Is anyone else having serious reliability problems since this update?
Is anyone else having serious reliability problems since this update? I have an active support ticket open with netgear, but we've almost exhausted every configuration option. My roaming devices disconnect from the wifi and don't come back without resetting network settings. Many of my fixed devices cannot keep a connection. My wired backhaul was broken after this update and I had to systematically power cycle everything a few times to get it to come back, the orbi app showed wireless even though things were wired, etc. Even with wired backhaul restored, my devices are not keeping their connections.
I'm going to observe and capture more information over the weekend, but looking for community help in addition to netgear support.
Re: Is anyone else having serious reliability problems since this update?
I don't want to piggy back on your issue because I don't have Nest Cameras in the mix. However, I'm running the the same system and firmware, and it's been unreliable since I got it. The firmware update actually broke my wired backhaul and confused me for a while. Multiple system reboots ended up getting me back to where I thought I wanted to be, but the reliability is just not there on this system. I have an active ticket open with Netgear Support, but we've exhausted almost every configuration option available.
My roaming devices lose wifi regularly and can't reconnect, my fixed devices that used to work fine lose their connections, etc.
I'm going to open a similar community post to see if anyone has additional ideas after more observation this weekend.
I can fallback to different solutions and everything works fine. It's just the Orbis struggling sadly.
Re: Is anyone else having serious reliability problems since this update?
Sadly, I got the system as an early Christmas 'gift' in December. Since it was purchased from netgear.com I'm already past the return window.....I'll stick to Amazon or other from now on.
I'm still invested in fixing it for the good of the community, but losing hope. I'm an engineer by trade and fairly savvy with troubleshooting networking systems (doesn't mean I know everything, but I've tried and read a lot more than I wish to admit about this before opening a ticket). I hope whatever is happening can be fixed via a firmware update, but I can't currently trust this as my primary wifi solution since my wife and I work from home almost 100% of the time. We haven't taken a wifi outage in years. Everything is UPS protected so we literally survive power outages as long as the ISP is up. We haven't had an error free day since these were introduced into the house.
Re: Is anyone else having serious reliability problems since this update?
The best part of this is, I got these from netgear.com in December so the refund window has already passed according to support. The model of forcing paid subscriptions for features that are free on other offerings, and not allowing returns after breaking updates is a pretty awesome customer experience.
Re: Is anyone else having serious reliability problems since this update?
What Firmware version is currently loaded? What is the Mfr and model# of the Internet Service Providers modem/ONT the NG router is connected too? Be sure your using a good quality LAN cable between the modem and router. CAT6A STP is recommended.
What is the size of your home? Sq Ft? What is the distance between the router and 📡 satellite(s)? 30 feet or more is recommended in between RBR and RBS🛰️ to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected.
What channels are you using? Auto? Try Auto and 48 on 5Ghz. Or try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and 40 to 48 channel on 5Ghz. Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?
Is Armor, SPC, IoT and Separate 6Ghz SSID networks enabled?
How are the RBS connected to the RBR, directly behind the RBR or is there a LAN switch in between? Brand and model of this switch please. Using the 2.5Gb LAN Ports or 1Gb LAN ports for wired backhaul?
Has a power off for 1 minute then back ON with the ISP modem and router been performed since last update? Be sure to restart your network in this sequence: Turn off and unplug modem. Turn off router and computers. Plug in and turn on modem. Wait 2 minutes for it to connect. Turn on the router and wait 2 minutes for it to connect. Turn on computers and rest of network.
Re: Is anyone else having serious reliability problems since this update?
It looks like comments from other threads were aggregated here so context was lost. I was planning on opening a new thread with the summary and a better title.
Are you a netgear employee? If so, I have a small novel with all of this information going in the support ticket and would point you there. If not, I'll summarize here again for more community visibility.
Thank you for what you do. I've read most of the product documentation and the relevant community content already. Running out of ideas, so fresh perspective welcomed!
Re: Is anyone else having serious reliability problems since this update?
So if you can give us feedback to the questions presented, this will give us more of an idea of what you have and we can better help you in trouble shooting this. Not all users have the same configurations or environments which makes things different and not all users have the same problems as well.
If you read the information thats great, we still don't know what the specifics are and the questons presented will help direct us in our troubleshooting efforts. What this forum is for. Users helping users. My 9 series is working great for me.
Hope NG support can help you out then.
If not, then I would suggest that you return the system and find something else.
Re: Is anyone else having serious reliability problems since this update?
I'm happy to do provide all the data I have, configuration, trouble devices, etc.
