RAX80 regularly disconnects devices, then they reconnect

[Retired_Member]

Honestly if you're in the return window just take this thing back. I wish I could take mine back or at least have Netgear give me a different model router that actually works.

[CaptGPF]

I upgraded my firmware to: V1.0.1.70_1.0.30

It's been a week since I bit the bullet, and it seems to be more stable than the previous two versions - where I would get unstable connections.

The key settings you may want to try:

• Change your NTP Server away from Netgear's
• Wireless
  • Fragmentation Length 2346
  • CTS Threshold 2347
  • Long Preamble
  • Enable Explicit Beamforming / MU-MIMI - AX
  • Disable Smart Connect - this actually cuased mne problems
  • Enable 20/40 MHz Coexistence - otherwise, devices will drop off
  • LOCK your WIFI Channels to a low traffic channel

Like many others, this product has been a pill to set up and keep running - I just hope these settings work for some of you who do not have the luxury of returning this Albatross - until something irreperably breaks and forces us to purchase another router.

Since Netgear really didn't do anything to help us, I kepy to my word and have already dissuaded two colleagues to shop elsewhere.

[PDWhite]

CaptGPF,

I sympathize and concur. After weeks of banging my head against the wall changing settings, more than 12 support cases, numerous versions of the firmware and 2 replacement units, this box still won't work as it should. I can only conclude that currently, the RAX80 is an albatross.

I've owned several Netgear devices over the years and for the most part, they've done what they're advertised to do and been very reliable.

I finally called Netgear and my reseller and complained about the RAX80. The reseller is giving me the refund. Otherwise, I would have spent $375. for something with potential, but the RAX80 should still be in beta test. 

BTW: The potential speed of Wi-Fi 6 is very dependent on the distance from the transmitter. As such, I think that using a mesh network will be the best alternative. I just ordered one and it is not made by Netgear.

[dragonpak]

I found one way to make this working is to turn off the MU-MIMO, it is not compatible with AX function is on.  and choose channel 60. It is basically unusable when you select 100+ channel. Qos used to be a problem, you need to turn it on and reboot and turn it off again. 

[TomM_RAX80]

I have been having similar issues and it is the channel.  My system worked perfectly for 8 months.  I had to reboot about once every 3 to 4 weeks. What I was expecting for a new bleeding edge router.  Then everything went south, rebooting every couple of hours on some days.  I updated my time to use the government's NTP, it also failed several times, but didn't seem to affect my WiFi.  And ended up switching to Google and it runs fine.  I also spent a lot of time testing out different channels. After 3 months of trial and error, I found a channel that is working great: 104.  I am a software developer and have done my fair share of hardware installs and support in the last 30 years and the way it was failing just didn't make sense that it was hardware or the BIOS updates. At least for me, it was other transmission noise in the area causing the problem.  

NETGEAR, you need to add something in the Administration area to help me find the right channel.  I should not have to go through trial and error for 3 months to find a channel that works for me. It would be nice to set something up for a couple of weeks, analyzing all the channels and then telling me which one is best.  Then I can turn it off and manually select that channel.  Please consider adding this to the product!

[CaptGPF]

@TomM_RAX80- completely agree with you.  A lot of other routers have the ability display the channels currently in use within its vicinity - I cannot understand how a Premiumly Charged router can even be lacking in that basic functionality.  Sure they have the Wifi Analytics app  but that's lame when you can't do everything in the Router console.

@dragonpak- isn't AX supposed to supplement MIMO?  MIMO is a basic functionality since 802.11G - so having to disable this is really lame on NegGear's part.  Based on the AX Spec, MU-MIMO is a part of AX - but downstream only - with upstream support slated later.

All around, I wish Netgear would get their act together.  Aside from releasing a Pile of Junk with the RAX series, I would like them to seriously consider

• Making the advanced options configurable - such as beacon intervals and DTIM - Previous Netgear routers allow for this, why not the RAX?
• If they can't get AutoChannel selection to work, at least give us built-in tools to tune it itself
• Clean up their apps in the app store and have ONE unified app to do it all

[xjn]

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@CaptGPF wrote:

@TomM_RAX80- completely agree with you.  A lot of other routers have the ability display the channels currently in use within its vicinity - I cannot understand how a Premiumly Charged router can even be lacking in that basic functionality.  Sure they have the Wifi Analytics app  but that's lame when you can't do everything in the Router console.

