Reply

Re: Smart Connect

tadhgp
Initiate

Smart Connect

I enabled Smart Connect on my Nighthawk X6 R8000 and ever single connection goes to 2.4G. When I add a new device it also goes there. Nothing goes to 5G. Did I do something wrong?

Model: R8000|Nighthawk X6 AC3200 Smart WIFI Router
Message 1 of 31
myersw
Master

Re: Smart Connect

Probably not. Smart connect should really be called dumb connect. 

Most folks turn it off due to issues. 

--Bill
ISP Comcast, Modem-Netgear CM1150V, Router-Unifi Security Gateway-Pro4, AP-2 Unifi AP-LR
Tesla > Edison
Message 2 of 31
microchip8
Master

Re: Smart Connect

There is nothing "smart" about NETGEAR's Smart Connect. In fact, many folks disable it as it's not working like it should. There are also reports of dropping WiFi on devices when Smart Connect is turned on

Routing: NETGEAR R7800 - Voxel Firmware 1.0.2.89SF & Kamoj addon
Switching: 2x NETGEAR 8-ports (GS108v4) / 1x NETGEAR 16-ports (JGS516v2)
Desktop: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X - Server: Intel Core i7-7700K - NAS: Intel Pentium G4400, 16 TB
Message 3 of 31

Re: Smart Connect

Remember, Smart Connect works by giving both 2.4 Ghz and 5 Ghz the same SSID and password.

 

Check that your stuff really is connected at 2.4 GHz.

Just another user.

My network DM200 -> R7800 -> GS316 -> PL1000 -> Orbi RBR40 -> Orbi RBS50Y -> RBS40V
Message 4 of 31
Wladue613
Guide

Re: Smart Connect

Smart connect suuuuucks.

Just make two different SSIDs and choose which to hook to which.
Message 5 of 31
Pro4TLZZ
Tutor

Re: Smart Connect

never trust smart connect or combine ssids, they usually do not allocate the devices properly

Message 6 of 31
IrvSp
Master

Re: Smart Connect

You did NOTHING wrong. What is quite probably the problem is that you don't understand Smart Connect. All RADIO's, the 2.4 and 5Ghz Radio's share the SAME SSID and PASSWORD.

 

Who goes to what BAND, the ROUTER makes that choice. How it does it? It somehow figures out what the device requires and puts it on that BAND (sometimes). If you have only AC devices, they will be put on the 5Ghz bands 'evenly'. N devices can be tricky, some might go to the 2.4Ghz band. All single band devices (those that can only see 2.4 Ghz SSID's) will go on the 2.4Ghz band.

 

Did you actually check the devices to see where they were connected to? Some Device Map's and Access Control lists will show that too.

Message 7 of 31
DaWeav
Guide

Re: Smart Connect

Well, it's too bad that Smart Connect does not work the way that Netgear explains it in their knowledge base (KB) article. In the Netgear KB, they advise that only the 5Ghz radio bands are combined together. No mention of the 2.4Ggz in the article. It's just on the routers admin GUI that they say Smart Connect will include the 2.4Ghz too. I sure wish they did do Smart Connect like it explains it in their KB article because that would be the best real world use of this feature.

 

https://kb.netgear.com/25346/What-is-Smart-Connect-and-how-do-I-enable-or-disable-it-on-my-Nighthawk...

 

Update!

I just tried something that the R8000P router allowed me to do. I just set both 5Ghz radio bands in the admin GUI to the same SSID and it let me. It rebooted and the admin GUI shows that both 5Ghz radios are on the same SSID, but different bands. And amazingly when I look at the devices listing, it's showing me that the 5Ghz devices are connected to either the '5Ghz Wireless' or the 'Second 5Ghz Wireless'. And it's practically an even split with four devices on one and five devices on the other one. Wow!!!

Model: R8000P|Nighthawk X6S AC4000 Tri Band WiFi Router
Message 8 of 31
IrvSp
Master

Re: Smart Connect

It seems NG is changing the initial tr-band SC to use all bands. Did that with the V1.0.4.28 R8000 f/w, before that it was only the 2 5Ghz bands it managed. Assume the same was done at some point on the R8000P.

 

Read the link you posted and the bottom link on that page. NG also uses 'load balancing', explained on that 2nd link and links on that page. Essentially it doesn't enforce 'which is the better band to use' all the time but will balance the number of devices newly connecting to keep the bands usage the same. You can or could have a G speed device on a 5Ghz band. Also mixing of N and AC devices on 5Ghz bands.

