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Forum Discussion
Orbi: We really need separate SSID for 2.4 Ghz and 5Ghz or speed is limited to less than 200 Mbps
TLDR: With Orbi, my 5Ghz capable devices are "forced" to connect to 2.4 Ghz most of the time, slowing down speed. Tested against 3 different routers and my 5Ghz capable can connect to 5Ghz network all the time.
I got the 3-pack Orbi from Costco and after numerous testing, ALL my devices are connecting to 2.4 Ghz MOST of the TIME rather than 5 Ghz. This slows down the transfer speed from 800 Mbps to a paltry 145 Mbps.
Unfortunately, since the Orbi does not allow separate SSID for 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz, I cannot "force" my device to connect only to 5Ghz to get better speed. This means that I have a $499 router system that mostly allow only 2.4 Ghz.
I previously have a Time Capsule and setup 2 separate SSID:
- devices capable of 5Ghz will ONLY connect to 5Ghz SSID (MacBook, iPhone, etc.)
- devices capable of ONLY 2.4 Ghz will connect to 2.4Ghz SSID (thermostate, etc.)
There was no changes on the setup or placement of my devices when I replace the Time Capsule with the Orbi:
1). Orbi is in the middle of apartment, same location as my Time Capsule
2). Laptops are in the same area as before (desk, room 1, etc.)
3). Other devices are in the same area as before (printer, camera, thermostat, etc.).
4). No new devices that can interference with Wifi signal
The ONLY changes is the Orbi Router and Satellite and now all my 5Ghz capable devices are connecting to 2.4 Ghz with Orbi.
I powered down Orbi, put my Time Capsule back and BAM!! I got 5Ghz connection again. For a separate testing, I bought the following:
- Netgear Nighthawk AC1900
- ASUS RTC3200
Setup both to have separate SSID and BAM! 5Ghz devices can connect to ONLY 5Ghz network.
I hope Orbi will change this in the new upgrade. Otherwise, I have no need for a $499 router that "force" 5Ghz devices to connect to 2.4 Ghz network.
84 Replies
FYI, for MacBook, you can see which channel it connect to by holding the Alt/Option button and click on the wireless icon in the menubar. A dropdown menu will pop-up and you can see something like the attached screenshot.
As you can see, my MacBooks, which are 5Ghz capable devices, ONLY connect to 2.4 Ghz and I only get 104 Mbps speed. This is when the MacBooks are only 5-10 feets away from the Orbi router and/or Orbi satellites.
Macbooks will keep whatever WiFi connection they have, and will NOT switch, until the RSSI goes below -75 dB. So, if you ever connected to a 2.4 GHz channel, your Macbook will stick on 2.4 GHz regardless of how close you move to the router/satellite, unless the 2.4 signal drops below -75. Turn WiFi off then on again, and you should connect to the strongest 5 Ghz source.
You haven't said how you are testing the speed, or between what two points. A throughput of 104 Mbps is exactly what I get between two wirless Macbooks on 5 GHz, using Orbi or using Ubiquiti APs. Your speed doesn't seem unusual.
I get ~200 Mbps max between a Macbook and a wired computer on 5 GHz Throughput between wireless devices is about half that.
st_shaw wrote:Macbooks will keep whatever WiFi connection they have, and will NOT switch, until the RSSI goes below -75 dB. So, if you ever connected to a 2.4 GHz channel, your Macbook will stick on 2.4 GHz regardless of how close you move to the router/satellite, unless the 2.4 signal drops below -75. Turn WiFi off then on again, and you should connect to the strongest 5 Ghz source.
Yes, I am aware about automatic switching at the OS level (OSX, Windows, etc.).
However, I want to be able to have certain 5Ghz devices (MacBook, iPhones, camera, etc.) to always connect to 5Ghz because **I** know I will have good 5Ghz signal at the placement of my devices. As mentioned above, I have Time Capsule and I have this for years with separate SSID for 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz and I know I have great speed when my devices connect to the 5Ghz SSID when I placed my device.
