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Hidden Orbi QOS settings. Do they work?

Breggen
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Hidden Orbi QOS settings. Do they work?

Once you are logged into your Orbi router webpage, http://orbilogin.net,  the UI on the web pages does not seem to include any options for QOS settings. There is a link For "QOS Setup" If you click on "Advanced" and then "Setup" but the page it brings you to only has the option to run an OOKLA speed test and nothing esle.

However, once you are logged into your Orbi router if you manually type this address into the URL, http://orbi login.net/QOS_main.htm, you can get to several pages that have more options for setting QOS priorities.  

My questions is, do these priorities even work? I have set several priorities, from "normal" to "highest", for various MAC addresses and the LAN ports but I don't know if they are even doing anything on my Orbi router. Are they?

On the first page you can seemingly enable or disable WMM and turn "Internet access QOS" on or off. WMM is ebabled by default and Internet access QOS seems to be turned off by default. I left WMM enabled and turned Internet access QOS on becuase I assumed that if I did not turn it on the priorities I set would have no effect (assuming that they might work at all).  

There is also an an option to "Enable upstream QOS" which does not seemingly work. 

At the bottom of the page is a "SETUP QOS RULE" link which brings you to another page where you can delete or edit 30 QOS priorities that are already seeminlgly in place and where you can create new priorities.

I would really appreciate someone from Netgear explaining what is going on with these semingly hidden QOS settings on the Orbo roouter.

Model: RBK50| Orbi AC3000 High-Performance Tri-Band WiFi System
Message 1 of 10
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Hidden Orbi QOS settings. Do they work?

Probably just a place holder or a common template used for all NG routers. I see Setup QoS rules takes you to the speedtest app and not the more advanced QoS settings to input values. Something NG may or maynot bring to the Orbi. Will be up to them. Users have asked about more advanced QOS features. Up to NG though. 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.2.1(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v4.6.3.16(AP) & RBK752 v4.6.5.14
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, CBR750, RBK50(v22), SXR30(v110), R7000(v34), R7800(v84), R7960P(v82), EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v120) and WNHDE111
Message 2 of 10
st_shaw
Master

Re: Hidden Orbi QOS settings. Do they work?

You should assume that the hidden pages do not work.

 

If you go to the non-hidden Orbi QoS page (at http://192.168.1.1/adv_index.htm) and click on the ? help icon at the bottom you can read a description of NETGEAR's Dynamic QoS function that is supported by the router

 

----------- 

Dynamic QoS Help

Dynamic QoS improves online gaming and online streaming quality by prioritizing Internet bandwidth usage. When the router detects online gaming and online streaming traffic, the router tries to limit background traffic such as BitTorrent or FTP downloads to improve gaming and streaming.

Internet Bandwidth - Let Speedtest detect my Internet bandwidth (recommended): Accurate Internet bandwidth is required for Dynamic QoS to work properly. The router automatically runs Speedtest the first time you enable Dynamic QoS. Click the Speedtest button to recheck your bandwidth. Avoid any Internet activity while Speedtest is running.

------------

 

Several NETGEAR routers have "Dynamic QoS" which requires no settings from the user.  A speedtest is run, then the results are used to set the upload and download limits that one would normally enter into a manual QoS menu. This is why there are no settings for you.  None are required.

 

I have no idea whether Orbi's Dynamic QoS works.  I use Orbi in AP mode, so I've never tried it.  You can try it for yourself, but you'd need to reset the router to do a baseline test with no QoS, as there's no way to turn the feature off.

Message 3 of 10
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Hidden Orbi QOS settings. Do they work?

I believe someone did some sort of test a while back and posted that even though it seemed that QoS wasn't realy working, he found it was. I presume the QoS feature on the Orbi is probably fairly basic and probably does some form of minimal QoS. It sesms to be doing something as my Orbi in router mode is doing a fairly good job of handling two game consoles, video streaming and cameras withg out a hitch since I installed it. Installed my friends RBK50 (router mode) and he's got 3 game consoles there. Working for him.