 

When connecting to either 5Ghz band, the higher one, 5-2, is the fastest, and AC devices should use it. Bands can operate with mixed devices, but will generally slow down for the slower device is speed.

 

As for your update, they might be connecting to each band, and probably using the load balancing to do that, but again, you'd be better off if you could keep N and AC devices on individual bands.

 

Some routers do have settings for those bands to limit who can connect to each one. I have one that allows me to set the higher 5Ghz channel band to AC only for instance.

Message 9 of 31

Re: Smart Connect


@DaWeav wrote:

Well, it's too bad that Smart Connect does not work the way that Netgear explains it in their knowledge base (KB) article. In the Netgear KB, they advise that only the 5Ghz radio bands are combined together.

 

The manual for the R8000P listed in your footer does not mention Smart Connect. They added that later, like they did for my R7800. This means that the man ul does not include the usual reference to Smart Connect:

 

"Smart Connect selects the fastest WiFi band for your device. For Smart Connect to work, the 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz bands must use the same WiFi network name (SSID) and network key (password). That means that when you connect to the router with WiFi, you see only one SSID that connects to both bands."

 

If I look at the settings in the browser graphical user interface (GUI) for my R7800, the "switch for Smart Connmect" clear says:

 


Enable Smart Connect - Let the router intelligently select the best 2.4 GHz or 5 GHz WiFi band for your WiFi connections. Smart Connect requires that the 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz WiFi networks use the same WiFi network name (SSID), security options, and password.

 

I'd expect to see the same warning for any router that supports this feature.

 

These things are subject to change. If you look at the date on the KnowledgeBase article you will see that it is "Last Updated:01/18/2017". In real-world dates that means 18 January 2017. Not quite two years old, but getting there.

 

Unfortunately, this is unlikely to be the only KnowledgeBase article that is out of date. I'll see if I can get someone to update it. It needs to be right, especially for poeopole who won't find this information in their manuals!

 

 

 

 

Just another user.

My network DM200 -> R7800 -> GS316 -> PL1000 -> Orbi RBR40 -> Orbi RBS50Y -> RBS40V
Message 10 of 31
DaWeav
Guide

Re: Smart Connect

You might also want to add what I updated to my post too.

Update!

I just tried something that the R8000P router allowed me to do. I just set both 5Ghz radio bands in the admin GUI to the same SSID and it let me. It rebooted and the admin GUI shows that both 5Ghz radios are on the same SSID, but different bands. And amazingly when I look at the devices listing, it's showing me that the 5Ghz devices are connected to either the '5Ghz Wireless' or the 'Second 5Ghz Wireless'. And it's practically an even split with four devices on one and five devices on the other one. Wow!!!

 

Message 11 of 31
schumaku
Guru

Re: Smart Connect


@michaelkenward wrote:

If I look at the settings in the browser graphical user interface (GUI) for my R7800, the "switch for Smart Connmect" clear says:

 


Enable Smart Connect - Let the router intelligently select the best 2.4 GHz or 5 GHz WiFi band for your WiFi connections. Smart Connect requires that the 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz WiFi networks use the same WiFi network name (SSID), security options, and password.

 

I'd expect to see the same warning for any router that supports this feature.

Hmmmm ... if this would be anywhere near to the truth, and to the standards implemented, . ... I would agree. Afraid, it's not on the router or the wireless AP to select the band. It can just provide information to the clients - permitting the clients are supporting the IEEE radio resource management extensions from 2008 - these can decide on their roaming activity in a smarter way.

Message 12 of 31
IrvSp
Master

Re: Smart Connect

Netgear has a lot of varying comments on Smart Connect.

 

The original link posted above:

 

https://kb.netgear.com/25346/What-is-Smart-Connect-and-how-do-I-enable-or-disable-it-on-my-Nighthawk...

 

Which is from Jan 2017 as mentioned already probably was true for then. It states "Your router uses Smart Connect to choose the best radio band for your device to give you the best WiFi performance." Well, there is a link at the bottom:

 

https://kb.netgear.com/25342/What-is-tri-band-WiFi-and-how-does-my-Nighthawk-router-select-the-best-... 

 

Not totally the same info.

 

===============

Smart Connect intelligently selects the best WiFi band for each dual-band device to optimize connection speed and performance based on that device’s speed and performance. The router automatically manages your WiFi connections, performing load balancing across the two 5 GHz radios. This additional WiFi bandwidth combined with the intelligence to segregate traffic based on WiFi speed and load balancing provides the best performance for multiple WiFi devices in the home.

===============

 

First it talks about dual-band devices, and next uses 'Load balancing'.

