Re: Guest Network Issues with RBR50 and RBW30

bdsmith63 · ‎2021-06-09

A previous topic on the guest network not working with the RBR50 and the RBW30 mesh system has been closed from last year, or I would have posted to that board. One user suggested unplugging the RBW30 add-on, but that doesn't solve the issue as I need the extended network coverage, or revert to an earlier firmware version however newer firmware versions are out and updated on my system, and another suggestion to reset the Orbi system, which would be an enormous task given the amount of connected devices I have across my network. However, IF I did reset my system and used the exact same WiFi password would my devices reconnect again without having to configure all my devices, other than reconnect the WiFI to some of them again?

Closed Topic Link

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Guest-network-not-working-on-the-RBR50-RBW30-mesh-system-and-2...

From my best recollection, my issues didn't start until I added the RBW30 add-on satellite to my system. I've never had issues with users staying connected with internet access on my guest network, until recently, as the guest network has had limited users access it due to the pandemic over the past year. I can get get the user connected, they appear to have internet access for short minute or two and then it does not work, but shows they're connected to the network.

I am running the following firmware:

RBR50/RBS50 v2.7.2.104

RBW30 v2.6.2.2

Any advice on where to start with this problem? Another question, would it make better sense to just add another RBS50 satellite and completely remove the RBW30 from my network? I am running the base unit (RBR50) from my basement connected to Ethernet, the satellite unit (RBS50) on my main floor, and the RBW30 on the main floor approximately 30-40 feet from the satellite. The basement area is approximately 1,400 sq ft, the main floor is 3,300.

I have no issues with connectivity on my regular network with all my devices.

Thanks!

CrimpOn · ‎2021-06-09

@bdsmith63 wrote:
From my best recollection, my issues didn't start until I added the RBW30 add-on satellite to my system. I've never had issues with users staying connected with internet access on my guest network, until recently, as the guest network has had limited users access it due to the pandemic over the past year. I can get get the user connected, they appear to have internet access for short minute or two and then it does not work, but shows they're connected to the network.

Any advice on where to start with this problem? Another question, would it make better sense to just add another RBS50 satellite and completely remove the RBW30 from my network? I am running the base unit (RBR50) from my basement connected to Ethernet, the satellite unit (RBS50) on my main floor, and the RBW30 on the main floor approximately 30-40 feet from the satellite. The basement area is approximately 1,400 sq ft, the main floor is 3,300.

Devices connected to the Guest WiFi are attempting only to access the internet, correct?

(not any resource on the primary Orbi network)

I love the idea of replacing the RBW30 with another RBS50. This is not a solution, but more of a workaround.

Does it make any difference:

Which type of device is connected to the Guest WiFi?
(smartphone, laptop, other?)
Where the device is located when attempting to connect?
(i.e. is it close to the RBW30 or close to one of the "50" units?)
Whether the Guest WiFi setting is to "allow Guests to see each other and access the local network" is checked or not checked?

bdsmith63 · ‎2021-06-09

Devices connected to the Guest WiFi are attempting only to access the internet, correct?

(not any resource on the primary Orbi network) CORRECT

I love the idea of replacing the RBW30 with another RBS50. This is not a solution, but more of a workaround. WHY IS THIS MORE OF A WORKAROUND THAN A SOLUTION?

Does it make any difference:

Which type of device is connected to the Guest WiFi?
(smartphone, laptop, other?) SMARTPHONES, TABLETS
Where the device is located when attempting to connect?
(i.e. is it close to the RBW30 or close to one of the "50" units?) USERS HAVE BEEN WITHIN 3-6 FT OF THE RBW30 AND 30-40 FT OF THE "50" UNITS, ONE WAS CONNECTED TO THE RBS50 BUT SITTING WITHIN 10 FT OF THE RBW30.
Whether the Guest WiFi setting is to "allow Guests to see each other and access the local network" is checked or not checked? NOT CHECKED

As an additional help: I disconnected my iPad from the main WiFi network and connected it to the guest network, attempted to test some of the websites my son was attempting to access, i didn't have the same problems he did, my iPad brought them up just fine.

bdsmith63 · ‎2021-06-09

One additional setting I just checked some settings, under my router Administration settings for NTP, it was set to: GMT-05:00 Bogoto, Lima, Quito instead of Eastern Time (US & Canada) and the box checked for Daylight Savings Time. I read this was something somebody suggested in the previous closed topic. I have the NTP server just set to the default Netgear NTP server. This may have nothing to do with the issue.