 

Who knows what NG put in these things. Thats IP and problably won't get any more info from NG regarding it. 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.2.1(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v4.6.3.16(AP) & RBK752 v4.6.5.14
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, CBR750, RBK50(v22), SXR30(v110), R7000(v34), R7800(v84), R7960P(v82), EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v120) and WNHDE111
Message 4 of 10
Breggen
Star

Re: Hidden Orbi QOS settings. Do they work?

I had called customer service about this question yesterday and I just got a response after they apparently "contacted their level two technical team".
They said that the hidden QOS settings do in fact work but that Netgear plans to delete those hidden pages form the Orbi UI in the future. They were unsure if the QOS settings that I changed would contiue to take effect after Netgear deletes those pages.

I honestly do not have a lot of fatih in those answers. Until I hear from one of the technicians who actuallys works on the Orbi or Netgear releases an offical statement I won't know what to think about this issue.

Also, as far as "Dynamic QOS" on the Orbi if you type in this adress once you are logged into your Orbi router, http://orbilogin.net//QOS_dynamic.htm, you can get to another apparently hidden page that apparently has setting options for Dynamic QOS. It seems that the Dynamic QOS is turned off by default on the Orbi if you belive what you see on that page. 

As I understood from what I have read elsewhere the Orbi Uses WMM for prioritizing traffic by default and that is the only type of QOS manamagement that is turned on by default for the Orbi routers. I had never read anywhere that the Orbi uses Dynamic QOS.

Do the Orbi routers use WMM or Dynamic QOS by default? Is there some offical documentation somewhere from Netgear that you can point to?

Message 5 of 10
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Hidden Orbi QOS settings. Do they work?

WMM differs from QoS. WMM is QoS for wireless devices only. 

 

I wouldn't be bothered by QoS, use it for what it is and don't read into it. It is was it is and for the Orbi system, it's meant to be simple as the Orbi is meant for simplistic use and users. If you want or need more advanced QOS features, then the Orbi may not be for you. You can always get you a router that has the QoS features you need and use the Orbi system in AP mode. 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.2.1(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v4.6.3.16(AP) & RBK752 v4.6.5.14
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, CBR750, RBK50(v22), SXR30(v110), R7000(v34), R7800(v84), R7960P(v82), EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v120) and WNHDE111
Message 6 of 10
Breggen
Star

Re: Hidden Orbi QOS settings. Do they work?

I am paying for 100Mps and get that give or take. The upload is typically around 12 mps, I forget what I am paying for on that.


Message 7 of 10
Breggen
Star

Re: Hidden Orbi QOS settings. Do they work?

I understand that "You can always get a router that has the QoS features you need and use the Orbi system in AP mode. " but it is disappointing that the Orbi does not have easily configurable QoSs settings. It is an expensive router.

The Orbi is the most powerful mesh router that is made. The Linksys Velop is probably in second place in terms of range for a triband mesh system. I wanted the most powerful mesh router system so I got the Orbi.

 Also, the Orbi has has more LAN ports on the router and the satellites than the Velop system does, and the Orbi has a USB port.

However the Velop has a much better app and a better browser management page. They have better UI's and more features, like QoS settings.

With the Velop app you can easily prioritize devices and in the browser management you can set a variety of QoS priorities.

The Velop app also tells you which satellite or router that each device is connected to and which band it is connected on (2.4 or 5). The Velop app has many other "advanced features" that can be set in the app. The Orbi app is close to useless.

QoS settings are an industry standard for most mid level routers in 2018. Orbi is a 370-1000+ dollar mesh system. For those prices it should include the features that are industry standard for even mid priced routers. Also, there is no reason that the Orbi app needs to suck as much as it does.

Netgear needs to hire the few more coders and technicians necessary in order to make a decent app and implement the expected features on the Orbi. The Orbi is a flagship product for them. They are a multi-national company worth more than a billion dollars.

If you google the problems that Orbi has had you will see that for a long time wired ethernet backhaul was either not implemented or not working correctly and the USB ports were not functional.  There were also many users who experienced connectivity issues for several versions of the firmware.  It took Netgear a long time, like more than a year, to fix these issues and turn on these promised features.