@dragonpak- isn't AX supposed to supplement MIMO?  MIMO is a basic functionality since 802.11G - so having to disable this is really lame on NegGear's part.  Based on the AX Spec, MU-MIMO is a part of AX - but downstream only - with upstream support slated later.

All around, I wish Netgear would get their act together.  Aside from releasing a Pile of Junk with the RAX series, I would like them to seriously consider

• Making the advanced options configurable - such as beacon intervals and DTIM - Previous Netgear routers allow for this, why not the RAX?
• If they can't get AutoChannel selection to work, at least give us built-in tools to tune it itself
• Clean up their apps in the app store and have ONE unified app to do it all

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You can change the beacon interval by changing properties in the hidden settings menu. Need to login from browser and navigate to 

http://192.168.1.1/WiFi_HiddenPage.htm

[PDWhite]

One unified app to do it all? - Considering how well the RAX80's firmware settings are not synchronized, the chance of having a unified app written to control Netgear routers is beyond remote.

FYI: I tried running this RAX80 with AX enabled and MU-MIMO on and off. So far, there hasn't been a noticeable difference.

At this point, I'm simply rebooting the RAX80 twice a day, while waiting for the (non-RAX80) replacement to arrive.

[dragonpak]

yeah fully agree, I tried many rounds and found channel 60 is stable. it is stable for certain period, then suddenly freeze again. I guess once you select DFS channel, when there is a jam from nearby, or even slightest disturbence, it causes this router to go loop and hang then disconnect all its connections, it just not very solid , it should lock into the frequency more tightly.

another stupid thing about this router is , when you make some changes, then reboot, then all the sudden the max will drop 1/2, until you on the QoS and off again. the firmware is just very buggy. 

and btw, any Netgear people reading all these **bleep**? or just let us BS all the way and delete the thread later?  

[PDWhite]

The (non-Netgear) replacement for my RAX80 should arrive on Tuesday. However, since it is the middle of the night and no one else is using out Wi-Fi, I thought I'd attempt yet another reconfiguration of the RAX80 as a sanity check. - Note: these results still occur whether  the unit is configured for this house or the factory default settings...  I also turned much touted AX functionality off to see if that made a difference; it did not.

The same problems I've been commenting on in several places on the various RAX80 Community threads still occur, namely 5 GHz band not running at the advertised max speed, (4800 Mbps,) as per the on-line specifications. When set to that speed, the 5 GHz signal appears and disappears periodically on a signal scanner, but won't connect to any device in the house, including a newly purchased Intel-based AX adapter card for my Intel desktop system. I also turned much touted AX functionality off and on. but it made no difference. - Since the system was rebooted only moments ago, I haven't seen whether it goes into comatose mode, but I expect to see that bug manifest itself again after the unit has been running a while.

My sanity check also included a visit to the Netgear Store's RAX80 product web page. In there, it specifies the 4800 Mbps 5 GHz speed several times, as well as a few other niceties that don't appear to work as they should. I also scrolled down to the user reviews at the bottom and discovered that all of the reviews included there were rave reviews; which was a big factor for my decision to buy the RAX80 in the first place.

Bottom line: After using my original RAX80 and the two replacement units they sent, these problems still exist. - It should be noted that during the first 30 days after the original purchase, I created a case requesting a fix for the problems, or give me a refund. The defect saga continues. Honestly, I cannot remember when I purchased a device that was as unsatisfactory as the RAX80 has been. The reseller has agreed to take it back and refund my purchase price; I will be glad to finally be rid of it.  

[PDWhite]

Dragonpak,

I have these results running my 5 GHz on channel 44, which is not DFS, if I'm not mistaken. In that setting, my Wi-Fi monitor shows no other signals on that channel with plenty of room on either side. It also show 0% interference there. I also had the  setting at the factory default channel and got pleanty of interference because several neighbors are crowding onto that channel.

