Amazon appstore being blocked

[cdzo72]

Hello to all. Ok, while I am connected to my Orbi WiFi, any device is unable to access the Amazon appstore. I have disabled Disney Circle and Netgear Armor, leaving the Orbi to run without 3rd party addons. This is true for FireSticks and devices with Amazon appstore installed. If I disconnect from Orbi WiFi, on cellular devices I am then able to gain access and if I use cellular devices as a HotSpot for the FireSticks, they once again show Amazon appstore apps and can download and install. If I reconnect to Orbi, I once again lose ability to install Amazon apps.

Up until yesterday evening this was not an issue... I have had both Disney Circle and Netgear Armor services activated on my Orbi and have never had this issue. No new devices have been connected to the network or anything. No changes have been made except for disabling Disney Circle and Netgear Armor to narrow the problem down to the Orbi itself.

[CrimpOn]

Sorry to be so ignorant.  Is the Amazon "appstore" the same thing as "Amazon Shopping"?  I have only Android devices, and when I search Google's Play Store to load the app, I do not find one called (specifically) "Amazon App Store."

[cdzo72]

You have to download the app from Amazon directly I think. To answer your question though, no, they are not the same thing. There is the Amazon Shopping app and then there is the Amazon Appstore app, but that's not a problem, opening the app and getting as far as seeing the apps is possible, just won't let me download anything using the app on my handheld devices. But seeing as the problem persists on the Firesticks accessing the same apps, just from a difference and device, the destination they both call to must the same or under similar urls. 

The issue is that when you actually get into the apps on the Appstore and choose Install a message pops up saying that the payment has been declined.

On my FireStick, the problem manifests its way that it blocks the traffic from the Firesticks being able to load apps from the Amazon Appstore. On Firesticks below the Recents row there is a row that has all your installed apps. Also, if you long press the Home button, a screen comes up that allows you to see your apps kinds of like the apps screen on an Android phone or iPhone... with the FireStick connected to my Orbi WiFi I get a message that says authentication error occurred...

If I disconnect ANY of these devices from Orbi, the problem disappears. My cell phones if connected to their 4G networks can then install from Amazon. The FireSticks, if I connect them to the HotSpot on any of my phones, that app row I mentioned and the apps section are then populated.

Once I switch back to Orbi WiFi, the problem reemergers.

[CrimpOn]

I seem to recall a recent post about Amazon Prime streaming that was resolved by eliminating a "Double NAT" problem.

Is the Orbi (a) in "router" mode, and (b) connected to an ISP modem that is also a router?

[cdzo72]

I am running a dual wan setup through an Edge Router Lite 3. Running into that are my 2 ISP FTTH connections which are set to bridge only. NAT masquerade is setup for the dual wan setup on the EdgeRouter. The EdgeRouter provides a static local IP to the Orbi. How do I know the Orbi is the issue... any other router I connect behind the dual wan works perfectly without touching a single setting in the EdgeRouter. Zero issues of any kind for VOIP calls, streaming, downloading, zero issues. I connect the Orbi and issues immediately arise.

[FURRYe38]

This would be a double NAT (two router) condition which isn't recommended. https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT
https://kb.netgear.com/30187/How-to-fix-issues-with-Double-NAT
Couple of options,
1. Configure the modem for transparent bridge or modem only mode. Then use the Orbi router in router mode. You'll need to contact the ISP for help and information in regards to the modem being bridged correctly.
2. If you can't bridge the modem, disable ALL wifi radios on the modem, configure the modems DMZ/ExposedHost or IP Pass-Through for the IP address the Orbi router gets from the modem. Then you can use the Orbi router in Router mode.
3. Or disable all wifi radios on the modem and connect the Orbi router to the modem, configure AP mode on the Orbi router. https://kb.netgear.com/31218/How-do-I-configure-my-Orbi-router-to-act-as-an-access-point and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7LOcJ8GdDo&app=desktop

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@cdzo72 wrote:

I am running a dual wan setup through an Edge Router Lite 3. Running into that are my 2 ISP FTTH connections which are set to bridge only. NAT masquerade is setup for the dual wan setup on the EdgeRouter. The EdgeRouter provides a static local IP to the Orbi. How do I know the Orbi is the issue... any other router I connect behind the dual wan works perfectly without touching a single setting in the EdgeRouter. Zero issues of any kind for VOIP calls, streaming, downloading, zero issues. I connect the Orbi and issues immediately arise.