 

Well, a dual-band device one would think would be best to use the higher speed band, the 5Gz. However, that may not be the best based on range and distance from the router... no mention of how this is handled. Next is the 2 5Ghz bands... assuming only N and AC devices would be using this, you'd want N devices on the 'slower' 5Ghz band and AC devices on the 'faster' band. Load Balancng/Leveling, even if only applied to the 2 5Ghz bands defeats this purpose.

 

The last link on that page describes Load Leveling, https://kb.netgear.com/25345/What-is-load-balancing-and-how-does-my-Nighthawk-X6-R8000-router-use-th... 

 

That one is from Nov. 2018, and seems to be not well written.

 

First it mentions 3 bands and then 2 bands:

 

================

The router uses load balancing to distribute WiFi connections among all three WiFi bands, to ensure that both the WiFi bands are utilized. Load balancing avoids overloading a single 5 GHz band and ensures that both the WiFi bands are utilized and device connections are spread across the two bands.

================

 

Clearly not corrected for a change in the number of bands covered, probably due to tri-bands coming out after older routers only had 2 bands? I suspect the 'spreading' is really over all 3 bands which is what I did see with my R8000. It is also wrong in the diagram on the page. My phone is a dual-band in that is can see all 3 bands of my router (2 5Ghz are basically one band in terms of the device), but it is an AC device, not N.

 

Mixing N and AC on the same radio can cause slow downs for the AC device. It depends on the router implementation and if all devices support MU-MIMO. N and AC support different channel widths I recall and some routers will not switch and fall to the lower usage thereby slowing down AC devices if an N device is connected. NG's 'balancing' will overide the devices best band to use and could even put (possibly) a G device on a 5Ghz SSID.

 

Moral here, manually assign devices to the best possible band. Drawback, you could have a major device count difference on bands. Having that really is only 1/2 the story. How many active at one time needs to be taken into consideration. Too many devices at the same time sharing the band can overall slow all devices down compared to a band with few active devices...

Message 13 of 31
schumaku
Guru

Re: Smart Connect

Leaving that the tri-band router SmartConnect design and implementation has changed since the publication - it is covering all three WiFi interfaces: Either case, the information of both KB entries is technically wrong - or at least heavily misleading. Smart Connect can't define which band or radio is used, nor can it do load balancing. Pure marketing.

Message 14 of 31
IrvSp
Master

Re: Smart Connect

@schumaku 

 

Kurt, why do you think this, "Smart Connect can't define which band or radio is used"? Surely the router knows how many devices are connected to each radio? Easy to keep track of it too although I'm not sure if it knows when a device turns off or leaves the SSID range?

 

My limited use of Smart Connect on the R8000's V1.0.4.28 where the Tri-band version was implements as well as the prior only 5Ghz implementation did show basically an even distribution of devices. Also mixing devices on the 5Ghz bands (I only have N and AC I think, not sure about a coffee pot though, but I think it is N?).

 

My new router allows me to set a 5Ghz band to AC only however. Even then, I'm not sure how that works? Have not tried to connect an N device to that band?

Message 15 of 31
IrvSp
Master

Re: Smart Connect

@schumaku 

Kurt, actually meant to include "nor can it do load balancing." as I was talking about Load Balancing.

 

NOTE:, I had to add this and it seems I can NO LONGER edit my response, even seconds after posting it? New forum s/w again I guess?

Message 16 of 31
myersw
Master

Re: Smart Connect


@IrvSp wrote:

 

NOTE:, I had to add this and it seems I can NO LONGER edit my response, even seconds after posting it? New forum s/w again I guess?


I have not been able to edit response for sometime now. Used to be a selection you could make on the upper right of the message to be able to select edit. Also gave selection to report a fishing post to the moderators. 

 

Another example of Netgear going in the ditch. According to the bottom under need more help purple bar is a copy write date. 1996 to 2019. Wonder if 1996 is when this forum software was implemented. There sure are better forum software out there. Most that I have been on now allow the browser to do the spell check for example. Guess this matches their firmware now that I think about it. 

--Bill
ISP Comcast, Modem-Netgear CM1150V, Router-Unifi Security Gateway-Pro4, AP-2 Unifi AP-LR
Tesla > Edison
Message 17 of 31
schumaku
Guru

Re: Smart Connect

It's always the wireless client deciding to which radio it does connect to ... advanced clients maintain a list of alternate APs automatically, enhanced ones have the ability to query the AP for alternate ("neighboring") access point, what includes of course radios in the same physical AP or router.

 

Spotted the inability to edit posts on some (new created) community sections before, here it still worked not so long ago.

