Can Orbi cause problems for Virgin Media SuperHub 3?

[struan99]

Problem: I am using a Virgin Media Superhub 3 in modem mode, connected to a Netgear Orbi RBR50 router. Periodically (sometimes every 5 minutes or so, sometimes once an hour), the Superhub loses its internet connection, its lights flash, and it restarts -- a process that takes a few minutes. When that happens, I lose all internet connectivity, both over ethernet and wifi (we lose our phone line too, which is wired to the Superhub). This problem has persisted for a week. Prior to that, my setup gave me fast, stable connectivity for some months. Does this make sense to anyone?

More info: I had assumed the problem was with Virgin Media, but Virgin Media hasn't been able to fix my issue (though they haven't yet tried replacing the Superhub). I'm now wondering if it could be the Orbi? When I put the Superhub into router mode, and disconnect the Orbi, the router seems to work OK. 

Until recently, my Orbi router was wired to a Netgear network switch (managed), model GS116E. I had ethernet cables running from the network switch to 3 Orbi satellites around our home. A few other devices were connected to the switch via ethernt, and various others were connected over wifi. In order to diagnose the problem, I switched off the Orbi satellites and disconnected everything from the router (meaning the Superhub is wired to the Orbi RBR50, and nothing else is wired to that). But I only get a few minutes of connectivity over wifi before the Superhub resets itself. Any suggestions would be gratefully received 🙂 

Thanks,

Struan

[struan99 · Accepted solution]

I wasn't able to open that spreadsheet (I don't have Excel, and tried in Google Spreadsheets without success). Also, the Superhub 3 lost its connection again this morning while running in router mode and connected to the Orbi. However, I had another (a third!) visit from Virgin Media today. The engineer switched my hub, giving me a Superhub 4 to replace the Superhub 3. When the engineer tried to put that Superhub 4 in modem mode, with the Orbi connected, nothing worked. When he tried putting it in router mode, and disabling wifi via the Superhub 4's control panel, everything did work. I've had a stable connection for the intervening 3 hours or so. I'll cross my fingers that it all continues working, though I'm still baffled as to what went wrong originally, or *why* this approach would work. Thanks for helping me with all this!

[FURRYe38]

Have the ISP check the signal and line quality UP to the modem. Be sure the ISP provisions the modem correctly.
Be sure there are no coax cable line splitters in the between the modem and ISP service box. 
Be sure your using good quality RG6 coax cable up to the modem. 
Be sure to power OFF the modem for 1 minute them back ON.

What Firmware version is currently loaded?
What is the Mfr and model# of the Internet Service Providers modem/ONT the NG router is connected too?

.

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet or more is recommended in between RBR and RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected.

Is the RBR directly connected to the ISP superhub router or is there a switch in between. Normally, any external router should be directly connected to the modem/ont. Any switches needed are connected behind the RBR or external router. 

Try option #2 then #3:

Your ISP Modem already has a built in router and wifi. This would be a double NAT (two router) condition which isn't recommended. https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT
https://kb.netgear.com/30187/How-to-fix-issues-with-Double-NAT
Couple of options,
1. Configure the modem for transparent bridge or modem only mode. Then use the Orbi router in router mode. You'll need to contact the ISP for help and information in regards to the modem being bridged correctly.
2. If you can't bridge the modem, disable ALL wifi radios on the modem, configure the modems DMZ/ExposedHost or IP Pass-Through for the IP address the Orbi router gets from the modem. Then you can use the Orbi router in Router mode.
3. Or disable all wifi radios on the modem and connect the Orbi router to the modem, configure AP mode on the Orbi router. https://kb.netgear.com/31218/How-do-I-configure-my-Orbi-router-to-act-as-an-access-point and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7LOcJ8GdDo&app=desktop

[struan99]

Thanks for the reply, but some of this answer doesn't seem relevant to the issue I described. Is my issue familiar? I'm just a bit unclear why I've had good stability for months, then it would drop a week ago; are you sure DMZ mode is the answer here?

[struan99]

Just to answer one question: my Orbi's firmware is V2.7.3.22. I don't think home square footage is relevant to my issue. Thanks!

[CrimpOn]

---

@struan99 wrote:

More info: I had assumed the problem was with Virgin Media, but Virgin Media hasn't been able to fix my issue (though they haven't yet tried replacing the Superhub). I'm now wondering if it could be the Orbi? When I put the Superhub into router mode, and disconnect the Orbi, the router seems to work OK. 