My comment here is this is not a topic I created. I would actually appreciate it if my comments were put back on the original threads where they have context, and we start a new one with a different title. I said I was going to do this over the weekend, but somehow this got created on my behalf.
I'm not looking to waste anyone's time here. I'm observing the same behaviors several others are on this system. I'm glad your 9 series is working great and you in particular have been providing excellent support to the community. That is not the case for many others from numerous reviews and I'm willing to help try to isolate whatever scenario is causing that.
I bought the system from netgear.com and they are telling me it's past the 30-35 day refund window. I have time left on my 90 day support and the 1 year hardware warranty, but didn't want to escalate that just yet without giving this it's due diligence.
I'll be back with more detail ASAP. I don't like the way this topic was created with the lack of detail and context it has...
Re: Is anyone else having serious reliability problems since this update?
To be clear, I'm gong to provide feedback to your questions but I'm not doing it on this topic. This topic is not useful for people trying to browse for answers to similar problems. I'm accepting your answer here and feedback to this community is maybe ask people before you move their comments around and create topics on their behalf?
My comments were related to these topics (among others):
Re: Is anyone else having serious reliability problems since this update?
Specifc problems should be generated per each user an not hijack posts on others. Not eveyone has the same configuration, environment nor problems. Mixing posts, information, and such makes it confusing sometimes and harder to troubleshoot and find a resolution. So NG asks that users generate new posts so us users can begin to help target and troubleshoot the problem for each user. Why mods move posts into users own thread and we can being to help users out with targetted questions and and troubleshooting help.
So please continue to use this thread and please give feedback to the questions presented so we can help you figure out the problem. Were here to help out, however we need the info and details. If not then you'll need to continue with NG support and hope they can help you out.
Re: Is anyone else having serious reliability problems since this update?
Hello Netgear Community,
My issue is with reliable client connectivity on this system. My home has a mix of devices, but we are primarily in the Samsung, Android, and Sonos ecosystems. The highest priorities are two home offices, entertainment centers with streaming services, and then smart home devices. We see both roaming and fixed devices lose wifi and/or fail to connect entirely. It's common for our phones to not only lose wifi, but also require network resets to get it back. None of these issues existed on previous systems. I have some older devices that don't support the new security standards, but I've already isolated those and they are wired.
Here is additional detail to get started:
What Firmware version is currently loaded?
V6.3.7.10 on router and 2 satellites - I allowed this to happen through the auto update feature. I'm going to reapply it manually following the recommended sequence of events and already disabled auto updates going forward.
What is the Mfr and model# of the Internet Service Providers modem/ONT the NG router is connected too? Be sure your using a good quality LAN cable between the modem and router. CAT6A STP is recommended.
Potentially notable features are MoCA adapter built in and IGMP for IPTV. We use coax on our set top boxes. I have the Zyxel in bridge mode and the RBR in Router mode (haven't taken the troubleshooting step to try AP mode yet). The Zyxel still feeds the Coax lines. 750Mbps service currently, confirmed via Ethernet speed tests and Orbi when it's working. I have no complaints about the speed and potential of this system. I just haven't been able to find a reliable configuration.
Internet -> Zyxel WAN (bridge mode) -> Zyxel LAN -> Orbi RBR WAN (router mode)
My house is wired with CAT6. My patch cables are all CAT6. I have a 10G unmanaged switches throughout the floors of my house. Star topology with a mix of 2.5G and 1G unmanaged switches in rooms with a lot of devices. I have reliable connectivity throughout my LAN and swapped known working cables as a sanity check. I also had reliable, albeit slower, home wifi before introducing this system.
What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
5000sq ft and want coverage across a .25 acre lot. 3 floors. RBR is in the basement where the ISP feed comes in. I have a small telecom rack there where the CAT6 and Coax terminates. RBS1 on first floor and RBS 2 on second floor.
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet or more is recommended in between RBR and RBS️ to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected.
>30 feet for all. Basement RBR is somewhat central to the house. RBS1 on first floor is close to the back windows to cover the deck, yard and patio. RBS2 on the second floor is close to the front windows to cover the porch. I put them closer to higher density locations for our 2 home offices and entertainment centers. We have 6e devices and the range isn't far (just how 6GHz works so no fault of Orbi). I want to be within 1-2 rooms that matter to get the 6e connectivity.
What channels are you using? Auto? Try Auto and 48 on 5Ghz. Or try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and 40 to 48 channel on 5Ghz.