Message 18 of 31
schumaku
Guru

Re: Smart Connect


@myersw wrote:

I have not been able to edit response for sometime now. Used to be a selection you could make on the upper right of the message to be able to select edit.


Works for me here in this community section - doesn't in later opened sections however...

Edit post OK.PNG

 


@myersw wrote:

@IrvSp wrote:

NOTE:, I had to add this and it seems I can NO LONGER edit my response, even seconds after posting it? New forum s/w again I guess?


... 1996 to 2019. Wonder if 1996 is when this forum software was implemented. There sure are better forum software out there. Most that I have been on now allow the browser to do the spell check for example. ...


Not that bad - there is older forum software in the field ... however the look and feel can be varied on all these. Look at the [censored] stuff Syno has deployed some weeks ago - and you will be happy to come back here again.

 

I'm convinced some commissions in Netgear thought having the SaaS based spell-checker along with the fancy RTF editor is a good idea - unfortunately it's a pain in the back (don't worry, there are worse ones!). In my opinion, Netgear should disable it - or better give the opportunity to control this feature as part of the personal preferences - @ChristineT please.

 

Message 19 of 31

Re: Smart Connect


@IrvSp wrote:

 

NOTE:, I had to add this and it seems I can NO LONGER edit my response, even seconds after posting it? New forum s/w again I guess?


I can get in and edit if I'm quick. As soon as someone else gets in – this has been a busy conversation – the software locks it.

 

Of course, this may vary depending on some sort of algorithm that discriminates against some people.

 

Edit 17:15:17

 

 

 

 

Just another user.

My network DM200 -> R7800 -> GS316 -> PL1000 -> Orbi RBR40 -> Orbi RBS50Y -> RBS40V
Message 20 of 31
myersw
Master

Re: Smart Connect


@michaelkenward wrote:

Of course, this may vary depending on some sort of algorithm that discriminates against some people.

 

Edit 17:15:17

 

 

 

 


@schumaku Timing in my case does not count. When I post, there never is the selection on the upper right to make a selection such as edit after post. 

Guess they do not like me. Probably too many times of being negative. @michaelkenward will agree with that. Smiley Wink

--Bill
ISP Comcast, Modem-Netgear CM1150V, Router-Unifi Security Gateway-Pro4, AP-2 Unifi AP-LR
Tesla > Edison
Message 21 of 31
IrvSp
Master

Re: Smart Connect


@michaelkenward wrote:

@IrvSp wrote:

 

NOTE:, I had to add this and it seems I can NO LONGER edit my response, even seconds after posting it? New forum s/w again I guess?


I can get in and edit if I'm quick. As soon as someone else gets in – this has been a busy conversation – the software locks it.

 

Of course, this may vary depending on some sort of algorithm that discriminates against some people.

 

Edit 17:15:17


I guess it might be me? You are a different level than me, maybe that is why you can? I sure can't. I tried within seconds the last time.

 

Will try after this posts,  If I get in, I'll edit it and say so. Can't, no edit, I couldn't edit it.

Message 22 of 31
IrvSp
Master

Re: Smart Connect

@schumaku@michaelkenward, it has to be your 'level', Master doesn't cut it anymore...

Message 23 of 31
DaWeav
Guide

Re: Smart Connect

On the R8000P router GUI it states:

"Enable Smart Connect - Let the router select the best WiFi band for your WiFi connection. With Smart Connect, you must use the same WiFi network name (SSID), security options, and password for all radios for which you enable Smart Connect."

 

So, the way I intruprit that is that I don't have to enable Smart Connect via the 'check-box'. As long as I "use the same WiFi network name (SSID), security options, and password for all radios for which you (want to) enable Smart Connect", then I can 'Smart Connect' just the two 5GHz radio bands as long as I set them both to the "same WiFi network name (SSID), secuity options, and password".

 

As I mentioned, I was able to do that and set the SSID name on both 5GHz radios to the same name (example NetgearA), and left the 2.4Ghz on a different SSID name (example Netgear). The R8000P so far has not evenly load balanced the 5Ghz connected devices accross the two 5GHz radio bands with nine devices on the '5GHz Wireless' and four devices on the 'Second 5GHz Wireless', but whether or not it is supposed to 'load balance', it's at least better than having two different SSID names for each 5GHz radio band.

Model: R8000P|Nighthawk X6S AC4000 Tri Band WiFi Router
Message 24 of 31
schumaku
Guru

Re: Smart Connect

Can't speak for the tri-band routers like the R8000P - on dual-band routers supporting Smart Connect only one SSID can be configured, the other radio SSID (network names) can't be configured individually. This makes perfect sense.

Message 25 of 31
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