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Forum Discussion
Untag VLAN
Looking for some guidance on "untag VLAN" as suggested by Google. I have an ISP router from Movistar with a Fiber Optic connection and they have suggested I do not use Bridge mode on their router...
bigbadger51 wrote:
I have an ISP router from Movistar with a Fiber Optic connection and they have suggested I do not use Bridge mode on their router as its likely to cause some issues.
The question is what exactly you intend to do, and why. much more than the how.
bigbadger51 wrote:
ISP Router has 3 VLANS 6, 3, 2
2 for IPTV
6 for Data
3 for VOIP
These are the VLAN Telefonica is using on their Movistar service to carry the three services on dedicated networks from their infrastructure to your router WAN/Internet port.
The router does cleverly NAT and merge the three services to one LAN, so you can easily plug/WiFi associate computers, mobiles at all to access the Internet, so the IPTV boxes can be connected to the same LAN to browse the IPTV services, and watch TV either live via ICMP multicast (saving a lot of bandwidth on their infrastructure) as well as time-shift / on-demand by UDP based unicast. The same applies to your LAN, permitting the LAN switches are supporting IGMPv3 multicast. Otherwise each live stream is flooded all over your LAN from L2 switches and wireless access points or WiFi systems - something you don't want. For the Movistar VoIP service, there are no VoIP network adapters, the VoIP service is terminated on the Movistar router and made available on a two wire telephone port.
Said that:
1. For the Movistar VoIP phone service, you need their router (to what I'm aware of from what I'm aware working on behalf of a Telefonica supplier for these Movistar service, and their routers aka. the CPE (customer premise equipment).
2. No VLAN from the WAN does leave the router, these don't exist on your LAN. Internet and IPTV is direct on the same LAN, the one Internet IP subnet.
Keep in mind virtually all triple-play service providers use the very similar design, differences only exists in some details only, like VLANs used on the WAN, how the VLAN(s) are encapsulated and the VoIP part is carried. Here in Switzerland, Swisscom does even run some BGP session for the VoIP traffic. When I remember right, Telefonica makes use PPP variant to carry the Internet data, and is used for the CPE user account authentication. This applies to both Fiber and xDSL service lines.
This is why your ISP says clear not to use bridge mode. First part is that i don't know what happens with the VoIP telephony traffic of the CPE is set to bridge mode, telephony might be no longer available.
bigbadger51 wrote:
i bought a Netgear managed switch GS305E
One could fan-out the Data and IPTV VLANs on an internal VLAN capable infrastructure - even by removing the CPE, and connect the fiber direct to a managed switch (configurable simple switches like the Netgear Plus can't be considered secure enough I'm afraid). this will require a complete VLAN capable infrastructure making up two networks and IP subnets on the physical LAN, an IPv4/IPv6 capable router for the internet part. This does limit many more features, like having one LAN/IP-subnet between all devices, so for example Internet-connected mobiles, tablets, computers, can for example not see and use the capable IPTV boxes for the powerful features being able to use DLNA or Google Cast, for example cast (think some "send-to") a YouTube video direct to a select TV box, and then control the playback with pause, FF, REV, continue later, ...
bigbadger51 wrote:
I am now swimming in deep water!
Very deep waters, no light, high pressure on your body ...
Ok - the reason for the untag VLAN was a google solution. I have a Movistar fibre optic router with a 1gb connection. The house is pretty big. I liked the idea of Google Mesh network with points that act like Alexa. So I got two google Home Nest mesh routers and three points. However the performance ,checking with speedtest is not great. Google support suggested Bridge Mode for the router but Movistar say that is not a good move as their router only acts in like half bridge mode and still uses VLAN's . So Google suggested getting a managed switch, which is where Netgear come in, to untag the VLAN and installing it between the Movistar router and the Google Nest router. So is the untagging useful and will it give better performance on the network. I should also say their is no fixed telephone requirement nor any Movistar TV. There are Android based IPTV boxes and a couple of Macs and phones. These devices are spread around the house and basement.
bigbadger51 wrote:
Ok - the reason for the untag VLAN was a google solution.
Strongly doubt they have an idea what is going on in front (WAN: Internet, Phone, Movistar TV) and then on the LAN side of these routers.
bigbadger51 wrote:
I have a Movistar fibre optic router with a 1gb connection. The house is pretty big. I liked the idea of Google Mesh network with points that act like Alexa. So I got two google Home Nest mesh routers and three points.
So only one Google Mesh Router direct connected by Gigabit Ethernet, while everything else is supposed to be magically wireless or mesh. And everything in a bigger house. Must be fun. Reads good from the marketing prospective, however I have my doubts.
bigbadger51 wrote:
However the performance ,checking with speedtest is not great.
The only point you will get good performance are the LAN port(s) on the Movistar CPE. Run your speed test on that LAN port using e.g. a PC or a MAC with an Ethernet adapter connected.
bigbadger51 wrote:
So Google suggested getting a managed switch, which is where Netgear come in, to untag the VLAN and installing it between the Movistar router and the Google Nest router.
So these Google supporters seriously think there re tagged frames on what makes up your home LAN serving Internet - but you don't have to configure anything on the connecting computers (Mac or PC)? The answer is: There is no VLAN tagging for what makes up the Internet access. What is coming in on the fiber for the Internet data on VLAN 6 is made available conveniently in IPv4 NAT and a IPv6 net for all your Internet access devices.
Anything that is flowing over this magic Mesh, a little bit faster between the Nest router and the second Nest router configured as a point will flow over a AC 4x4 2200 connection. Anything that is flowing to the Nest Points and your wireless clients will go twice over a AC 2x2 1200 WiFi mesh link. In case there are walls, multiple walls, the performance will be reduced massively. You seriously expect performance near to the Gigabit Ethernet link speed? Keep on dreaming.
bigbadger51 wrote:
So Google suggested getting a managed switch, which is where Netgear come in, to untag the VLAN and installing it between the Movistar router and the Google Nest router.
So you believe think there are tagged frames for the Internet part on your LAN? The config you are behind is this: Configure an trunk port for VLAN 6 Tagged, and no other VLAN memberships to connect one of the Movistar LAN port, and one access port on the switch to VLAN 6, untagged, PVID 6. to connect one of your test Mac or PC, and later to connect the Nest router WAN/Internet port. I would bet there won't be any Internet traffic available. Yalla yalla.
bigbadger51 wrote:
So is the untagging useful and will it give better performance on the network. I should also say their is no fixed telephone requirement nor any Movistar TV. There are Android based IPTV boxes and a couple of Macs and phones. These devices are spread around the house and basement.
More dreaming. Any tech references on such a config please? Granted, you can forget about the two VLAN 2 IPTV for the Movistar TV and the VLAN 3 for VOIP if these paid Movistar services are note used.
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