I started with default settings to get the system going. I've moved away from Auto on 2.4GHz to channel 11. My sonos system wasn't reliable on Orbi either, but I switched that to SonosNet channel 6 to avoid overlapping channels within my environment.
5GHz was on 36 to start. I've moved it to 44 as part of my netgear support ticket and reduced the power to 50% on 5GHz. I still observe frequent connectivity issues. I see clients connect to odd locations as well based on what the signal strengths are showing. I've experimented with taking away RBS1 and moving them further apart, but no tenable solution yet.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?
Yes. I use Ubiquiti Wifiman (https://blog.ui.com/2018/12/11/introducing-wifiman/) to gain more visibility. My signal strength is significantly better and I skew my channels to avoid as many overlaps as possible. I can share more on this as required.
Is Armor, SPC, IoT and Separate 6Ghz SSID networks enabled?
I have the 1 year Armor subscription for the new purchase. I don't want anything on networking equipment that requires ongoing subscription fees, so I have no issue turning this off. I started with the default Orbi network only and default settings. netgear support had me introduce the Guest and IoT networks and ensure IoT is 2.4GHz only. I don't use Guest for anything currently and IoT is only for isolated testing thus far. It seems to only be a separate SSID with some config options vs a truly isolated network. The Separate 6GHz SSID is disabled.
The 5 GHz power remains at 50% from troubleshooting as well.
How are the RBS connected to the RBR, directly behind the RBR or is there a LAN switch in between? Brand and model of this switch please. Using the 2.5Gb LAN Ports or 1Gb LAN ports for wired backhaul?
I let the system initialize with it's default daisy chain wireless backhaul configuration. I introduced wired backhaul after repositioning the devices a few times. Wired backhaul required power cycling the system. After the 6.3.7.10 firmware update my wired backhaul broke and I had to go through this exercise again. My unmanaged switches auto negotiate the correct speed between 10G, 2.5G, 1G, 10/100M. I use the 2.5G ports on the Orbis and want graceful degradation to wireless backhaul if needed . Everything on my home network is on UPS battery backups and expected to support 2 full time home offices. Initially I was confused about auto-negotiation not working, so tried 2.5G only switches before I realized this thing just needs a lot of power cycling.
I confirmed wired backhaul working with a few switches after learning the quirks, and IMO poor behaviors of a system that should be plug and play: Zyxel MG-105, Trendnet TEG-S762, Trendnet TEG-S750. I have 1G Cisco unmanaged switches in the house as well, but those aren't used for the Orbi so think we can omit those.
Has a power off for 1 minute then back ON with the ISP modem and router been performed since last update? Be sure to restart your network in this sequence: Turn off and unplug modem. Turn off router and computers. Plug in and turn on modem. Wait 2 minutes for it to connect. Turn on the router and wait 2 minutes for it to connect. Turn on computers and rest of network.
I did all of the above several times. I don't like taking down my home network. I found this is required for Orbi operation on a lot more cases than I've experienced with alternative equipment.
My case# with netgear is 46896707 if that becomes relevant.
Re: Is anyone else having serious reliability problems since this update?
Respectfully, I disagree that I hijacked anything. I was sharing similar experiences with the other commenters within their context. The comments above are confusing without this context and I'd prefer to not operate with vague titles and missing information.
Re: Is anyone else having serious reliability problems since this update?
Update - I manually reapplied the 6.3.7.10 firmware update to my 2 satellites and router over the weekend to rule out an issue with the auto update. I also followed the highly disruptive power down and up sequence again across my entire house. The same connectivity issues are still observed.
My issue is with reliable client connectivity on this system. My home has a mix of devices, but we are primarily in the Samsung, Android, and Sonos ecosystems. The highest priorities are two home offices, entertainment centers with streaming services, and then smart home devices. We see both roaming and fixed devices lose wifi and/or fail to connect entirely. It's common for our phones to not only lose wifi, but also require network resets to get it back. None of these issues existed on previous systems. I have some older devices that don't support the new security standards, but I've already isolated those and they are wired.
Be sure you disable any WiFI Private IP address or Random MAC Address features on mobile devices:
V6.3.7.10 on router and 2 satellites - I allowed this to happen through the auto update feature. I'm going to reapply it manually following the recommended sequence of events and already disabled auto updates going forward.
What is the Mfr and model# of the Internet Service Providers modem/ONT the NG router is connected too? Be sure your using a good quality LAN cable between the modem and router. CAT6A STP is recommended.
