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Orbi Router Model #RBR850 WiFi 6 WPA3 Ring cameras, Security System, other Devices can’t connect

Rottikid
Guide

Orbi Router Model #RBR850 WiFi 6 WPA3 Ring cameras, Security System, other Devices can’t connect

When I turn on WPA3 Security and IPV6 my Cameras, Doorbell, FireStick and other devices can't connect to 2.4GHz or 5GHz WiFi. Is there anyway to connect these devices manually to 2.4 and 5G and my devices that are 6g capable be able to take advantage of WiFi 6.  Thank you so much for all your help.  Look forward to hearing from you.  If it matters I'm using Verizon FIOS that is connected directly to the Orbi Router.  I have a Verizon FIOS router but I'm not using it.  I was told it's   Better to go directly into the Orbi. Makes no sense that you can't connect all devices and take advantage of WiFi 6

 

Message 1 of 16

Accepted Solutions
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi Router Model #RBR850 WiFi 6 WPA3 Ring cameras, Security System, other Devices can’t connect


@CrimpOn wrote:

@Rottikid wrote:

Is there anyway to tell which devices are connected to 5G and which devices are connected to WiFi 6 AX mode on 5G? Is there a breakout like there is for 2.4G and 5G which tells you which is connected to,what.


An interesting puzzle.  2.4G 802.11b/g/n has maximum data rates:

802.11b - 11mb

802.11g - 54mb

802.11n - 600 (theoretical)

If a 2.4G device is connected at a link rate higher than 54mb, is must be 802.11n (or ax?)

Yes, depends on what the device supports.

Don't forget AC. 80Mhz is 1300Mbps, 160 supports 1733Mpbs

 

5G 802..11 has similar limits.  If the link rate is higher than 866, it must be ax. Actually don't forget AC. 5Ghz AC supports up to 1733Mpbs if 160Mhz is suported on both devices. 

 

The only devices that can be connected with ax must have the capability of ax.  That rules out a huge fraction of the devices in most homes.

 

Not having any myself, I wonder if any devices are capable of displaying ax connection? Depends on there support. Why have some load up WifiSweetSpots app on some mobile devices, can get a ball part speed rate with this app.


 

View solution in original post

Message 15 of 16

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FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi Router Model #RBR850 WiFi 6 WPA3 Ring cameras, Security System, other Devices can’t connect

You'll need to set WPA2/AES only on the RBR to allow for device security compatibility as not all devices support WPA3. NG hasn't implemented mixed WPA2 and 3 modes on the Orbi AX system yet. Hoping they will in some future FW update. 

 

Netgear has set up a community forum specifically for the Orbi AX (WiFi 6) products. Most of the people who watch that forum are more likely to have experience with Orbi AX. Might be more likely to find someone who has a solution if the question is posted there:
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-AX/bd-p/en-home-orbi-ax


Please use this link to the main forum product list to review and choose where to make your posts. 
https://community.netgear.com/t5/NETGEAR-Forum/ct-p/en-netgear


Thank you

 

Message 2 of 16
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi Router Model #RBR850 WiFi 6 WPA3 Ring cameras, Security System, other Devices can’t connect

Your ISP Modem already has a built in router and wifi. This would be a double NAT (two router) condition which isn't recommended. https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT
https://kb.netgear.com/30187/How-to-fix-issues-with-Double-NAT
Couple of options,
1. Configure the modem for transparent bridge or modem only mode. Then use the Orbi router in router mode. You'll need to contact the ISP for help and information in regards to the modem being bridged correctly.
2. If you can't bridge the modem, disable ALL wifi radios on the modem, configure the modems DMZ/ExposedHost or IP Pass-Through for the IP address the Orbi router gets from the modem. Then you can use the Orbi router in Router mode.
3. Or disable all wifi radios on the modem and connect the Orbi router to the modem, configure AP mode on the Orbi router. https://kb.netgear.com/31218/How-do-I-configure-my-Orbi-router-to-act-as-an-access-point and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7LOcJ8GdDo&app=desktop

 

Try option #2 first. 