Regarding, the ***Bleep*** removal of very critical stuff, I have heard of at least one case of that happening. And, wouldn't you know; it was being critical9f the RAX80 specs.

BTW: Originally, the purchase decision for the RAX80 was my mistake. (Caveat Emptor, y'know.) The fundamental thing I overlooked was believing all of the excellent reviews on the Netgear product page and reading several very favorable on-line review/comparisons from the 'expert' review websites. - After buying the RAX80, I went back and started seeing much less favorable owner reviews on reseller product pages.

It is possible that most of the owners giving the box good reviews haven't gone much further than configuring it through the mobile app. Maybe ignorance really can be bliss...

 It's pretty clear that Netgear has produced a lemon and they don't want to back down.

Also, after seeing the history, I suspect that the real problem isn't the firmware, but something in the hardware design or its related microcode.

Presently, I have several Netgear Gigabit 'Pro' hubs on my fully CAT 6 network, and have owned several of their earlier Wi-Fi routers. Up 'til now, these have all been great. After this RAX80 debacle, I doubt I will ever buy a Netgear product again. Obviously, their standards have come way down.

[mafo5000]

I tried incorperating everyones suggestions and most of them, unfortuntaley, made the router perform worse than before. Turning off smart connect did help but (only slightly) not enough for me to keep the router. I've been messing with this thing for months and it's the end of the line for me. Luckily, the AmpliFi Alien Router just came in stock today so I will be switching over to that. Good luck to those who are sticking with this terrible product! 

[xjn]

I was about to order an Alien yesterday also when saw back in stock but after doing some research saw they have not added DFS channel support... the Alien only has two channels for 5GHz so people are getting even slower speeds sometimes since cannot move to unused frequencies yet. Also the WiFi 6 chip on Alien does not allow to change channel yet so stuck on channel it comes with.... gonna wait since seems all these new AX routers aren't ready yet.

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@mafo5000 wrote:

I tried incorperating everyones suggestions and most of them, unfortuntaley, made the router perform worse than before. Turning off smart connect did help but (only slightly) not enough for me to keep the router. I've been messing with this thing for months and it's the end of the line for me. Luckily, the AmpliFi Alien Router just came in stock today so I will be switching over to that. Good luck to those who are sticking with this terrible product! 

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[PDWhite]

Xjn,

My new router is not made by Netgear, but it is a tri-band ax router. It not only has good coverage, but it automatically finds the best channel. I've used a signal analyzer in every room of my 3200 sq. foot home, and also in the farthest away bay of my three car garage.

I live in a neighborhood where there has been a constant escallation of signal warfare from neighboring homes. The powerful signal cuts way down on the interference, which is another major factor in getting good throughput. - Another great plus is that this is a single router, but it is also a mesh-based product that means I could easily extend it, if I ever need to.

When I built the house, I had it wired for CAT 6, but there are now so many categories of household devices that rely on Wi-Fi, and I have lots of them.

So far, I've had no problem with this new Wi-Fi network hardware since I installed it. I'm just enjoying the heck out of it.

Netgear builds a lot of good stuff. Unfortunately, the RAX80 is a real flop.

[FredAloneForEve]

Witch router is it?

[TomM_RAX80]

Have you tried different channels?  That is the #1 thing that has made a difference.  I try to move to a new channel for at least two weeks to see how it performs over time and then moved on to the next one.  The 4th channel was the right one, so it took a couple of months, but since I have moved to channel 104, it has worked great.

[PDWhite]

The only ways channels make a difference is if there are too many others using that channel in your vicinity. Having a good Wi-Fi analyzer, make it easier to find one that his not being used by others close by. There is a problem with the higher channels, too. some of them overlap with frequencies being used by radar. Using those channels is always a crapshoot, unless you live in an area where radar interference is not likely.  

[GabboCH]

For me, changing Wi-Fi channels are also irrelevant.
Any Wi-Fi router should be able to negotiate which channel to use automatically.