Potentially notable features are MoCA adapter built in and IGMP for IPTV. We use coax on our set top boxes. I have the Zyxel in bridge mode and the RBR in Router mode (haven't taken the troubleshooting step to try AP mode yet). The Zyxel still feeds the Coax lines. 750Mbps service currently, confirmed via Ethernet speed tests and Orbi when it's working. I have no complaints about the speed and potential of this system. I just haven't been able to find a reliable configuration.
Internet -> Zyxel WAN (bridge mode) -> Zyxel LAN -> Orbi RBR WAN (router mode)
My house is wired with CAT6. My patch cables are all CAT6. I have a 10G unmanaged switches throughout the floors of my house. Star topology with a mix of 2.5G and 1G unmanaged switches in rooms with a lot of devices. I have reliable connectivity throughout my LAN and swapped known working cables as a sanity check. I also had reliable, albeit slower, home wifi before introducing this system.
Be sure your using a good quality LAN cable between the modem and router. CAT6A STP is recommended between the modem and RBR. You might try using the modem in modem mode with it's wireless radios disabled and the RBR in router mode.
What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
5000sq ft and want coverage across a .25 acre lot. 3 floors. RBR is in the basement where the ISP feed comes in. I have a small telecom rack there where the CAT6 and Coax terminates. RBS1 on first floor and RBS 2 on second floor.
One big problem here is the basement, not recommended for the RBR to be placed here. Should be on the 1st or 2nd floor. All that concrete and steel can cause problems. Regardless of wireless or wired backhaul. I have my RBR on 2nd floor, 1 RBS in 1st floor and one in the basement. Any chance you can move the RBR out of the basement?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet or more is recommended in between RBR and RBS️ to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected.
>30 feet for all. Basement RBR is somewhat central to the house. RBS1 on first floor is close to the back windows to cover the deck, yard and patio. RBS2 on the second floor is close to the front windows to cover the porch. I put them closer to higher density locations for our 2 home offices and entertainment centers. We have 6e devices and the range isn't far (just how 6GHz works so no fault of Orbi). I want to be within 1-2 rooms that matter to get the 6e connectivity.
I recommend turning down the power on the RBR from 100% to 50%. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings
What channels are you using? Auto? Try Auto and 48 on 5Ghz. Or try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and 40 to 48 channel on 5Ghz.
I started with default settings to get the system going. I've moved away from Auto on 2.4GHz to channel 11. My sonos system wasn't reliable on Orbi either, but I switched that to SonosNet channel 6 to avoid overlapping channels within my environment.
Best to use far appart channels if possible, channel 1 and 11 on 2.4Ghz.
5GHz was on 36 to start. I've moved it to 44 as part of my netgear support ticket and reduced the power to 50% on 5GHz. I still observe frequent connectivity issues. I see clients connect to odd locations as well based on what the signal strengths are showing. I've experimented with taking away RBS1 and moving them further apart, but no tenable solution yet.
I have same size home and 3 levels including basement. I run mine at 25% and my RBS are ethernet connected.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?
Yes. I use Ubiquiti Wifiman (https://blog.ui.com/2018/12/11/introducing-wifiman/) to gain more visibility. My signal strength is significantly better and I skew my channels to avoid as many overlaps as possible. I can share more on this as required.
Is Armor, SPC, IoT and Separate 6Ghz SSID networks enabled?
I have the 1 year Armor subscription for the new purchase. I don't want anything on networking equipment that requires ongoing subscription fees, so I have no issue turning this off. I started with the default Orbi network only and default settings. netgear support had me introduce the Guest and IoT networks and ensure IoT is 2.4GHz only. I don't use Guest for anything currently and IoT is only for isolated testing thus far. It seems to only be a separate SSID with some config options vs a truly isolated network. The Separate 6GHz SSID is disabled.
Be sure when you disable Armor that after you apply the change, power OFF The RBR for 1 minute then back ON.
The 5 GHz power remains at 50% from troubleshooting as well.
How are the RBS connected to the RBR, directly behind the RBR or is there a LAN switch in between? Brand and model of this switch please. Using the 2.5Gb LAN Ports or 1Gb LAN ports for wired backhaul?
I let the system initialize with it's default daisy chain wireless backhaul configuration. I introduced wired backhaul after repositioning the devices a few times. Wired backhaul required power cycling the system. After the 6.3.7.10 firmware update my wired backhaul broke and I had to go through this exercise again. My unmanaged switches auto negotiate the correct speed between 10G, 2.5G, 1G, 10/100M. I use the 2.5G ports on the Orbis and want graceful degradation to wireless backhaul if needed . Everything on my home network is on UPS battery backups and expected to support 2 full time home offices. Initially I was confused about auto-negotiation not working, so tried 2.5G only switches before I realized this thing just needs a lot of power cycling.