Ask the ISP if you can remove there router from the system and use Orbi router instead. 

Message 3 of 16
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Orbi Router Model #RBR850 WiFi 6 WPA3 Ring cameras, Security System, other Devices can’t connect

@FURRYe38 is totally correct.  There is no relationship between IPv6, WiFi6, and WPA3.  Completely different things.

  • IPv6 is the update from IPv4 that has been "coming" for nearly 20 years.  None of the inexpensive Internet of Things (IoT) devices are capable of IPv6.  They are perfectly happy using the router's IPv4 capability.  Every Orbi since 2016 has supported IPv6.
  • WiFi6 refers to 802.11ax.  This is an improvement over 802.11b/g/n and 802.11ac that promises greater capacity for devices that are 802.11ax capable. (and there are not all that many of them).  Once again, all of those existing devices, including televisions, security cameras, etc. etc. have radio chips in them that are not capable of 802.11ax.  Even worse, there are some devices which will not connect if the "ax" feature is enabled.  The choice then is (a) replace that device, or (b) disable ax for everything.
  • WPA3 security is an "improvement" over WPA2. Once again, the number of devices which are capable of WPA3 is very few.  (Microsoft just recently announced an update to Windows 10 to support WPA3.)
    as @FURRYe38 mentioned, some WiFi systems support both WPA2 and WPA3, which results in a system that is no more secure than WPA has been for years.  I compare this to a homeowner who tells the locksmith "put in the most secure Medico lock there is" (special keys that can only be purchased by registered locksmiths.  Special key cutting machine.  Almost impossible to 'pick'.  And then says, "oh, and also make it so my existing KwikSet keys will open the door."
    WPA3 is great in a controlled environment where every computer is capable of WPA3.

Go back to WPA2 and things will connect.

Message 4 of 16
Rottikid
Guide

Re: Orbi Router Model #RBR850 WiFi 6 WPA3 Ring cameras, Security System, other Devices can’t connect

CrimpOn,
The only reason I want to use WPA3 is because it is necessary if I'm going to use WiFi 6.  I have  quite a few devices that use WiFi 6.  My iPhone, iPad, new Ring Pro Doorbell 2, and FireStick.   
I figured my WiFi would be faster.  I know the new Orbi 9 has WPA2/WPA3.  Yes I know it also has WiFi 6E whIch is different than WiFi 6.  Just wondering when they will fix the WPA2/WPA3 for the Orbi RBR850.  I know it was released but had problems so it was taken down.  It's pretty annoying that you can't use WiFi 6 with other devices.  It is one of the reasons I bought this router. Hopefully Netgear is working on it. Thanks again for all your help. I'll forward to hearing from you. Have a good night. 

Rottikid



 

Message 5 of 16
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Orbi Router Model #RBR850 WiFi 6 WPA3 Ring cameras, Security System, other Devices can’t connect


@Rottikid wrote:


The only reason I want to use WPA3 is because it is necessary if I'm going to use WiFi 6.


This is not my understanding.  If WPA3 were required any time 802.11ax is enabled, then Netgear would not allow any other choice of security. All of the posts I have seen about the Orbi AX remark that users wish Netgear had provided WPA2/WPA3 mixed security, because the way it is they have to use WPA2 for all their devices that cannot use WPA3.  That is, they use (802.11ax) and WPA2.