I just did a backup of 3 GB files using Orbi (same SSID for 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz) and comparing the log files from prior backup when connected to Time Capsule wifi (separate SSID for 2.4 Ghz and 5Ghz), I see this:
- Time Capsule: 3.21 GB in 10:45 minutes (5 Ghz)
- Orbi: 3.07 GB in 36:23 minutes (2.4 Ghz)
The Orbi one is when my speed is at 104 Mbps (see screenshot attached).
I just did a turn-on-turn-off of my MacBook wireless 5 TIMES before it connect to Orbi 5Ghz and once connected, I got much faster speed (see 2nd screenshot attached). As you can see, the 5Ghz is almost 3 TIMES faster than 2.4Ghz.
As you can see with the above screenshot, both Orbi 2.4 Ghz and 5Ghz have similar RSSI (-41 and -49). Theorotically, I SHOULD still connect to the 5Ghz, wouldn't it? Unfortunately, it did not.
Remember, with separate SSID with my Time Capsule and forcing my 5Ghz device to connect to 5Ghz SSID, I can maintain consistent connection and speed on 5Ghz for years. I also tested with newly bought Netgear Nighthawk AC1900 and ASUS RTC3200 and separate SSID and I get the same result.
This is why I want to have separate SSID so I can force my device to connect to 5Ghz and not rely on OS auto-switching. I also notice that relying on OS switching often result in the device stuck with the lower speed. E.g. if I come back home, my iPhone will beon 2.4 Ghz because it has the longer distance than 5Ghz, but then I'll get stuck with 2.4 Ghz inside the house until I turn off and turn on my iPhone.
I don't know if this is a technical limitation with the Orbi hardware, but will be great if we can have separate SSID as an option.
- There has also got to be some collisions etc of bouncing between satellites and router when you have 3 in a space that can be easily occupied by just the Orbi router. Maybe reducing the transmit power on the satellites can help but I doubt it since the coverage area is so small at 1200 sq feet and the router by itself capabale of handling 2000 sq feet.
Seperate SSID though means that the Orbi solution is not for the OP at this time.
Lots of computers and laptops on a small house. Maybe lots of those are stationary and 5ghz would be fine. In my testing I find 5ghz can be sometimes problematic for things like my mobile device since I am constantly moving in and around the house. - I will be curious to see the results with only the router and no satellites powered on. I wonder if you will get 100% then while still most likely having no dead spots due to the size of your apartment ..unless you have unusual wall placement/composition for transmission from one side of 1200 sq ft to the other.
cue003 wrote:
I will be curious to see the results with only the router and no satellites powered on. I wonder if you will get 100% then while still most likely having no dead spots due to the size of your apartment ..unless you have unusual wall placement/composition for transmission from one side of 1200 sq ft to the other.It appears the OP did this test. See post #15. That result, and the more recent result with all three Orbi units ON, had the same outcome--the Macbooks spontaneoulsy switched from 5 GHz to 2.4 GHz. The only way this would happen is if the 5 GHz signal was temorarily interrupted. This would indicate there is sporadic interference on the 5 GHz band at his location. The OP has not told us yet if he has any potential interfering devices, or if he did a channel scan to detect interference from nearby APs.
Separate SSID for 2.4 and 5GHz channel. I remeber this one. Back in the days when larger hardisk came out everybody had to partition their super large disk into an operation system partition, a data partition and a few other partition as we just couldn't comprehend having so much space and we needed to be able to tell what data was going where of course. As we all know this ended after a while when we ran into problems that we had heaps of space in our data partition but our operating system partition was full to the brink and we had to completely format the hardisk to change it all around.
SSID separation is obsolete, though. It's still being used today and most of wireless router/AP support this today.
You are comparing apple and orange between SSID separation and HDD partition.
Hey guys, just want to give a quick update.
After testing for a looong time, I still believe that having a separate SSID as an option will be beneficial for some people (like me).