CrimpOn · ‎2021-06-09

@bdsmith63 wrote:
As an additional help: I disconnected my iPad from the main WiFi network and connected it to the guest network, attempted to test some of the websites my son was attempting to access, i didn't have the same problems he did, my iPad brought them up just fine.

On the web interface Attached Devices page, does it say Access Control is on or off?

(I leave it off on my Orbi. If someone can learn my 25 character password, they deserve to steal my Internet.)

iOS has a feature to randomize the WiFi MAC address, which can make the iPad appear to be a different device each time it joins WiFi.

Are there only certain web sites that do not connect, or is it every web site?

I totally forgot to ask if Parental Controls (of any sort) are activated?

CrimpOn · ‎2021-06-09

@bdsmith63 wrote:
One additional setting I just checked some settings, under my router Administration settings for NTP, it was set to: GMT-05:00 Bogoto, Lima, Quito instead of Eastern Time (US & Canada) and the box checked for Daylight Savings Time. I read this was something somebody suggested in the previous closed topic. I have the NTP server just set to the default Netgear NTP server. This may have nothing to do with the issue.

This probably depends on whether the location observes Daylight Saving Time. In the US, for example, Netgear shows a setting for Mountain Time and also for Arizona Time (because Arizona does not observe Daylight Saving Time). Indiana just went totally to Daylight Saving Time in 2006, which might explain why there is separate setting for Indiana (that is left over from LONG AGO).

Agree it should have nothing to do with the issue.

alokeprasad · ‎2021-06-09

My Orbi is 1 hr behind (I never bothered to switch it to Daylight Saving.. don't plan to).

It is working fine.

The problem will fix itself on November 7

CrimpOn · ‎2021-06-09

I agree, the Time Zone should have no impact on how Guest WiFi works.

I am guessing that this iPad has been connected to some other WiFi networks without problem?

(I typically set up a WiFi "hot spot" on my cell phone to test things. With the Pandemic, I have fewer options to borrow WiFi for a few minutes.)

bdsmith63 · ‎2021-06-10

On the web interface Attached Devices page, does it say Access Control is on or off? IT IS ON, GENERALLY, WHEN MY CHILDREN COME OVER, THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING BUT USE THEIR DEVICE AS IT AUTOMATICALLY CONNECTS TO MY GUEST WIFI.

(I leave it off on my Orbi. If someone can learn my 25 character password, they deserve to steal my Internet.)

iOS has a feature to randomize the WiFi MAC address, which can make the iPad appear to be a different device each time it joins WiFi.

Are there only certain web sites that do not connect, or is it every web site? IT APPEARED FROM ANY WEBSITE, THEY COULD ACCESS SEVERAL WEBSITES, BUT THEY APPEARED TO STOP WORKING

I totally forgot to ask if Parental Controls (of any sort) are activated? NO

bdsmith63 · ‎2021-06-11

If I reset my Orbi router, and use the exact same WiFi password that I have not, will most all of my devices either automatically reconnect or hopefully just need to sign in again with the same password without any issues? ...I have a TON of devices and logins -- would take me HOURS to get it all done! Hate to think of doing that to solve the guest network issue?.......

CrimpOn · ‎2021-06-11

@bdsmith63 wrote:
If I reset my Orbi router, and use the exact same WiFi password that I have now, will most all of my devices either automatically reconnect or hopefully just need to sign in again with the same password without any issues? ...I have a TON of devices and logins -- would take me HOURS to get it all done! Hate to think of doing that to solve the guest network issue?.......

Yes, I always use the same SSID/password when doing a reset (or installing a brand new WiFi router). All my devices connect automatically.

bdsmith63 · ‎2021-06-11

So I shouldn't experience much issue -- you just do a factory reset, and then start all over again it sound like? Are you running the latest firmware on all your devices? You might have already shared this and I missed it.