 

Message 6 of 16
Rottikid
Guide

Re: Orbi Router Model #RBR850 WiFi 6 WPA3 Ring cameras, Security System, other Devices can’t connect

CrimpOn,

the only way to use WiFi 6 is to use WPA3.
6GHzIf you open the Orbi app and go to WiFi settings then go to Security method they offer:

     None

     WPA2-Personal

     WPA3-Personal    
     WPA/WPA2-Personal

At the very bottom it says:  

Note:  6GHz WiFi supports only WPA3

NETGEAR hopefully will have a fix shortly.  Thanks again for all your help.  Does anyone have Netgear's Corporate phone number or a Number for their Tech dept.   The one listed no one answers.   Because this is a big deal and as I said it was the reason I purchased their WiFi 6 router.  The router is quite expensive and it has been well over 7 months with this problem not being able to use WiFi 6. They said that the Orbi RBR850 was backward compatible and it certainly is not.  Thanks again.  Hopefully someone will be able to provide me with a working number for their Corporate Offices. 
Rottikid

Message 7 of 16
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Orbi Router Model #RBR850 WiFi 6 WPA3 Ring cameras, Security System, other Devices can’t connect

WiFi5 uses the 5Ghz frequency. 6G is WiFi6E
The 850 does not support 6G frequencies (WiFi6E) only the newest product supports 6G frequencies
Message 8 of 16
Rottikid
Guide

Re: Orbi Router Model #RBR850 WiFi 6 WPA3 Ring cameras, Security System, other Devices can’t connect

I am not talking about WiFi6E. I am talking about WiFi 6. Tri-band Mesh WiFi 6 system that requires WPA3 Security Protocol. The RBR850 does support WPA2 /WPA3 which is necessary for WiFi 6 to work with older 2.4 & 5 g You are mistaken. Your talking about Orbi’s 960 series which is Quad Band and WiFi 6E.
Message 9 of 16
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi Router Model #RBR850 WiFi 6 WPA3 Ring cameras, Security System, other Devices can’t connect

Ok, Lets get something right here, WiFI6 = AX mode on 5Ghz. Its does NOT require WPA3 whatsoever. AX mode works with WPA2 and AES only. 5Ghz and AX mode as been working with WPA2 and AES for past 3 years. I've been using 5Ghz AX and WPA2 and AES on Orbi 8 series since 2019.

 

WiFI6E is 6Ghz freqency which also uses AX mode on 6Ghz. This does require WPA3 I believe. 

 

Early ON, Orbi AX system supported mixed mode WPA2 and WPA3. However it was found that there were core problems with the WPA3 handling with devices. So NG removed the MIXED MODE from the Orbi UI. NG left the WPA2 only or WPA3 only settings in the UI. WPA3 still has limited support and use on mostly seen on newer generation supporting devices. NG will need to re-implement Mixed Mode WPA in the UI once the WPA community has fixed the core code and is stable to use in Mixed Mode. 

Hopefully NG will at some point as I can attest that with my 9 series Orbi, Mixed Mode is working. 

 

 

 

Message 10 of 16
Rottikid
Guide

Re: Orbi Router Model #RBR850 WiFi 6 WPA3 Ring cameras, Security System, other Devices can’t connect

Furrye38,

Thank you so much for all your help.  I believe I understand how the Orbi RBR850 Tri-Band works.  I guess I'll just wait until Netgear gets it's mixed mode fixed. Is there anyway to tell which devices are connected to 5G and which devices are connected to WiFi 6 AX mode on 5G? Is there a breakout like there is for 2.4G and 5G which tells you which is connected to,what. Thanks again in advance for all your help and patience.  Have a Great Night. 
Rottikid

Message 11 of 16
Mikey94025
Hero

Re: Orbi Router Model #RBR850 WiFi 6 WPA3 Ring cameras, Security System, other Devices can’t connect


@Rottikid wrote:

CrimpOn,
The only reason I want to use WPA3 is because it is necessary if I'm going to use WiFi 6.  I have  quite a few devices that use WiFi 6.  My iPhone, iPad, new Ring Pro Doorbell 2, and FireStick.


Besides the other info posted, note that none of these devices support WiFi 6e or the new 6Ghz band.  Expect new devices to support 6e and then those are the ones that will require WPA3.  However, WiFi 6 and AX (on the 5Ghz band) are supported by the Orbi 850 do not require WPA3.