Even my free non-branded internet provider router is capable to do this on both 2.4 & 5G channels.
A $500 top end router from Netgear should be able to do this no problem.

[kingjahrome]

With some persistence I was able to persuade Netgear to let me return the RAX80 for a refund.  It took an unbelievable amount of time, hours spent on the phone with their tech support, calling them out on twitter when their initial support in another country just "closed the case" unsolved, etc.  I first contacted them in October/November about the persistent issues with the router and finally got a refund check in hand only just last week.  Well I learned my lesson to buy from somewhere that has a longer than 14 day return policy next time, OR to be sure and put the product through it's paces the first week and return anything that isn't performing or locking up all the time.

So the router I ended up going with was a previous gen model also from Netgear: Nighthawk AC2300 from Best Buy.  So far it has been rock-solid and has never had any downtime as opposed to the near daily (or more) manual resets required with the RAX80.  And it's an upgrade from the N600 router.  I was highly skeptical about this recommendation and made sure to set it up day 1 and have not had a glitch/lockup or any need to reset it and it's been running for over a month since I sent in the old one.  For me, stability is far more important than "speed" or having the latest, especially when the latest is garbage.  It's unfortunate that most online reviews of products like the RAX80 just regurgitate feature-sets and don't really put products through their paces. 

[PDWhite]

Kingjahrome,

I finally got my reseller go take my RAX80 back, thanks...

This is only my opinion, but I suspect that the RAX80's problems are mainly in the hardware. Netgear may continue to try and resolve the problems in firmware, but I strongly suspect they will need to revise the circuitry before it will fully function as specified.

[kingjahrome]

Yes, hardware could be a possibility as well. Someone has a bug.  Could be in DSP's, FPGA's, firmware, or drivers.  They have to acknowledge they have an issue at all which they never have really.  The reply I got after they sent it to their engineering was "we cannot reproduce the issue, send him a refund."  They have my broken unit now, if they can't figure it out they aren't trying hard enough! 😄 I suppose I should let it go now.  Fortunate you could get the reseller to refund too.

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@PDWhite wrote:

Kingjahrome,

I finally got my reseller go take my RAX80 back, thanks...

This is only my opinion, but I suspect that the RAX80's problems are mainly in the hardware. Netgear may continue to try and resolve the problems in firmware, but I strongly suspect they will need to revise the circuitry before it will fully function as specified.

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[cliff344]

New firmware relased,1.0.2.76. Has anyone tried it?  I'm in fear I will waste another couple of hours of my life I won't get back digging out my brick only to find false promise.

[GabboCH]

I flashed it but given the current situation with the entire household at home I can't take the risk of bad reliability to test it right now.

However from some other threads the LAN disconnect issues are definitely still present & from the general release notes I don't see anything which would fix any of the WiFi or QoS problems.

[cliff344]

Yea I’ve seen the same thing. It’s somewhat concerning that Netgear would bother to issue an update and not address one of the main issues with this router. Many of the other issues can be considered minor to the operation of this unit, but for complete LAN disconnection issue, that basically make this an unusable product. I shake my head in disbelief every time I think Netgear has made an attempt to make this right. It just goes to show this company has lost any competency we might expect.

[cliff344]

Well since I have nothing but time sitting at home on a "Stay at home" order, I decided today to dust off the rax80 and download the new firmware (1.0.2.76). First problem, as discussed prior, when the last firmware was released, it could only be obtained by using the nighthawk app, this one was just the opposite.  The app said no update available, yet the update is available online for download. This is exactly opposite of the last update scenario.  Another blunder by Netgear.  So having now downloaded and istalled the update and getting things tweaked in, it is now operational.  Didn't do anything special except replicate the settings I use on my R8500.  Everything seems pretty stable, running 30+ devices.  I now have a little over 12 hours uptime so we shall see if things are still connected in the morning. I'm running about 500-650 Mbps wireless speed on both my IPad and iPhone, which is a tad faster than I was with my R8500.  Rechecked after 12 hours, and still holding true. I will report tomorrow if we are still connected.  Somehow as in past scenarios, that is usually the failing point of this router.

Cheers, and stay well all.  I will update tomorrow.