I have tried disabling one satellite and even both satellites and there are STILL times where my MacBooks will connect to 2.4 Ghz. The MacBooks (3 of them) are located in the same place for weeks and they connect to 5Ghz and then switched to 2.4 Ghz automatically. When it does connect to 2.4 Ghz, it will stay connected to that. It will not connect back to 5Ghz and I had to turn off and on the Wifi in order to connect to 5Ghz.
This is where the MacBooks are stationary and happened with 2 satellites, 1 satellites and finally just the main router (no satellites).
When it connect to 2.4 Ghz, the fastest speed I get is 2~ MB/s. If I am connected to 5Ghz, I consistently get 8 MB/s.
Hi,
As it has been stated a few different times already, once the MacBook connects at 2.4Ghz, unless it drops below -75 dBm, it will NOT reconnect (or even attempt) to reconnect at 5Ghz, or even search for a closer/faster satellite for that matter. This is how macOS is currently designed, you can find the full details at: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT206207
The bigger question that everyone is trying to help you with, is why is it dropping to 2.4Ghz in the first place. Typically when it is very random like it currently seems to be (after you have reset your Orbi hardware) it could be due to something as silly as a microwave being turned on that is causing the 5Ghz network to not be strong enough for a moment in time and the MacBook is switching to the 2.4ghz band. Then as explained above, the 2.4Ghz network is strong enough that the system will not switch back automaticly becuse it doesn't drop below -75 dBm. So you will have to manaully turn off WiFi, and turn it back on.
I like to use the app, WiFi Explorerm to help me see what is going on within my network. As I do live in a concrete built condo, with lots of neightbors that have lots of different WiFi setups, let alone the wireless devices in my house... :)
Uplink01 wrote:Hi,
As it has been stated a few different times already, once the MacBook connects at 2.4Ghz, unless it drops below -75 dBm, it will NOT reconnect (or even attempt) to reconnect at 5Ghz, or even search for a closer/faster satellite for that matter. This is how macOS is currently designed, you can find the full details at: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT206207
The bigger question that everyone is trying to help you with, is why is it dropping to 2.4Ghz in the first place. Typically when it is very random like it currently seems to be (after you have reset your Orbi hardware) it could be due to something as silly as a microwave being turned on that is causing the 5Ghz network to not be strong enough for a moment in time and the MacBook is switching to the 2.4ghz band. Then as explained above, the 2.4Ghz network is strong enough that the system will not switch back automaticly becuse it doesn't drop below -75 dBm. So you will have to manaully turn off WiFi, and turn it back on.
I like to use the app, WiFi Explorerm to help me see what is going on within my network. As I do live in a concrete built condo, with lots of neightbors that have lots of different WiFi setups, let alone the wireless devices in my house... :)Yes, I understand. I read every single post and tried disabling the the satellite. Why is it dropping to 2.4 Ghz? From what I've tested so far, from turning off one satellite to keeping the same MacBook in the same place, I have no clue. One thing for sure is that with my old Time Capsule and other routers that support frequency separation, my MacBooks stay connected to 5 Ghz all the time.
With multiple MacBooks and different routers tested (refer to my previous posts) which have dual SSID, so far only Orbi the one that won't hold to 5Ghz. If Orbi have dual SSID, maybe I can test that.
- Yeah, I am not sure what is going on. Could be my Orbi specifically or the wireless environment.
What I see is that my MacBooks, which have been stationary and happily connected to the Orbi at 5Ghz, will drop down to 2.4 Ghz and stay there. This is over a few weeks of testing.
With my Time Capsule, the MacBooks will probably experience the same thing but since I configured it to only connect to 5Ghz, it'll stay connected to that.
For now, I just reboot the MacBooks.I hate to ask the obvious question, but have you opened a support case with Apple or consulted their forums?
