Netgear D1500 as base station? Limited Wireless Repeating function?

[timtom123]

Hi, I recently purchased Netgear D1500/N300 Modem with Router. My ISP provides ADSL line, hence I opted for this model. To my shock there is no WPS button and the software does not have any option to configure it as a base station. I also have a Netgear JNR1010/N150 router which has the capability to be configured either as a base station or as a repeater. My aim was to extend the wifi range. I cannot connect my ADSL line in JNR1010 as it has no modem. Why the D1500 has been designed to be act as repeater alone, when it has a modem in it? (http://kb.netgear.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/26900/~/d1500-faqs?cid=wmt_netgear_organic). Please suggest me to connect wirelessly D1500 (to be used as a base station) with JNR1010(to be used as a repeater). Also tell me if there is any option for secured encryption as I have learnt that wireless repeating function can only be used with no security or WEP. 

[TheEther · Accepted solution]

The D1500 looks to be an odd product with a poor, stripped-down featureset.  There's no way to set it up as a repeater base station.  To be frank, even if you could set it up, you wouldn't want to use it.  Netgear's repeater implementation has no support for WPA/WPA2 security.  Netgear's repeater feature is based on an old protocol called WDS (Wireless Distribution System).  This is not to be confused with WPS (Wi-Fi Protected Setup), which is different.  WDS was never properly standardized, so there is poor cross-vendor support.

What you really want to do is to dump the JNR1010 and get a proper range extender(*).  Modern range extenders do not use WDS.  Instead, they pretend to act as a regular Wi-Fi device to the router and perform magic (technically, they virtualize the MAC addresses of connected devices).  The router is none the wiser and can, therefore, act purely as a router without any need to act as a base station repeater.

(*) If you are in a position to wire the JNR1010 to the D1500 via either Ethernet, Powerline or coax, then you can use the JNR1010 as an Access Point.  This is far more efficient and faster than using a repeater or range extender.  At least twice as fast, in fact.

[TheEther · Accepted solution]

The D1500 looks to be an odd product with a poor, stripped-down featureset.  There's no way to set it up as a repeater base station.  To be frank, even if you could set it up, you wouldn't want to use it.  Netgear's repeater implementation has no support for WPA/WPA2 security.  Netgear's repeater feature is based on an old protocol called WDS (Wireless Distribution System).  This is not to be confused with WPS (Wi-Fi Protected Setup), which is different.  WDS was never properly standardized, so there is poor cross-vendor support.

What you really want to do is to dump the JNR1010 and get a proper range extender(*).  Modern range extenders do not use WDS.  Instead, they pretend to act as a regular Wi-Fi device to the router and perform magic (technically, they virtualize the MAC addresses of connected devices).  The router is none the wiser and can, therefore, act purely as a router without any need to act as a base station repeater.

(*) If you are in a position to wire the JNR1010 to the D1500 via either Ethernet, Powerline or coax, then you can use the JNR1010 as an Access Point.  This is far more efficient and faster than using a repeater or range extender.  At least twice as fast, in fact.

[timtom123]

Thanks a lot Sir. Actually I had an idea of doing that which you have mentioned in the last para of your reply. However, yesterday I managed to extend the wifi range without running a long ethernet cable throughout my house. Fortunately I had an old dual band wireless netgear router in addition to D1500 and JNR1010, which was capable of supporting WDS(both BS and RP). So I carefully assigned IP's and pool of IPs to each router and I disabled "Use as DHCP server" in other two routers except the D1500.  Now I connected D1500 and JNR1010 using a 0.5m ethernet cable. Both operating at different channel and different SSID. Now I made JNR1010 as base station and the old dual band router as repeater using WDS. Ofcouse, these two with same SSID and same channel. Since the old dual channel did not have an option of WEP at all, I selected the encryption to be none and unchecked SSID broadcast, so that only people who know my SSID can connect to the network. As I have mentioned above that D1500 is assigned with different SSID and channel. Now when I'm on a video call and move around, it easily handovers between the basestation and repeater. Eventhough the D1500 is placed nearby JNR1010 it dosent waste time in authenticating and connecting to D1500,instead it toggles between the old dual band router(RP) and JNR1010(BS),  as these two has same encryption and lies in the same channel. At the end of the day I thanked God. Now both unused routers became useful in extending the wifi signal. All router companies should develop a flagship model including all features including modem, wps, bluetooth etc in it with much more security option. Its really a marketing technique and lag in research to confuse the customers with N number of models without mentioning the approximate coverage area and we are forced to buy range extenders even for medium sized home.