---

In addition to leaning on Virgin Media to explain why their Superhub keeps restarting itself, how about trying this experiment:

Leave the Superhub in router mode and reconnect the Orbi.  There are two choices for the Orbi:

• Leave it in router mode.  Thousands of customers do this every day. They unbox their new WiFi (of any brand) connect it to the existing ISP box, use the WiFi credentials printed on the label, and never look back.  This works fine unless the customer relies on some very specific applications, such as port forwarding, VPN into the Orbi LAN from the internet, and certain types of internet gaming.
  https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT 
  This way, anything you had the Orbi set to do (besides those specific items) remains in place, such as assiging IP's to devices, defining custom DNS servers, using Armor or Circle, etc.
• Change the Orbi to access point (AP) mode. This allows those applications to be hosted on the Superhub (not the Orbi because it is no longer a router).

This experiment will be a step toward ruling out the Orbi as the "problem."

[FURRYe38]

These are troubleshooting steps and maybe necessary to try them to see if this helps with the problems your seeing, relevant or not, may lead to you finding the cause and or resolution. The more feed back you give us to the questions presented the better we can help you.

Good Luck. 

---

@struan99 wrote:
Thanks for the reply, but some of this answer doesn't seem relevant to the issue I described. Is my issue familiar? I'm just a bit unclear why I've had good stability for months, then it would drop a week ago; are you sure DMZ mode is the answer here?

---

[CrimpOn]

---

@struan99 wrote:

Just to answer one question: my Orbi's firmware is V2.7.3.22. I don't think home square footage is relevant to my issue. Thanks!

---

Did the issues start when the Orbi firmware was updated to V2.7.3.22?

[struan99]

Hi CrimpOn, that's a good question. I believe the firmware update happened automatically. I didn't take any steps to update it. The problems began on August 25; is there a way to see when my firmware updated to V2.7.3.22? Meanwhile, I've tried your first experiment: I have the Superhub running in router mode, and I've just connected the Orbi, also running in router mode. I'll see how that goes, and then update this thread. If that remains stable, what conclusion should I draw?

[CrimpOn]

---

@struan99 wrote:

I've just connected the Orbi, also running in router mode. I'll see how that goes, and then update this thread. If that remains stable, what conclusion should I draw?

---

There used to be a way to telnet into the Orbi and display the date of last firmware update.

One of the more expert users on the forum created an Exce spreadsheet that displays the date of last firmware update:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o0eaj5kjs3cpxcc/ORBI%20Soap%20Request.xlsm?dl=0 

If you use Excel, download this spreadsheet (icon in upper right of page) and open it with Excel.

Put in the password and then click in the big white box.

I remain mystified how anything that a router does can cause a modem to reboot.  Send garbage ethernet packets?

If it were nof for the fact that almost every week someone posts about this happening, I would state that  it is impossible.

[struan99 · Accepted solution]

I wasn't able to open that spreadsheet (I don't have Excel, and tried in Google Spreadsheets without success). Also, the Superhub 3 lost its connection again this morning while running in router mode and connected to the Orbi. However, I had another (a third!) visit from Virgin Media today. The engineer switched my hub, giving me a Superhub 4 to replace the Superhub 3. When the engineer tried to put that Superhub 4 in modem mode, with the Orbi connected, nothing worked. When he tried putting it in router mode, and disabling wifi via the Superhub 4's control panel, everything did work. I've had a stable connection for the intervening 3 hours or so. I'll cross my fingers that it all continues working, though I'm still baffled as to what went wrong originally, or *why* this approach would work. Thanks for helping me with all this!

[struan99]

...and it's still stable. So, I'll consider the issue solved. Still baffled, but at least I'm baffled and connected 🙂

[FURRYe38]

Be sure to save off a back up configuration to file for safe keeping. Saves time if a reset is needed.
https://kb.netgear.com/000062080/How-do-I-back-up-the-configuration-settings-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-System
Enjoy.

[ROLgear]

hi @struan99 I am in a similar position, before I go chasing Virgin I was wondering if you had the problems repeat after the visit. Thanks 

[struan99]

Hi there,

I didn't have that same problem after the visit. I have had another, unrelated problem with my Virgin Media service, but that one was resolved. (The next problem that I had was with packet loss - which turned out to be a fault in the cable in the street. That only took a further few months of calls, call-outs, and general annoyance to fix. I really hate the service I get from Virgin Media.)