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[cdzo72]

Neither FTTH modem can be put in Bridge Mode because I get an IPTV subscription from each BUT both modems have the radios shutoff and neither transmit WiFi signals NOR hand out DHCP addresses. Each is hardwired to it's perspective boxes and each with a dedicated LAN port that goes to the EdgeRouter for the dual wan. I assure you the setup IN FRONT of the Orbi is correctly configured, NAT rules, firewalls, the works.. it has ALL BEEN DONE by the techs that provide the services and I will reiterate, I have 3 OTHER ROUTERS that I can put in place of the Orbi and NONE of the 3 give me the issue I am looking a solution to. There is NOTHING wrong with double NAT as long as it's correctly configured and it's also a must when using a DUAL WAN configuration.

AP mode on the Orbi is also NOT an option considering the ONLY reason I purchased Netgear Orbi instead of Unifi Mesh, the real deal, was for the Circle parental controls and BitDefender integration, BTW both have been disabled on the Orbi trying to get this issue resolved and it made no difference.

[FURRYe38]

Try option #2...I would try option #3 just to see if AP mode clears your issue. Double NAT can work if you use the DMZ on the upstream host router for the RBR. 

I would also disable Circle as well. There have been known issues with Circle being enabled causing problems...

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@cdzo72 wrote:

Neither FTTH modem can be put in Bridge Mode because I get an IPTV subscription from each BUT both modems have the radios shutoff and neither transmit WiFi signals NOR hand out DHCP addresses. Each is hardwired to it's perspective boxes and each with a dedicated LAN port that goes to the EdgeRouter for the dual wan. I assure you the setup IN FRONT of the Orbi is correctly configured, NAT rules, firewalls, the works.. it has ALL BEEN DONE by the techs that provide the services and I will reiterate, I have 3 OTHER ROUTERS that I can put in place of the Orbi and NONE of the 3 give me the issue I am looking a solution to. There is NOTHING wrong with double NAT as long as it's correctly configured and it's also a must when using a DUAL WAN configuration.

AP mode on the Orbi is also NOT an option considering the ONLY reason I purchased Netgear Orbi instead of Unifi Mesh, the real deal, was for the Circle parental controls and BitDefender integration, BTW both have been disabled on the Orbi trying to get this issue resolved and it made no difference.

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[cdzo72]

Im sorry but are you not reading what I write? I clearly stated that the WiFI radios are disabled on both ISP modems. I have also stated that Disney Circle and Netgear Armor have been disabled from the Orbi, the Orbi has been reset several times to make sure that neither service is on the Orbi. Port forwarding is also setup on each modem to allow connection on specified ports for each LAN connection, neither modem is handing out any type of DHCP or address or passing traffic that is not explicitly configured in each one's settings. 

I will reiterate, the configuration IN FRONT of the Orbi is sound and there is no reason to change it UNLESS someone can pinpoint for me what it is the Orbi needs that several other routers, including another Netgear do not need to run behind my system and not pose connection problems.

I don't want to seem rude but it's frustrating when I see my post is not being read.

[FURRYe38]

I am reading the posts and information. 

I have ran my Obri behind a upstream router as well. However I always use the DMZ on the host router for any router thats behind it. 

I have no problems with Amazon or other internet services when I connect thru the Orbi system thats in a DMZ. Others have used this as well have have not reported seeing the problems you have. Or they have reported seeing problems similar however DMZ or IP pass thru for the RBR in this double NAT condition resolved there problem. 