Imagine the cost involved in research and development and marketing and advertising for any new router or product being sold at this scale, much less one utilizing new tech like mesh networking.
What kind of dysfunctional corporate bureaucracy must be taking place in Netgear's management for them to highly damage the reputation of one of their flagship products by not giving it the support it needs after launch? 

Hire the people you need and stop ruining your own products!

Message 8 of 10
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Hidden Orbi QOS settings. Do they work?

Maybe NG will add more in. Who knows. Everyone has there own ideas of what should be in products. Thats fine and all, however NG drives the bus. There stuff.Maybe there not trying to follow industry standards as well. Maybe more about simplisitc use and most things being automatic. You have some people to blame as most average home users just want to hook something up and have it work wiht out much hassle to fiddle with the internals. NG isn't the only one to take this into account in some of there products.

 

Something you can post here about:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Idea-Exchange-For-Home/idb-p/idea-exchange-for-home

 

Good Luck.


@Breggen wrote:

I understand that "You can always get a router that has the QoS features you need and use the Orbi system in AP mode. " but it is disappointing that the Orbi does not have easily configurable QoSs settings. It is an expensive router.

The Orbi is the most powerful mesh router that is made. The Linksys Velop is probably in second place in terms of range for a triband mesh system. I wanted the most powerful mesh router system so I got the Orbi.

 Also, the Orbi has has more LAN ports on the router and the satellites than the Velop system does, and the Orbi has a USB port.

However the Velop has a much better app and a better browser management page. They have better UI's and more features, like QoS settings.

With the Velop app you can easily prioritize devices and in the browser management you can set a variety of QoS priorities.

The Velop app also tells you which satellite or router that each device is connected to and which band it is connected on (2.4 or 5). The Velop app has many other "advanced features" that can be set in the app. The Orbi app is close to useless.

QoS settings are an industry standard for most mid level routers in 2018. Orbi is a 370-1000+ dollar mesh system. For those prices it should include the features that are industry standard for even mid priced routers. Also, there is no reason that the Orbi app needs to suck as much as it does.

Netgear needs to hire the few more coders and technicians necessary in order to make a decent app and implement the expected features on the Orbi. The Orbi is a flagship product for them. They are a multi-national company worth more than a billion dollars.

If you google the problems that Orbi has had you will see that for a long time wired ethernet backhaul was either not implemented or not working correctly and the USB ports were not functional.  There were also many users who experienced connectivity issues for several versions of the firmware.  It took Netgear a long time, like more than a year, to fix these issues and turn on these promised features.

Imagine the cost involved in research and development and marketing and advertising for any new router or product being sold at this scale, much less one utilizing new tech like mesh networking.
What kind of dysfunctional corporate bureaucracy must be taking place in Netgear's management for them to highly damage the reputation of one of their flagship products by not giving it the support it needs after launch? 

Hire the people you need and stop ruining your own products!


 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.2.1(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v4.6.3.16(AP) & RBK752 v4.6.5.14
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, CBR750, RBK50(v22), SXR30(v110), R7000(v34), R7800(v84), R7960P(v82), EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v120) and WNHDE111
Message 9 of 10
Breggen
Star

Re: Hidden Orbi QOS settings. Do they work?

If anyone does go down this road of setting QoS priorities on these hidden pages it might be important to remember to set the MAC address of any Orbi satellites at the highest priority.

Even though the satellites supposedly have their own dedicated backhaul channel you can find them listed as one of the connected devices. In the Circle app they are bunched up in the same list as all the other devices and shows their MAC address just as it does with all the connected devices.
In the Orbi app they have their own page in the app; which only tells you that they are connected and gives no other info (pathetic).
And in the Orbi web login page they have their own separate row in the connected devices list and the status of the backhaul channel is described as "Good" or "Poor" or "None".

My one great fear with all of this is that turning on the QoS and setting priorities would somehow mess up the backhaul communication system.
If the Orbi app or web login page gave info about which band devices and satellites were connected to and at what speeds they connecting then that fear could be put to rest.

Message 10 of 10
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