CrimpOn · ‎2021-06-11

@bdsmith63 wrote:
So I shouldn't experience much issue -- you just do a factory reset, and then start all over again it sound like? Are you running the latest firmware on all your devices? You might have already shared this and I missed it.

Well....."It's complicated".

Yes, my Orbi router and satellites are on the latest firmware, which is really a touchy subject. In my four years with the Orbi I have never experienced serious problems on any verion of firmware. I was hit with that ugly DNS/Traffic Meter issue last March and I went through a spell of Attached Devices not being complete on 2.7.2.104. My general practice is to postpone installing new firmware until at least a month has gone by with no serious complaints on the forum. (I have one Orbi system that remains on 2.3.5.0 from 2019 because it is 3,000 miles away and I'm not going to attempt a firmware update until I can be physically present to do it.) I honestly do not think the specific firmware version matters a lot unless things are not working.

In my case, I have spent (literally) hours and hours assigning specific IP addresses to each of my permanent devices and customizing the way they appear in Attached Devices. I am somewhat OCD, and I want all my security cameras to appear with consequitive IP addresses, all the smart speakers together, the smart plugs together, etc. I like knowing that my printer is 192.168.1.4 I also use OpenVPN and DDNS for remote access. Configuring all this from scratch takes 2-3 hours. So, I am reluctant to do a Full Factory Reset. What I have done a couple of times is save the config to my PC, Factory Reset, and then reload the config to the Orbi router. This is a 15 minute job.

It is possible to run an Orbi without configuring anything. Plug it in. Use the SSID/password printed on the label and be happy. Alas, that is not a "nerdly activity."

One tip: because I have customized my Orbi, when I do either the Full or 'reload config' reset, when the Orbi first powers on I do not change the SSID to the one I have had for 15 years at first. If I did that, devices would start connecting and getting random IP addresses before I have any chance to reload the config or define anything. Reloadig the config causes a restart with the saved credentials. Waiting until I have finished configuring everything also keeps devices off until I am ready for them.

bdsmith63 · ‎2021-06-11

@CrimpOn wrote:
@bdsmith63 wrote:
So I shouldn't experience much issue -- you just do a factory reset, and then start all over again it sound like? Are you running the latest firmware on all your devices? You might have already shared this and I missed it.

In my case, I have spent (literally) hours and hours assigning specific IP addresses to each of my permanent devices and customizing the way they appear in Attached Devices. I am somewhat OCD, and I want all my security cameras to appear with consequitive IP addresses, all the smart speakers together, the smart plugs together, etc. I like knowing that my printer is 192.168.1.4 I also use OpenVPN and DDNS for remote access. Configuring all this from scratch takes 2-3 hours. So, I am reluctant to do a Full Factory Reset. What I have done a couple of times is save the config to my PC, Factory Reset, and then reload the config to the Orbi router. This is a 15 minute job.

I would be greatly interested in how to do what you've done, I'm semi-technical, but not sure how to actually do the assigned IP addresses and then make a backup copy to reload, if I do a complete reset. I guess given your current situation you don't have issues with your guest network functioning normal for any guests that use it? I am definitely somewhat OCD with my network, but haven't ventured that far with the specific IP addresses!

It is possible to run an Orbi without configuring anything. Plug it in. Use the SSID/password printed on the label and be happy. Alas, that is not a "nerdly activity."

One tip: because I have customized my Orbi, when I do either the Full or 'reload config' reset, when the Orbi first powers on I do not change the SSID to the one I have had for 15 years at first. If I did that, devices would start connecting and getting random IP addresses before I have any chance to reload the config or define anything. Reloadig the config causes a restart with the saved credentials. Waiting until I have finished configuring everything also keeps devices off until I am ready for them.

CrimpOn · ‎2021-06-11

@bdsmith63 wrote:
I would be greatly interested in how to do what you've done, I'm semi-technical, but not sure how to actually do the assigned IP addresses and then make a backup copy to reload, if I do a complete reset. I guess given your current situation you don't have issues with your guest network functioning normal for any guests that use it? I am definitely somewhat OCD with my network, but haven't ventured that far with the specific IP addresses!