 

https://kb.netgear.com/000064176/Does-my-Apple-iPhone-iPad-or-Mac-support-WiFi-6E

 

 

Message 12 of 16
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi Router Model #RBR850 WiFi 6 WPA3 Ring cameras, Security System, other Devices can’t connect

Not really. The RBR or RBS can show which freqency they are connected too. They don't show what wireless mode (G, N, AC or AX) when connected. Generally, most devices will use the highest connection mode that they support between them and the host router. 


@Rottikid wrote:

Furrye38,

Thank you so much for all your help.  I believe I understand how the Orbi RBR850 Tri-Band works.  I guess I'll just wait until Netgear gets it's mixed mode fixed. Is there anyway to tell which devices are connected to 5G and which devices are connected to WiFi 6 AX mode on 5G? Is there a breakout like there is for 2.4G and 5G which tells you which is connected to,what. Thanks again in advance for all your help and patience.  Have a Great Night. 
Rottikid


 

Message 13 of 16
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Orbi Router Model #RBR850 WiFi 6 WPA3 Ring cameras, Security System, other Devices can’t connect


@Rottikid wrote:

Is there anyway to tell which devices are connected to 5G and which devices are connected to WiFi 6 AX mode on 5G? Is there a breakout like there is for 2.4G and 5G which tells you which is connected to,what.


An interesting puzzle.  2.4G 802.11b/g/n has maximum data rates:

802.11b - 11mb

802.11g - 54mb

802.11n - 600 (theoretical)

If a 2.4G device is connected at a link rate higher than 54mb, is must be 802.11n (or ax?)

 

5G 802..11 has similar limits.  If the link rate is higher than 866, it must be ax.

 

The only devices that can be connected with ax must have the capability of ax.  That rules out a huge fraction of the devices in most homes.

 

Not having any myself, I wonder if any devices are capable of displaying ax connection?

Message 14 of 16
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi Router Model #RBR850 WiFi 6 WPA3 Ring cameras, Security System, other Devices can’t connect


@CrimpOn wrote:

@Rottikid wrote:

Is there anyway to tell which devices are connected to 5G and which devices are connected to WiFi 6 AX mode on 5G? Is there a breakout like there is for 2.4G and 5G which tells you which is connected to,what.


An interesting puzzle.  2.4G 802.11b/g/n has maximum data rates:

802.11b - 11mb

802.11g - 54mb

802.11n - 600 (theoretical)

If a 2.4G device is connected at a link rate higher than 54mb, is must be 802.11n (or ax?)

Yes, depends on what the device supports.

Don't forget AC. 80Mhz is 1300Mbps, 160 supports 1733Mpbs

 

5G 802..11 has similar limits.  If the link rate is higher than 866, it must be ax. Actually don't forget AC. 5Ghz AC supports up to 1733Mpbs if 160Mhz is suported on both devices. 

 

The only devices that can be connected with ax must have the capability of ax.  That rules out a huge fraction of the devices in most homes.

 

Not having any myself, I wonder if any devices are capable of displaying ax connection? Depends on there support. Why have some load up WifiSweetSpots app on some mobile devices, can get a ball part speed rate with this app.


 

Message 15 of 16
Rottikid
Guide

Re: Orbi Router Model #RBR850 WiFi 6 WPA3 Ring cameras, Security System, other Devices can’t connect

 CrimpOn,

Thanks so much for all your help. I now have a much better understanding about WiFi 6 ax. So basically WiFi 6ax works on the 5G network.  I looked at my Orbi network map and My iPhone 11 Pro Max link rate is 864 Mbps, my iPad Pro Max link rate is 1201 Mbps, my iPad Air 2 is 866 Mbps. Very interesting. They are WiFi 6ax.  I'm assuming that not many things are WiFi 6E capable and if they were that wound have their own stream a separate lane. So I'm guessing most manufacturers will be releasing more products that are WiFi 6ax now and eventually everything will go to WiFi 6E which will reduce congestion.  Have a Great day and thanks again.  You all are a great bunch of guys and gals. 

Message 16 of 16
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