If the RBS are wireless connected first fully then while ON and in this state, just connecting the RBS to the ethernet back haul should be all thats needed with out power cycling anything. The RBS will sync via ethernet backhaul with out needing any power cycling or reboots. Mine don't.
I confirmed wired backhaul working with a few switches after learning the quirks, and IMO poor behaviors of a system that should be plug and play: Zyxel MG-105, Trendnet TEG-S762, Trendnet TEG-S750. I have 1G Cisco unmanaged switches in the house as well, but those aren't used for the Orbi so think we can omit those.
If your using the 2.5Gb ports on the RBR and RBS, besure the LAN cable is CAT6A STP cabling throughout if RBS are going to be ethernet connected using the 2.5Gb ports.
I've seen posters with odd issues using various branded switches.
Especially ones with IEEE 802.3az (Green Ethernet) features or managed switches.
Best way to troublehoot these is to directly connect RBS to the back of the RBR with out any switches. Use the 1Gb ports between the RBR and RBS for this for the extra RBS.
Then using one switch, Say the Zyxel one, install it and connect one RBS to the switch, leaving the other RBS turn OFF. Observe behavior. If nothing or no problems, add the other RBS. Observe.
Change out the Zyxel switch for the Trendnet and so same test and observations. You could even try the RBS using your 1Gb switches and the 1Gb ports between the RBR and RBS and see if the problem happens.
I don't recommend mixed brand switched. Keep with one brand.
NGs XS505M and GS110MX work great with my 9 series.
Has a power off for 1 minute then back ON with the ISP modem and router been performed since last update? Be sure to restart your network in this sequence: Turn off and unplug modem. Turn off router and computers. Plug in and turn on modem. Wait 2 minutes for it to connect. Turn on the router and wait 2 minutes for it to connect. Turn on computers and rest of network.
I did all of the above several times. I don't like taking down my home network. I found this is required for Orbi operation on a lot more cases than I've experienced with alternative equipment.
My case# with netgear is 46896707 if that becomes relevant.
Re: Is anyone else having serious reliability problems since this update?
Thanks for taking the time to read all of this and respond @FURRYe38
To level set, this system has been demoted to a backup/lab experiment since I can't currently trust them. I can fall back to my old solution and it's fine. I can fall forward to my new solution and it's fine. I'm willing to keep testing and giving community feedback, but the response time may not be quick.
I tried to reply inline, but the post seemed to fail. Shortening the text and trying again...
Be sure you disable any WiFI Private IP address or Random MAC Address features on mobile devices:
I specifically asked netgear support if that mattered and they said no after consulting with their elevated tier/engineering (it's fuzzy what elevated means)? To me, it indicates an underlying issue with the router functionality though. I don't observe this on alternative products. I see a few people on here going the Raspberry Pi DHCP route. I've got a hobby box of those in my basement, alternative routers, and Synology NAS that can do it, but not interested at this price point to have to do that.
Be sure your using a good quality LAN cable between the modem and router. CAT6A STP is recommended between the modem and RBR. You might try using the modem in modem mode with it's wireless radios disabled and the RBR in router mode.
I understand why you provide CAT6A STP as default advice. It makes sense for all new installations and I would recommend that as well. However, it is not technically correct.
CAT5e can support 1-2.5G (and that is likely why there is a weird hop there in residential/consumer grade vs just going to 10G given existing installation base). CAT6 is fine for 10G up to 55m, CAT6A up to 100m under ideal conditions. None of my CAT6 runs are over 55m and I do get 10G-ish performance between my workstations and NAS (minus what's lost for overhead). I helped put myself through college working as a network technician, so have done a lot of installations in diverse environments and still have my test equipment to sanity check my cabling beyond just using the blinky light test on switches/gear (although that is admittedly my first step). My cable runs are all sufficiently separated from high voltage, any places where overlap is required are perpendicular vs parallel, and modern network equipment typically does a commendable job on recovering from any interference in a residential setting when using physical cabling anyways. At the time my home was built, CAT6 was future proofing, but we all know how that goes 🙂
I'm to the point I'm willing to run this in AP only mode, but it's hard to trust RBR as my primary router. I'll experiment more to see if something works based on your feedback.