Rodney
If you insist on the 5Ghz band on a solution that does not support or have separate ssids then I suggest you turn off the 2.4GHz radio all together then there will be nothing connected to it since it won't exist.
Orbi just may not be the solution for you. If/when they come out with the seperate said then you can revisit.
cue003 wrote:
If you insist on the 5Ghz band on a solution that does NOT support or have separate ssids then I suggest you turn off the 2.4GHz radio all together then their will be nothing connected to it since it won't exist.
Orbi just may not be the solution for you. If/when they come out with the seperate said then you can revisit.I am not "insisting".
Through forums, people share their story, good or bad, and feature they want. If the manufacturer decided not to support a particular feature, so be it. However, my thread is FAR from "insisting".
Is it possible to turn off the 2.4GHz on the satellite? The main unit has the option to do so but satellite does not?
I do want to keep both 2.4 and 5Ghz because some of my devices only support 2.4 Ghz.
I completely agree with you ChuckieCheese I think that I should be able to choose whuch SSID I connect a device too. I like to have my AppleTV and my iPhone and Macbook only connected to 5ghz for the speed bump (which is massive) and then I connect all the IoT things to the 2.4 channel.
When I connect to the Orbi I get laggy HD video
When my phone is connected to the 2.4ghz on a different Netgear router, I get laggy HD video streaming on 100Mbps Fibre.
When I connect to the 5Ghz on the other Netgear router no laggy HD video
It would be amazing if I could choose which SSID I connect devices to. I can't turn off the 2.4ghz antenna because a lot of the IoT devices don't yet support 5Ghz
- Here this will end this thread to each their own. I personally don't have the need for this. Apple is just stupid :)
https://www.reddit.com/r/orbi/comments/5svxmy/howto_configure_different_ssids_for_24_and_5ghz/When troubleshooting, the ability to force certainconditions is key. Especially when troubleshooting a complex (and invisible) system like wireless. SSID separation is means to force a specific condition, thereby eliminating one or more variables. Whether it is best practice or not is a different discussion. And as every situation is different, best practices are not always best for every sitution.
Agreed. Once you need more options, then you really need them.
I think the next Orbi FW should have a few more options in the next FW not for the sake of having options, but because of issues suffered by typical Orbi customers: backhaul signal quality and diagnosis (tell if your units are too close, if your Satellites have a strong connection numerically), separated 2.4GHz/5GHz SSIDs, unified webpage to tell which clients are connecting to which unit (router vs satellite; instead of having to open another page), etc.
If these all need to be hidden inside a "debug mode", by all means. But, that's exactly it: once you need it, you really need it. Maybe these are the symptoms of a "our first WiFi system" by Netgear.
Got mine today and found out the hard way that there is not separate SSIDs for 2.4 and 5ghz. The router provided to me from ATT has this functionality. Not sure why this $350 replacement/upgrade does not. I'm inclined to retutn this. Thanks Netgear
yashart7 wrote:
Got mine today and found out the hard way that there is not separate SSIDs for 2.4 and 5ghz. The router provided to me from ATT has this functionality. Not sure why this $350 replacement/upgrade does not. I'm inclined to return this. Thanks Netgear
its because it designed to automate your wifi environment both in AP steering and band steering , you will find most of the mesh systems work this way as to get the best wifi coverage is to be able to balance those steerings automatically , if you didnt do this the steering would be compromised and make the orbi less effectual
your clients should be smart enough to connect to the 5 gig band if its available and most clients you can force them to connect to one band or another
yashart7 wrote:Got mine today and found out the hard way that there is not separate SSIDs for 2.4 and 5ghz. The router provided to me from ATT has this functionality. Not sure why this $350 replacement/upgrade does not. I'm inclined to retutn this. Thanks Netgear
A single SSID is required for clients to seamlessly roam between access points. Setup this way, your device will switch from router to satellite, and also from 5 GHz to 2.4 GHz when you get out of range of 5 GHz. This is how most enterprise systems are configured.
What are you doing that requires separate SSIDs?