[cdzo72]

I understand that, but obviously there is something in the way that the Orbi handles it's traffic that gives problems. I have the DMZ and port forwarding setup on both modems from the ISPs and the NAT rules and port forwarding on the EdgeRouter handling the dual wan have been setup by an EdgeRouter developer that does work for both of my ISPs, so he knows the settings that have to be in place for everything to jive. I live in Costa Rica, so communication with ISPs here is different from most other places, it's much easier to get access to their techs because it could literally be the guy next door, not some dude in an office locked up that no one ever sees... I can call him up when either of my ISPs is having issues and he either fixes it or tells me they are having problems, to sit tight. 

[FURRYe38]

As a quick test, try the RBR in AP mode to see if the problem still happens. 

Revert back to router mode after trying this. 

[CrimpOn]

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@cdzo72 wrote:

 I have 3 OTHER ROUTERS that I can put in place of the Orbi and NONE of the 3 give me the issue I am looking a solution to. There is NOTHING wrong with double NAT as long as it's correctly configured and it's also a must when using a DUAL WAN configuration.

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Would you be comfortable describing the three routers that function correctly?

As a "lab investigation", this problem is fascinating. In daily life, a terrible frustration.  I am pretty confident that with the Amazon App Store working fine and then suddenly one day it doesn't, then "something has changed" and the task is to identify what changed.  It seems to me that there have been a number of recent posts involving Amazon services suddenly not working.  At least one issue (as I recall) was solved by the ISP.

My inclination would be to examine the WAN/LAN logs looking for a connection attempt from somewhere in Amazon Web Services that fails to connect.  But, even documenting the problem does not provide relief.

[CrimpOn]

My web search failed.  All I turned up recently was this one about streaming video:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-RBR10-Unable-to-play-Amazon-Prime/m-p/1895468#M88935 

I had thought, "how could a Double-NAT possibly interfere with streaming video?"  If it did, then thousands of customers all over the world would be screaming mad because a huge number of them just plug their new WiFi router into their existing router and leave them both in router mode.  Not Netgear specific.  People plug in WiFi from Google, Linksys, Asus... everybody.

I would not be surprised if there is a bug in the Orbi NAT translation software.  Maybe some assumption about NAT port numbers that was correct years ago but no longer is.  Oh, geez.  What about IPv6?

Sorry to have gone off track.

[cdzo72]

1) This is my original system... Linksys EA8500 with a couple of extenders

2) Linksys EA9300, which was actually working fine, plenty of power for my home along with one extender, but I switched to Orbi specifically to use Disney Circle and Netgear Armor BitDefender integration

3) UniFi system with USG, CloudKey, UniFi Switch8-150W and 4 UAP-AC-Pros (I have this system laying around, upgraded the network at my parents' B&B with newer UniFi

Yes, I have seen several forums where people are having issues with Amazon, which is a problem... BUT, the kicker is that any of those 3 systems run without fault, ALL BEHIND my dual wan, zero changes

[cdzo72]

No need to apologize at all, this crap is frustrating. You're right, if Double NAT were "a problem" then millions of people would be up in arms... my networking knowledge is extremely limited, nor do I care to learn much about it... why, because it's like accounting... you put the numbers up and make it work out to however suits you... I don't really see it flowing like it should... if it were, anyone could figure it out...

The AP "solution" is not a solution. Netgear COULD advertise the Orbi system and dumb it way down and sell it as an AP type system with a hub and remove all that integration BUT they are trying to cram that stuff into the Orbi and if you look in SmallNetBuilder forums you'll see JUST how much crap the Netgear firmware is. I have had several there tell me that if I want to fix my system to flash some of that custom firmware and my problems would be resolved...well, that would be nice if I could use the features for which I bought the Orbi.

Sorry, I'm guilty of a rant once in a while myself.

Logs, don't even have a clue where to start.

Here's a clue though... IF I run a VPN on any of the devices and set it have only certain apps using the VPN and include the Appstore app, the issue disappears... just found that out a little while ago by mistake setting up a FireStick from scratch to see if there was something in my configuration causing the problem. I mistakenly added the Appstore and it worked...

[cdzo72]

I wanted to mention that I flashed Voxels's firmware yesterday... guess what... problem disappeared... ZERO changes in configuration. JUUUUUUST to be sure, I returned the Orbi to stock Netgear... whatcha think happened??? Problem resurfaces. So, this morning flashing the custom firmware back.