One big problem here is the basement, not recommended for the RBR to be placed here. Should be on the 1st or 2nd floor. All that concrete and steel can cause problems. Regardless of wireless or wired backhaul. I have my RBR on 2nd floor, 1 RBS in 1st floor and one in the basement. Any chance you can move the RBR out of the basement?
I can try this. It's not ideal given other troubleshooting steps say to plug everything directly into the router and my cable is central in the basement. Wired backhaul is also weakened on Orbi with more than 1 satellite since we have to use 1G vs 2.5G ports. That's why I introduced the switch(es) in the first place per the netgear documentation: https://kb.netgear.com/000051205/What-is-Ethernet-backhaul-and-how-do-I-set-it-up-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-Sy...
Also, my house is a walkout and the router is placed in a finished area that is mostly wood studs, insulation, drywall, and exterior brick. I keep things like this away from the mechanical systems and the unfinished section as best I can. Orbi reports Good wireless backhaul connection with my current setup.
I recommend turning down the power on the RBR from 100% to 50%. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings
Already tried this, commentary below to keep it in one spot.
Best to use far appart channels if possible, channel 1 and 11 on 2.4Ghz.
My neighbors on both sides use channel 1 and my Philips Hue devices are set for zigbee channel 11 (not wifi channel, but still interference potential: https://www.metageek.com/training/resources/zigbee-wifi-coexistence/). I don't see problems out of hue regardless of zigbee channel 11, 15, 20, or 25 but I skewed them nonetheless. Channels 1, 6, and 11 are well known non overlapping, non DFS channels for 2.4GHz. I typically avoid the others where I can and haven't been seeing as many issues on 2.4GHz only.
5GHz has proven more problematic and continues to be. We don't have a lot of configuration options for 5GHz channels on Orbi due to the dedicated backhaul. Sometimes I wish I could repurpose those when on wired backhaul, but I also like the graceful degradation from wired to wireless and knew this was a limitation before purchasing the system. Supporting references:
I'm open to trying more settings here. I haven't been changing the 20/40 coexistence yet as an example.
I have same size home and 3 levels including basement. I run mine at 25% and my RBS are ethernet connected.
Thanks for this feedback. 25% doesn't give me the reach I'd hoped for throughout the yard, but reliability > performance for me on this.
Be sure when you disable Armor that after you apply the change, power OFF The RBR for 1 minute then back ON.
Will do. Netgear should consider steps to make changes less disruptive going forward.
If the RBS are wireless connected first fully then while ON and in this state, just connecting the RBS to the ethernet back haul should be all thats needed with out power cycling anything. The RBS will sync via ethernet backhaul with out needing any power cycling or reboots. Mine don't.
That was not my observation on initial setup. It also stopped working after the first auto firmware update. Once I power cycled them again they started behaving better. Netgear support also indicated a reboot was required and that is why it happened. I would hope it works the way you stated, I just saw something different despite trying the happy path setup routine.
If your using the 2.5Gb ports on the RBR and RBS, besure the LAN cable is CAT6A STP cabling throughout if RBS are going to be ethernet connected using the 2.5Gb ports.
Comment above on CAT5e, CAT6, CAT6a.
I've seen posters with odd issues using various branded switches.
Especially ones with IEEE 802.3az (Green Ethernet) features or managed switches.
It's a big permutation problem, but Netgear should maintain a compatibility list for their products if this is that big of a problem. Maybe there is already something available I haven't seen, but it's not in the Orbi docs. Standards are standards for reason and everything else on my network, minus the Orbis, just worked regardless of age of equipment. My switches for this are all unmanaged. I totally get not wanting to support smart switches since there are additional configuration options.
Best way to troublehoot these is to directly connect RBS to the back of the RBR with out any switches. Use the 1Gb ports between the RBR and RBS for this for the extra RBS.
Then using one switch, Say the Zyxel one, install it and connect one RBS to the switch, leaving the other RBS turn OFF. Observe behavior. If nothing or no problems, add the other RBS. Observe.
Change out the Zyxel switch for the Trendnet and so same test and observations. You could even try the RBS using your 1Gb switches and the 1Gb ports between the RBR and RBS and see if the problem happens.
I don't recommend mixed brand switched. Keep with one brand.
NGs XS505M and GS110MX work great with my 9 series.
This is what I've done. My progression at the house has been from 1G to 2.5G to 10G switches mostly due to NAS and workstation upgrades. I had those prior to the Orbis. Support indicated that all of my switches should be supported. It did require power cycling for my case though, which I'm still struggling to get my head around. As far as single brand, I agree on mesh systems to help with more seamless handoff. However, It's not uncommon to have mixed gear in environments as long as they support the required standard. It seems Orbi is sensitive to this for undocumented reasons.
