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Although automatic firmware updates should probably be the default, there should be a method (easily accessible in the firmware settings) to disable firmware auto-updates.
The foregoing would allow those experiencing issues with the latest firmware to remain on an earlier version.
82 Comments
Looks like users got there wish for Orbi:
Disble Auto Update in the UI now:
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/New-Orbi-RBR50-RBS50-Firmware-Version-2-3-1-48/m-p/1739568/highlight/true#M59640"Orbi Router Auto Firmware Update" Enable/Disable button could show up in Orbi UI someday, hopefully in the near future.
Here is a picture:
AAAAAARRRGGGGHHHHH. F*%&ING NETGEAR!! After running perfectly for months I come home to find half of the system crippled again - the culprit, "upgraded firmware". I'm now running 2.2.1.210 and _NOTHING_ I can do can get the satellite unit to work FFS. I am FED UP with NETGEAR and their incredible disregard for their customers. I literally hate this product for the way it breaks itself by stealth. The customer service department should be ashamed that they haven't made even a semblance of an appearance on this thread. Spleen vented - off to try to see if I can remember how to roll-back (and upgrade!) the firmware.
This is a valid solution that I have come up with that has worked for various model of Orbi. Please have a look at my discussion thread (linked below) for disabling automatic updates:
*Also, just wanted to let everyone know that Netgear has finally listened to us in regards to this and will be disabling forced updates in the upcoming Orbi firmware versions (after 2.2.1.210)! A Netgear represenative informed me of this just today!
**Orbi is a great mesh networking system in terms of hardware. Netgear just really needs to focus on their firmware and build a stable one to run these Orbi units.
Hope this helps!
I'll propse an alternative to "disable auto-update".
It would be good if Orbi was smart enough to refuse a particular firmware version if the administrator downgrades from that version.
For example: fw .210 sucks, so I downgraded to .146. I wish the system were smart enough to automatically know to not auto-upgrade back to .210, and instead wait until a post-.210 firmware became available.
(I also wish that Netgear weren't pushing something as buggy as .210 in production. Given the magnitude of the problems, it ought to have been pulled from whatever system is being queried by Orbis looking for updates.)
Same here, tried the nvram method and worked for a week...and yet my ORBI still auto updated to V2.2.1.210 and causing me almost daily random reboots.
NetGear: Please let me disable the auto update! I want to stick to a firmware that is stable.
Yes, the instructions for setting the nvram entries were ones I tried. It seemed to work for a while, but I've definitely had a firmware update pushed on me since then. Oh well.
Supposedly, following these instructions will allow you to disable automatic updates. It's not a function that's intended for consumer use, and I've never tried it, so try it at your own risk. You said you tried two suggested methods, and neither worked, so if this one is one you've already tried, sorry (I have no idea which methods you've tried so far).
My contention is that the vast majority of people that do encounter any problems with their Orbi system won't even make it as far as this community page.
This is true, which is why they need to do a better job testing the firmware before pushing it out to users. But if they make it too easy to opt-out of automatic updates, too many people will opt out, either by default, or at the first problem, potentially leaving their Orbis frozen in time with whatever firmware version they had when the user opted out, never to receive another update again. That's not a good scenario, both for the general health of the internet, but also even from Netgear's standpoint. If Netgear is patching security issues as they arise, and pushing updates, but people have disabled automatic updates, and they're having issues, Netgear will still get the blame, even though it would really be the users' faults.
Personally, I'd probably rather see fewer updates, but ones that have been rigorously tested and work as expected, though emergent security issues could result in prioritizing fixing an issue quickly with less concern for stability. Like, I realize Google is much bigger than Netgear, but I had a Nexus, and now a Pixel, and neither the OS upgrades nor the security updates ever broke anything as far as I recall. Maybe Netgear, rather than putting out so many models, needs to focus more on getting the firmware release process down, so they can have a few models with great firmware, rather than a bunch of models with ok firmware that could drag the whole Orbi brand down with a bad reputation.
Randomousity wrote: "But there is a way to disable automatic updates."
Really? I've tried two suggested methods and neither have worked, do you have any pointers to documentation on this? I think there are many people watching this thread that would be keen to review this information. I'm not a network engineer, but I was involved in the design of the debug and trace subsystem around the chipset inside this Orbi so I'm hoping any solution wouldn't be beyond me.
I understand your viewpoint - usually the system designers have a better handle on what's going to be the best firmware to have installed on that system - indeed, we always encourage our partners to update to the latest software whenever possible. My contention is that the vast majority of people that do encounter any problems with their Orbi system won't even make it as far as this community page. Those that have made it here will not find any "official" guidance - which I think is a poor show, and encourages suggestions such as blacklisting outbound access to the Netgear update pages from one's network (an ugly solution I was reluctant to try until now but I'm getting that desperate...).
We might be at loggerheads: Question: "What's my rationale for opting out of a firmware push that's *guaranteed* to be a superset of the previous firmware in terms of functionality and stability"? - Answer: none.
Question: "What's your rationale for expecting me to accept pushed firmware updates from a company that has a very poor track record when it comes to delivering consistent reliability and quality in its firmware?" - I have no control over the quality and testing of their firmware, sadly it looks like that they don't have the best handle on it either - it seems that the _least_ they could do would be to allow me to opt out of the "gamble" the end users currently have to take when getting this firmware pushed. I can contrive multiple scenarios where it would be reasonable not to have firmware updates pushed but I'm not currently one of those use cases - I just want a simple home network system to work reliably. Currently Netgear are failing me badly and seem to have no interest in my feedback - this doesn't motivate me to help improve the quality of their firmware by doing testing in the field on software that hasn't been adequately QA'd at the engineering stage. :-(
But there is a way to disable automatic updates. It's sufficiently complicated to dissuade the average user, which is good, but also not really that complicated, so you don't have to be a network engineer to be able to do it yourself (I haven't done it, so ymmv). I would only say that the change, rather than being permanent, should be sunsetted. You can disable updates for, say, 60 days (or some other appropriate duration, given the frequency of updates), after which, the change is ineffective, and updates get applied again. Or, alternatively, you can basically blacklist a particular version (e.g., skip 2.2.1.210), but when a newer version comes out, that one gets applied.
Buggy updates are your problem (on a practical level, since you're the one who has to deal with reconfiguring everything, etc.) but unpatched routers can become everyone's problem (e.g., Mirai botnet hosts). Inevitably, what will happen is some users will disable automatic updates by default ("I'm special, and know what I'm doing, and will manually update things myself when I have the time, the updates are important, and I determine they're either stable enough or I can live with the problems they cause"). Some may follow though, and others will take the "if it aint' broke, don't fix it" worldview. Then, there will be those who are fine with auto-updating, until it breaks something, then they will disable it, maybe promise they're re-enable it later, but some of them will also turn into "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" types. Then there are those that will just stay with whatever the default is, in this case, auto-updates. The problem is, there's no guarantee the people in the first two categories will actually follow through with either manually updating or re-enabling automatic updates. In fact, there's probably a high likelihood that they will disable auto-updating, and will never re-enable it, perpetuating the problem automatic updates were meant to address.
And, again, properly tested updates would avoid this problem, even when they're pushed to users. If they only pushed properly functioning updates, what would be your rationale for demanding to be able to opt out?