I have never had problems with Guest WiFi, so I have never had to confront how to 'fix' it.

The Orbi web interface provides tools to customize how devices are assigned IP's on the

Advanced Tab, Setup, LAN Setup page. Under "Use Router as DHCP Server", define the range of IP addresses to be used for temporary devices. Any IP's outside this range can be assigned to devices without fear of accidental duplication. Everybody has a unique way to approach this. My range is 71-99 for temporary devices, which leaves 2-70 and 100-254 for things I want to assign. ( Some people do 2-100 and 101-254.) I am probably not thinking ahead enough by leaving space for only 70 devices... oh, well.

Then, decide how you want to assign IP's to your permanent devices. Just add things one at a time? Group similar devices together? Whatever feels right. Use the bottom section of the page to Add one device at a time by the Device MAC address. After several devices have been added, click on Apply.

Now the Attached Devices display can be used to customize how each device appears. Click on a device and a box will open to define the device name, device model number, and device type.

None of this is necessary. I just felt like doing it and could not seem to quit.

bdsmith63 · ‎2021-06-11

@CrimpOn wrote:
@bdsmith63 wrote:
I would be greatly interested in how to do what you've done, I'm semi-technical, but not sure how to actually do the assigned IP addresses and then make a backup copy to reload, if I do a complete reset. I guess given your current situation you don't have issues with your guest network functioning normal for any guests that use it? I am definitely somewhat OCD with my network, but haven't ventured that far with the specific IP addresses!
None of this is necessary. I just felt like doing it and could not seem to quit.

Thank you for your help, I certainly will take a look at all of this and see how I might want to set mine up. I assume there are benefits to doing this over letting the system automatically assign IP addresses. My Orbi app shows under Device Manager 39 devices, when I go into that menu, it lists 82 devices. I've got at least 69 or so Lutron devices that work just through the Lutron hub alone.

CrimpOn · ‎2021-06-11

The Orbi remembers every device that has ever connected - every single one. My 35 devices turned into 124 in the Orbi app.

If things connect through a hub, they probably are not listed as separate devices to the Orbi.

bdsmith63 · ‎2021-06-11

@CrimpOn wrote:
The Orbi remembers every device that has ever connected - every single one. My 35 devices turned into 124 in the Orbi app.
If things connect through a hub, they probably are not listed as separate devices to the Orbi.

You're right about that - that certainly is why my number of devices have exploded! I've got some work to do eventually, thanks for all your collaborative help!

CrimpOn · ‎2021-06-11

Although disconcerting to us, there actually is a valid reason for remembering every device that has ever connected.

Access Control has two settings:

Allow new devices to connect, or
Not allow new devices to connect.

Just because some device has not appeared on the network for months does not make it "new" when it finally appears.

Keeping track of every device that has ever been allowed solves this. "Oh, you're back."

Since I do not use Access Control, I find the huge list annoying and purge it.

When someone comes to visit next year, their WiFi device may remember my Orbi and connect automatically (no Access Control to block them).

lako038 · ‎2021-06-14

Yes I am also facing the similar guest network issues and have no idea how do I solve this issue because never faced this issue before please guide me about it. I read about it but that guide is for higher level persons.

bdsmith63 · ‎2021-06-14

@lako038 wrote:
Yes I am also facing the similar guest network issues and have no idea how do I solve this issue because never faced this issue before please guide me about it. I read about it but that guide is for higher level persons.

I have not made any changes yet to my network. CrimpOn has offered a lot of advice and guidance on some functions that would make managing our Orbi systems very efficient, I am not a high-level person, but do enjoy some of the technical aspects of managing my home network as I've invested in a lot of devices!

My kids and my grandkids are the only ones that really use the guest network, but I like keeping their devices segregated from my network --- so I need to get it figured out for them. Next weekend I will try and complete reset of my network, it involves a lot of hours making sure everything is all connected again. I just changed the WiFi password about a month ago and that took a good amount of time to re-login all my devices!