My case# with netgear is 46896707 if that becomes relevant.
Thanks for taking the time to read all of this and respond @FURRYe38
To level set, this system has been demoted to a backup/lab experiment since I can't currently trust them. I can fall back to my old solution and it's fine. I can fall forward to my new solution and it's fine. I'm willing to keep testing and giving community feedback, but the response time may not be quick.
I tried to reply inline, but the post seemed to fail. Shortening the text and trying again...
Be sure you disable any WiFI Private IP address or Random MAC Address features on mobile devices:
I specifically asked netgear support if that mattered and they said no after consulting with their elevated tier/engineering (it's fuzzy what elevated means)? To me, it indicates an underlying issue with the router functionality though. I don't observe this on alternative products. I see a few people on here going the Raspberry Pi DHCP route. I've got a hobby box of those in my basement, alternative routers, and Synology NAS that can do it, but not interested at this price point to have to do that.
Be sure your using a good quality LAN cable between the modem and router. CAT6A STP is recommended between the modem and RBR. You might try using the modem in modem mode with it's wireless radios disabled and the RBR in router mode.
I understand why you provide CAT6A STP as default advice. It makes sense for all new installations and I would recommend that as well. However, it is not technically correct.
CAT5e can support 1-2.5G (and that is likely why there is a weird hop there in residential/consumer grade vs just going to 10G given existing installation base). CAT6 is fine for 10G up to 55m, CAT6A up to 100m under ideal conditions. None of my CAT6 runs are over 55m and I do get 10G-ish performance between my workstations and NAS (minus what's lost for overhead). I helped put myself through college working as a network technician, so have done a lot of installations in diverse environments and still have my test equipment to sanity check my cabling beyond just using the blinky light test on switches/gear (although that is admittedly my first step). My cable runs are all sufficiently separated from high voltage, any places where overlap is required are perpendicular vs parallel, and modern network equipment typically does a commendable job on recovering from any interference in a residential setting when using physical cabling anyways. At the time my home was built, CAT6 was future proofing, but we all know how that goes 🙂
There is a difference between STP and UTP. Also speaking from experience, CAT6A STP handles higher connection rates better than UTP. Take it or leave it. I've been using CAT6 UTP for years. Once we did a new home improvement and addition, we put in CAT6A STP for future proofing and best operation. I knew one day higher speeds beyond 1gb would be seen and here we are. Maybe on paper 5e is ok but actual testing shows other wise that STP handles better than UTP. CAT6 handles 1Gb and beyond. 5e was only officially supported on 1Gb. CAT5 up to 100Mb. So technically correct.
I'm to the point I'm willing to run this in AP only mode, but it's hard to trust RBR as my primary router. I'll experiment more to see if something works based on your feedback.
One big problem here is the basement, not recommended for the RBR to be placed here. Should be on the 1st or 2nd floor. All that concrete and steel can cause problems. Regardless of wireless or wired backhaul. I have my RBR on 2nd floor, 1 RBS in 1st floor and one in the basement. Any chance you can move the RBR out of the basement?
I can try this. It's not ideal given other troubleshooting steps say to plug everything directly into the router and my cable is central in the basement. Wired backhaul is also weakened on Orbi with more than 1 satellite since we have to use 1G vs 2.5G ports. That's why I introduced the switch(es) in the first place per the netgear documentation: https://kb.netgear.com/000051205/What-is-Ethernet-backhaul-and-how-do-I-set-it-up-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-Sy...
Also, my house is a walkout and the router is placed in a finished area that is mostly wood studs, insulation, drywall, and exterior brick. I keep things like this away from the mechanical systems and the unfinished section as best I can. Orbi reports Good wireless backhaul connection with my current setup.
I recommend turning down the power on the RBR from 100% to 50%. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings
Already tried this, commentary below to keep it in one spot.
Best to use far appart channels if possible, channel 1 and 11 on 2.4Ghz.
My neighbors on both sides use channel 1 and my Philips Hue devices are set for zigbee channel 11 (not wifi channel, but still interference potential: https://www.metageek.com/training/resources/zigbee-wifi-coexistence/). I don't see problems out of hue regardless of zigbee channel 11, 15, 20, or 25 but I skewed them nonetheless. Channels 1, 6, and 11 are well known non overlapping, non DFS channels for 2.4GHz. I typically avoid the others where I can and haven't been seeing as many issues on 2.4GHz only.
