microsoft as far as I know.

 


SMB 1.0/CIFS/NetBIOS is a feature readily available as an optional install. While Microsoft does have no reason to have it enabled - because we no longer need it in plain M$ environments it's still available and supported for legacy purposes. You could still suppress SMB 1.0 to be used - but this would require some more acrobatics.

 

@EruvWeather wrote:

The ReadyShare Drive no longer shows in the "Network" computers on the shortcut menu of Explorer, but it does not show in other places, by design.

1. In fact - even with the feature enabled, the ReadyShare thingie is a hit and miss. And I'm going in and out at customers and friends with Netgear routers. Even the "leading-edge" R9000 itsn't whee it has to be, years after it's introduction to the market At few sites or on few occurrence, it does show up (again, permitting there is the NetBIOS name resolution and discovery in place, and no Internet bugware security does prohibit it), but in general, it does not show up - while several other legacy systems perfectly show up.

That's a thing Netgear has to fix:  Reliability for ReadyShare NetBIOS host announcement and name resolution capabilities.

 

But wait, there is more:

 

@EruvWeather wrote:

 

Believe me, I have taken Netgear to task for other issues. This was not their issue. Microsoft needed to do a better job of explaining changes they made, and how that would affect the visibility of network shares, etc.

Sure it's a Netgear issue, in fact it's a multi-layer. Netgear has ignored the annoucnements from yers ago (!!!) that SMB 1.0/CIFS (including NetBIOS discovery and name resolution) will be dropped one day. Now Microsoft has taken the first steps and made it an optional feature. QNAP made it, Synology made it. ReadyNAS made it. AsusStore made it.

2. Support of SMB 2.0/2.1/3.0/3.x has made it to very few Netgear routers only, let's say " selected" ones were users like us made nosie. Many others are ignored nad left back.
To be addressed by Netgear: SMB 2.x/3.0/3.x protocols must be added for all Nighthawk, Cxxxx, Dxxxx, Rxxxx.

 

3. Making ReadyShare visible and resolveable by WSDiscovery - the new standard used by Microsoft for years. Many NAS vendors have added WSD, inlcuding Netgear ReadyNAS. Only the Netgear junk product departement does either not understand, sleep, or ignore. 
To be addressed by Netgear: Adding WSDiscovery support.

 

At that point, the need to enable the CIFS/SMB 1.0 Client _and_ CIFS/SMB 1.0 Server (here is the NetBIS name resolution bundled unfortunately) is gone - and only the support for some higher SMB protocols would be on the hot list.

 

Arguing about the many supposedly user-friendly if-then-else Microsoft has added for existing Windows 10 systems and/or new installed Windows 10 system is pretty much irrelevant. It's their part, their game, their plan, their industry standard. And Netgear can either follow or loose customers. No help from Microsoft is required.

 

Message 4 of 7
schumaku
Guru

Re: REDUX: Problem with NET VIEW, W10, R7000, most recent firmware (including V1.0.9.20)

Last, why SMB 1.0 is obsolete for Microsoft so they made it optional:

 

  • It's no longer required in the Microsoft ecosystem
  • it does not allow packet signing (most NAS systems don't support signature - or the performance is awful on SAMBA [Apple macOS does default to signing, but it's suggested to disable it for performance reasons in combination with most consumer and business NAS!])
  • it does not allow packet encryption (as above, big processing overhead, not feasible for small service CPUs as typically available on a router [supported on negotiation while using SMB 3.0 on the R9000 for example])

 

Often people argue some SMB 1.0 protocol stack overflow vulnerabilities. These vulnerabilities had been addressed by SAMBA updates within days, most are backportable to older SAMBA versions. I don't have the bigger picture on SAMBA version on the Netgear routers - but would not wonder one second if older or poorly maintained models still have a vulnerable SMB 1.0 [and no other choice] in place.

 

Enough said. Fact is that Netgear does sleep and ignore this among many other issues. 

Message 5 of 7
IrvSp
Master

Re: REDUX: Problem with NET VIEW, W10, R7000, most recent firmware (including V1.0.9.20)


@schumaku wrote:

 

3. Making ReadyShare visible and resolveable by WSDiscovery - the new standard used by Microsoft for years. Many NAS vendors have added WSD, inlcuding Netgear ReadyNAS. Only the Netgear junk product departement does either not understand, sleep, or ignore. 
To be addressed by Netgear: Adding WSDiscovery support.

 

At that point, the need to enable the CIFS/SMB 1.0 Client _and_ CIFS/SMB 1.0 Server (here is the NetBIS name resolution bundled unfortunately) is gone - and only the support for some higher SMB protocols would be on the hot list.

 


I've had an OPEN CASE on this since 3/31/2018 and Support has closed it on me twice calling it an MS problem. See Windows Explorer WILL work, but ONLY if you enter the IP Address in the Address bar. You can't do a NET VIEW as the router can't answer and causes it to fail IF you are not running SMB 1 in W10. MS wants the two Function Discovery Services running, but even then, the router doesn't respond. NO WSDiscovery Support, but I can't get them to admit it. I have a Windows Explorer replacement and it just doesn't work. I fear they will close the case again.

Message 6 of 7
IrvSp
Master

Re: REDUX: Problem with NET VIEW, W10, R7000, most recent firmware (including V1.0.9.20)

Why are there 2 threads almost identical on this?

Message 7 of 7
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