[TheEther]

I'm sorry to say but hiding the SSID does not truly hide it.  It is still being broadcast.  Any hacker worth his salt can use freely available tools to sniff your SSID out of the air and gain access to the unencrypted Wi-Fi network between your base station and repeaters.  You may have something that works but you don't have something that is secure.

[timtom123]

Yep. I agree with you. Hackers will always hack irespective of how hard the encryption is. The wifi signal fades away completely near my compound wall around my house. I had a plan to use WEP but unfortunately the old dual band netgear router has no such encryption option and thats why I was forced to select none eventhough the JNR1010 supports WEP. This is due to the fact that WDS has a limitation that we should use same SSID, same channel and same encryption(none or WEP). Thats why I said modem/router manufacturers should implement a reliable secured communication from advanced research techniques. Far way to go. 

[TheEther]

WEP is insecure. It can be trivially defeated.

You may think your signal is undetectable but someone could have more sensitive equipment than you. I can pick up my Wi-Fi signal a significant way down the street from my house. How confident are you that your signal is too weak to be picked up? Security by obscurity is no security at all.

Manufacturers have already implemented a vastly more secure replacement for WDS in their range extenders.

Anyway, it's your network.

[timtom123]

As name suggests WEP is developed initially for wired routing. Then DES came which can be easily hacked using softwares by trying combinations of 56-bit key. Now 128-bit encryption (AES) is currently being used which is also paired with other encryprion techniques to make it more stronger. Basically no smart phones such as an iphone 7 or any other gadgets by default shows an hidden network except laptop with latest OS or intrusion apps. I hope no one will be so keen to carry a device and surf around my walls. In todays scenario air is filled with signal everywhere. So a weak signal will be considered as a noise by strong receiver. It requires special antennas and softwares to grab the weak signal and decrypt mine particularly. Thats why all manufactures recommend to place the wifi range extender where we can receive 30-50% of actual signal. Because again marketing technique, they cannot provide a high dB antenna at affordable rate for commercial purposes. Again if we have a really big house we are forced to buy two to three extenders atleast. I don't know why manufacturers still havent rolled out an update for firmware so that the same technique can be used while implementing WDS in old routers, since all routers are basically tranceivers.  In your case you should be using a high gain antenna in your home wifi device, also the point at which you mentioned "down the street" should be less than 100m(maximum wifi range for outdoors). So it will not be applicable in my case where a medium sized home is placed at the centre of a large garden which is actually a beach house.I really have this long time doubt like, how people find the SSID of a weak signal of a hidden network, provided I have changed the IP address of the router and log in details of router configuration. 

[TheEther]

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@timtom123 wrote:

As name suggests WEP is developed initially for wired routing. Then DES came which can be easily hacked using softwares by trying combinations of 56-bit key. Now 128-bit encryption (AES) is currently being used which is also paired with other encryprion techniques to make it more stronger. Basically no smart phones such as an iphone 7 or any other gadgets by default shows an hidden network except laptop with latest OS or intrusion apps. I hope no one will be so keen to carry a device and surf around my walls.

I suggest you read up on Wardriving.  You don't think it happens?  Maybe you didn't hear about this.  

So a weak signal will be considered as a noise by strong receiver. It requires special antennas and softwares to grab the weak signal and decrypt mine particularly. Thats why all manufactures recommend to place the wifi range extender where we can receive 30-50% of actual signal. Because again marketing technique, they cannot provide a high dB antenna at affordable rate for commercial purposes.  

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It's not purely marketing technique.  There are federal regulations that limit the effective radiated power.

Again if we have a really big house we are forced to buy two to three extenders atleast. I don't know why manufacturers still havent rolled out an update for firmware so that the same technique can be used while implementing WDS in old routers, since all routers are basically tranceivers.   

What technique are you referring to?

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In your case you should be using a high gain antenna in your home wifi device, also the point at which you mentioned "down the street" should be less than 100m(maximum wifi range for outdoors). So it will not be applicable in my case where a medium sized home is placed at the centre of a large garden which is actually a beach house.I really have this long time doubt like, how people find the SSID of a weak signal of a hidden network, provided I have changed the IP address of the router and log in details of router configuration. 

Changing your router's IP address has no effect on the discoverability of your SSID.  Here's a straightforward article on the myth of hiding the SSID as well as a few other myths.

I will pose a final, semi-rhetorical question.  Are you confident enough to run your entire Wi-Fi network without security?  You seem to be banking on the improbability that someone would hack your open network.  Why even take that chance?  It doesn't cost a lot of money to secure your network to a reasonable level.