5GHz has proven more problematic and continues to be. We don't have a lot of configuration options for 5GHz channels on Orbi due to the dedicated backhaul. Sometimes I wish I could repurpose those when on wired backhaul, but I also like the graceful degradation from wired to wireless and knew this was a limitation before purchasing the system. Supporting references:
I'm open to trying more settings here. I haven't been changing the 20/40 coexistence yet as an example.
I have same size home and 3 levels including basement. I run mine at 25% and my RBS are ethernet connected.
Thanks for this feedback. 25% doesn't give me the reach I'd hoped for throughout the yard, but reliability > performance for me on this.
Be sure when you disable Armor that after you apply the change, power OFF The RBR for 1 minute then back ON.
Will do. Netgear should consider steps to make changes less disruptive going forward.
If the RBS are wireless connected first fully then while ON and in this state, just connecting the RBS to the ethernet back haul should be all thats needed with out power cycling anything. The RBS will sync via ethernet backhaul with out needing any power cycling or reboots. Mine don't.
That was not my observation on initial setup. It also stopped working after the first auto firmware update. Once I power cycled them again they started behaving better. Netgear support also indicated a reboot was required and that is why it happened. I would hope it works the way you stated, I just saw something different despite trying the happy path setup routine.
If your using the 2.5Gb ports on the RBR and RBS, besure the LAN cable is CAT6A STP cabling throughout if RBS are going to be ethernet connected using the 2.5Gb ports.
Comment above on CAT5e, CAT6, CAT6a.
I've seen posters with odd issues using various branded switches.
Especially ones with IEEE 802.3az (Green Ethernet) features or managed switches.
It's a big permutation problem, but Netgear should maintain a compatibility list for their products if this is that big of a problem. Maybe there is already something available I haven't seen, but it's not in the Orbi docs. Standards are standards for reason and everything else on my network, minus the Orbis, just worked regardless of age of equipment. My switches for this are all unmanaged. I totally get not wanting to support smart switches since there are additional configuration options.
Best way to troublehoot these is to directly connect RBS to the back of the RBR with out any switches. Use the 1Gb ports between the RBR and RBS for this for the extra RBS.
Then using one switch, Say the Zyxel one, install it and connect one RBS to the switch, leaving the other RBS turn OFF. Observe behavior. If nothing or no problems, add the other RBS. Observe.
Change out the Zyxel switch for the Trendnet and so same test and observations. You could even try the RBS using your 1Gb switches and the 1Gb ports between the RBR and RBS and see if the problem happens.
I don't recommend mixed brand switched. Keep with one brand.
NGs XS505M and GS110MX work great with my 9 series.
This is what I've done. My progression at the house has been from 1G to 2.5G to 10G switches mostly due to NAS and workstation upgrades. I had those prior to the Orbis. Support indicated that all of my switches should be supported. It did require power cycling for my case though, which I'm still struggling to get my head around. As far as single brand, I agree on mesh systems to help with more seamless handoff. However, It's not uncommon to have mixed gear in environments as long as they support the required standard. It seems Orbi is sensitive to this for undocumented reasons.
My case# with netgear is 46896707 if that becomes relevant.
Re: Is anyone else having serious reliability problems since this update?
I disabled netgear armor and moved to AP mode with the Orbi system. Another router is handling the rest of the responsibilities. I'm seeing much better behavior overall. I didn't change any other settings around power, channels, cables, location, etc. I haven't narrowed down the exact issue with the RBR in my environment. There aren't enough logs or settings exposed on RBR to do much more. I suppose I could see if wireshark shows me anything interesting, but RBR hasn't proven to be up to the task.
This is a workable solution for me. Overall pretty disappointed with the set and supporting applications, but it's a step up in performance from my old wifi solution and AP mode has been reliable for at least a few days (big improvement over daily issues).
I did observe wired backhaul was lost again when going to AP mode despite the reboot cycle that worked in the past. The app and orbilogin were also confused (missing satellite, wrong device information) despite things working. I'm to the point I'm not going to worry about that and just let it be wireless.
I'm curious if future firmware updates change the behavior, but accepting these are what they are and avoiding future Orbis. I haven't had issues with other netgear devices and I found support to be responsive despite not arriving at the exact resolution I hoped for.
Thanks again for the effort from the community! If the case moves forward in a meaningful way I'll report back. I don't intend to go back to using Orbi as my primary router at this point, so my feedback may be limited to AP mode.
